The many sins of the Netflix era

[thatvinylgeek]

A post in the WM41 thread sparked a thought in my brain...be warned "it was better in my day" type post coming up.

I am not even 100% sure where I am going with this, so hold on tight...but do we think Netflix could actually end up turning people away and being slightly detrimental to the product. I can probably answer my own question and say "no" but I am going to moan anyway. Also some of this may not be exclusively down to Netflix input, but it all sort of falls under that umbrella so I am lumping it together.

After watching mania this weekend with my kids (11yr olds) they started to ask questions about WWE that they have never asked before and I can't help think they wouldn't have asked them a couple of years ago, although time flies so some of this may have been around for a bit longer. 

Things like why is the mat now COVERED in sponsors so much so it's distracting? Why was a random man with a random title advertising a random video game to open Wrestlemania? Why do the commentators keep talking about products we can't buy and the sound cutting out when they do? Why is this match "presented by" xx? Who is that celebrity they are showing in the crowd now?

It is getting to the point where you can't go 5 mins without something that is nothing to do with actual wrestling being mentioned or shown...he's some people who are in a feud, they hate each other, they are fighting over a coveted prize...oh by the way don't forget to buy some wet wipes....did you see that superplex! 

Then away from the actual shows there is just SO MUCH random content on any and everything they can think of. Granted there was a lot when we had the network, but it felt at least like it was more aimed at the hardcore fans as it was on a specialist service. However, now it is on Netflixstergram it is just there..all the time...drip fed into you, via endless doomsday device scrolling (see what I did there ?), we have pre-shows, post-shows, highlight reels, viral moments, worked shoot press conferences and who knows what else. We are constantly told that we should just enjoy it, and that also a lot of it is "for the kids", but it so hard to enjoy it when they seem constantly determined to break the immersion.

My kids want to watch a baddie and a goodie wrestle, they don't want to watch a documentary which is literally showing the show being written and talking about how people in the ring are not really hurt and just selling...yes they know wrestling is planned, but they still ask me from time to time "do you think these two actually like each other in real life". I know they don't HAVE to watch these things, but even the fact they are constantly advertised is insufferable.

People love (maybe a strong word) going to see a panto at christmas, but noone wants to watch Margaret try to direct Puss in Boots for weeks on end before hand, and see the cast shout at Neil every week for forgetting to bring the rich tea again! They just want to go to the show, pay £20 for a flashing LED genie lamp and shout "he's behind you" whilst stuffing haribo into their mouths.

Anyhoo like I said, I didn't really know where I was going, other than I think a lot of what we are getting at the moment is "too much" and they are at a risk of over saturating their core fanbase and turning them towards other companies who focus more on the in ring and less on the commercial gains and business partners. Maybe the fact that AEW has now ran longer that Nitro is testament to that, maybe it's not.

For everything Netflix has given us, it feels like they just might be taking away the main thing about this crazy sport we love, which is the little bit of magic and pretence that even as a 43 year old dad of 2 I can get lost in for a few hours!

Thoughts?

[DavidB6937]

I don't see documentaries and stuff like that as an issue whatsoever. They've existed over the years and they've never been a problem. Watch them or don't.

Same with adverts and sponsors and whatever else. They exist fine in UFC and in other sports. I would imagine very few people will turn away because of it.

So no, on the whole I think blaming them being on Netflix is the wrong approach really. It's a writing and booking issue not anything to do with where the product is airing.

[TheScarlettChad]

Your kids wouldn't be watching documentaries so why do they care? Also, kayfabe has been dead for yonks. Cena is doing neet and greets with fans as a heel. Don't know what Netflix has to do with it. 

[Ro_y Disco]

I don't think Netflix is the problem, I like a lot of the changes they made (or changes since the last time I watched) like the wrestlers arriving, the drone shots and the mat advertising. Some of the changes give more of a real sports feel, which is cool.

Even the celebrities in the crowd can be a nice addition if it's more organic. 

Unfortunately, WrestleMania went overkill on the advertising and celebrities.

I've felt burned out after Mania weekend before and taken a break for a bit, but this feels different. In the past, it's been an emotionally draining main event (like last year) or the disappointment of the outcome (Roman winning again). 

This time, I've realised that the product & booking hasn't changed and it's not the show for me.  The commentary is too loud and the matches are too sanitised & by the numbers. 

After the initial 2-3 week buzz of having WWE content available at my fingertips, I've gone back to barely watching anything and I think going forwards I'll probably go back to not watching at all. Which is mad, as all of the WWE for free on Netflix is such an amazing offer for a wrestling fan.

[garynysmon]

1 hour ago, thatvinylgeek said:

Why do the commentators keep talking about products we can't buy and the sound cutting out when they do? Why is this match "presented by" xx? Who is that celebrity they are showing in the crowd now?

In a world which feels increasingly smaller and where it can often seem that the western world has an almost uniform culture, there’s nothing like WWE Wrestlemania to show just how much American popular culture actually doesn’t cross the Atlantic.

We feel like we know all the American celebs and big companies, but basically since I started watching WWE, they always wheel out a load of celebs and American sport players that hardly anyone would have even heard of, ditto so many of the brands they shill.

I have no idea if WWE are even aware or care how much of their worldwide viewership doesn’t have a fucking clue who these people are, but I find it comforting if anything.

It would be like the World Cup Final having the bloke from the Go Compare adverts and that old woman from Bake Off coming out to wave just before kick off.

Edited April 21, 2025 by garynysmon

[TheScarlettChad]

Just now, garynysmon said:

In a world which feels increasingly smaller and where it can often seem that the western world has an almost uniform culture, there’s nothing like WWE Wrestlemania to show just how much American popular culture actually doesn’t cross the Atlantic.

We feel like we know all the American celebs and big companies, but basically since I started watching WWE, they always wheel out a load of celebs and American sport players that hardly anyone would have even heard of, ditto so many of the brands they shill.

I have no idea if WWE are even aware or care how much of their worldwide viewership doesn’t have a fucking clue who these people are, but I find it comforting if anything.

It would be good if they dubbed over the ads badly to shill UK products. "Cena vs Cody brought to you by....MCVITIES JAFFA CAKES!"

[Kamran]

1 hour ago, thatvinylgeek said:

Things like why is the mat now COVERED in sponsors so much so it's distracting? Why was a random man with a random title advertising a random video game to open Wrestlemania? Why do the commentators keep talking about products we can't buy and the sound cutting out when they do? Why is this match "presented by" xx? 

I think this is more to do with the new TKO ownership, they're doing everything to push revenues up for their shareholders. I agree with you that it's overkill but I can't see them reducing it as they'll always keep trying to make more money than the previous year.

Since the TKO takeover, they've not really had any real challenges with WWE, they took them over during their boom period, they said initially something along the lines of there was a lot more money to be made from WWE. It will be interesting to see how TKO react if there is a decline in viewership/ticket sales etc

 

[simonworden]

The WWE product is often behind the times in pop culture (eg: using Hendry a year after he went viral) however I think right now they are probably the most modern wrestling program in thier formatting.

The issues with the mass of sponsors, huge gaps for ads, product placement and celeb usage is horrendously jarring for those of us that have grown up as fans of the never stopping action they've had for decades. Having to wait 15 to 20 minutes for the next match while they talk about some random internet provider or isurance company then show some basketball player we've never heard of is totally frustrating and I totally get how it would be difficult for kids who want simplicity. 

However, I do wonder how many of WWE's current audience are distracted watchers, even through Mania. They've reduced WWE PPV's to 5 match cards with loads of guff not only because they can make loads of money from the ads but they can get away with it alltogether. Between all the stuff that does matter (and probably during) the majority of the audience are defaintely doing something else on another device. I imagine plenty of their viewers are happy just to tune into Friendface or whatever they're using for that time so putting on a match between two nothing midcarders would just be pointless anyway.

It's one of the reason (I think) that the commentary is so shouty and state the obvious at times, not that this wasn't happening before but it's certainly stuck around due to this. With that and announcing possibly notable celebs sitting in the crowed it's something to bring attention back to the show much in the same way I might say to my 3 year old "Oh look, big digger".

Everythings then chopped up into short form content and recyled to get as much out of it as you can. WWE is basically not a wrestling promotion in the way it was but a giant wrestling content mill. They'll have wrestler doing shopping livestreams on TikTok (or similar) shop soon I reckon. It's a possible reason to by AAA, colorful spotty shows that clipped up would draw attention online, get masked dude A, B or C over then pull them into a Raw or PPV for a match with Penta, Rey etc and bring viewers in. 

I'm not going to say this model is wrong in anyway. It's definately been influenced by TKO and Netflix though. 

From the OP, one thing I'm surprised they aren't doing yet is another bash at a kid friendly show in the same vein as Saturday Morning Slam with vignettes and matches aimed at the under 10 market, have Blippi and whoever else at ringside etc. It would give Triple H a chance to make even more belts. 

 

 

 

[thatvinylgeek]

@simonworden very succinct and I think you summed up pretty much how I was feeling.

As a service designer my job has evolved to the point now where we are designing for people who are going 5 other things at the same times, and maybe that is also what's going on here. Constant breaks and reminders, we're defintely living in the era of distraction media consumption.

That being said, I love the idea of a kid friendly show, even if it was mainly a highlights show with the odd match chucked in. My kids love wwe, but they don't have the energy or focus to watch 6 hours of programming a week.

A uk produces Soccer Saturday type format would be cool, have someone goofy hosting, bring in people for challenges and chats...I can dream

[The Gaffer]

Yeah, I find myself in agreement. 

Subjective lines can  be drawn in terms of a lot of this stuff slowly taking form for years - if not decades - pre Netflix and the fact that angles and matches can still run as good as anything they've ever come up with inside of this presentation, but the overall product's just incredibly jarring for me now with the coalescing of everything they've been preparing themselves for going into hyper gear around January. 

I'd argue the overall effect is the biggest presentational change since Raw became Raw is War in 1997 and set a seemingly permanent identikit into stone where wrestling - and specifically WWE wrestling - had crowd signs, cutaways, pyro, a vaguely industrial aesthetic and a big fuck off screen. 

I'm not joking or trying to be overly cynical when I say now that when I think of Raw my brain just goes "Pat McAfee. Prime Energy." The actual on topic content bits are the kid on the bus sitting behind you who is scrolling through reels. I don't even know what the theme song is for Raw right now. I'm not sure do they have one. Maybe it's just this anaemic in-house beat with some chump going "We're the strongest, we're the toughest, huh-yeah" whilst actors on the show walk down freshly prepared corridors in an arena that have been simulated to look even more like corridors in an arena. Or something. 

The big contradiction in this is that culturally WWE was still bigger during the Attitude Era, but hear me out: The whole time it still felt like a weirdo niche interest, and that was sort of cool. The signature at the start of the show hit and you knew you were going into this goofy private world for two hours. Now the signature hits and I'm going into a company's theme park of itself. HELLO, I'M TRIPLE H, WELCOME TO THE BEST THING EVER THAT WE'RE ALL A PART OF. Nevermind the third party advertising, it's constantly advertising and explaining itself to you. Like...non stop. The commentary functions as a sort of guided-tour earpiece that just never lets up. It's been X days since. This is X amount of time. X times back in this building. X amount of weeks since this senseless attack. X is sitting ringside enjoying the action. HELLO, I'M TRIPLE H, WE HAVE HISTORY TOO THOUGH. REMEMBER THE WAR BETWEEN STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN AND BRET HART? THAT WAS THE SAME COMPANY SO IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW STILL DURING THIS MOMENT WE'RE ALL A PART OF! And on. And on. WWE as a show about wrestlers getting together to hash out their issues every week never seems to get going because WWE as a show endlessly pushing itself out of the way to present itself to you as WWE never lets up. 

I promise I've not lost it, that's just how trying to watch it feels to me. I know I can look up clips. Even the clips seem to have some of this energy now and - besides - I want to watch a show. That's sort of the idea for me. 

And yes, it's exactly what they're going for and it's working for a lot of their KPIs. I'm as off the ride as I've ever been though. Checked out some stuff on 'Mania week, haven't watched 'Mania, not been arsed looking up Raw. Never thought it'd come but I know what it feels like now. Feels like nothing, really. It's great! This all sounds horribly negative but there's other stuff out there. Just had time on my hands to ramble on the above this morning. 

 

[LaGoosh]

Excellently put Gaffer and I had very similar feelings when I watched a few episodes of Raw/SD last year and any stuff I've seen since. Ignoring the fact that all the wrestling and promos were just absolutely shockingly shit and some of the worst I've ever seen the overriding feeling I had watching them (and any of the clips I have seen since) is that this is a company obsessed with worshipping itself and its corporate symbols/ideology. The WWE itself (and Triple H as the face of the company) is the main character of the show.

[Supremo]

Some good stuff in this thread.

I once heard it brilliantly described that WWE television was formatted similar to The Muppets. It’s not just a wrestling show, similar to how The Muppets isn’t just an entertainment show . It’s a show about putting on that show. It should just be matches to determine who is the best, but stuff is always going wrong and things get out of control.

I’d say the biggest difference since starting on Netflix is there’s now another layer of meta. It’s no longer a show about a wrestling show. It’s a show about a show about a wrestling show, celebrating how fucking brilliant and creative and hot and attractive to celebrities and advertisers they are. Have you heard that WWE is on fire? If not, Hunter will be out shortly to tell you again.

An exhausting capitalist circle jerk.

Edited April 22, 2025 by Supremo

[thatvinylgeek]

31 minutes ago, Supremo said:

It’s a show about a show about a wrestling show

Don't forget, soon we get to watch a show about them writing the show which is a show about a show about a wrestling show

[air_raid]

37 minutes ago, Supremo said:

It’s not just a wrestling show, similar to how The Muppets isn’t just an entertainment show . It’s a show about putting on that show.

Wrestling Isn't Wrestling.

100% I agree that it completely should be that the fiction speaks for itself and the kayfabe-breaking stuff exists outside that bubble, but it's hard to do that when the main vehicle for advertising the rest of the content is the fiction itself. It's kind of always been that way though or at least for several decades, as soon as VHS profiles stopped being 100% in character and "Look how good Razor is, he won all these matches". Was "Cause Stone Cold Said So" the first tape that peeled back the curtain, showing Austin when he was in ECW, slagging off Eric Bischoff and acknowledging the real human that worked other places before the WWF? It's been a slow and steady descent since then.

I don't think we've seen anything as egregious on Netflix though as that interview with Sasha after she won the NXT belt where she did a bitter heel promo then got asked words to the effect of "We've heard what it means to Sasha Banks, but what does it mean to you?" acknowledging that really the question was now being directed to MKV herself, where upon Mercedes immediately lost control and started blubbing.

[Vamp]

I hate the whole "here are the wrestlers arriving" at the start of every show. I don't care. Give me an intro video!

Ultimately it's presented too much like a sport now. I blame all those fans who said WWE should be more like UFC. Sport is boring.