The fast moving 90’s

[garynysmon]

Slowly but surely I’ve been working my way through 1997 episodes of Raw (my favourite ever year in wrestling) and it still never fails to amaze me just how fast moving the landscape was back then.

I’m convinced, from a show’s intro alone, you could pinpoint when it took place by virtue of how often the set/intros/roster used to change back then.

Could you honestly do the same with any episode of Raw from, say 2010 onwards?

But early 1997, in particular, feels like a completely different era to December of that year, it doesn’t feel like the same show at all! 

As an avid fan at the time I was gutted when our sky box broke between One Night Only and Survivor Series 1997. I missed the Montreal Screwjob and my next exposure to WWF was a report on BBC News about Mike Tyson appearing on Raw (with even a new logo in the bottom corner!)

Buying WWF magazine that week, it felt that almost everything had changed again!

But for a decade as a whole, you started with the Royal Rumble and Survivor Series as new concepts, ditching the blue cage, Hell in a Cell in the late 90’s and then TLC and Money in the Bank in the early 2000’s.

Wrestlemania 1 and 5 felt worlds apart, ditto WM 5 to 10, 10 to 15 etc.

My point, I suppose, is isn’t it strange in an era when people’s attention spans are shorter than ever and there has never been more competition for eyeballs, wrestling had gone totally the other way in providing longer than ever TV matches and a product that seemingly evolves so much slower than days gone by?

 

Edited August 22, 2024 by garynysmon

[simonworden]

Good thread. I often ponder this these days as when I sencounter clips from the last decade it's a lot harder to pinpoint when some of the angles or matches actually happened. 

Productions styles and sets are a lot to blame with PPVs and TV all often using the same set for years. Raw 2012 to 2016 looked identical then 2016 to 2019. We've had a bit more variety in recent years though with those end of 2019 sets/styles into the Covid era, coming out into the massive screen era and now the more toned down ones which I do think has made things freshen up a bit. 

I don't think the slow down in roster changes has helped much either. It's probably been more than I think but with key people staying in positions longer like Roman, Orton etc at the top and midcarders like Ziggle, Mix, Kofi all have longer runs than we saw historically in the past even compared to say 98 to 08 and how much that changed. Part of this is down to NXT in my opinion that many have this bolted on extra time where they were technically in a separate promotion/show but it was still under the WWE umbrella so they've been here even longer. 

[Callum1993]

This was highlighted to me recently that generally the Attitude Era is considered to have started in December 1997 with Vince’s promo about Attitude and arguably ended with Wrestlemania 17 in 2001. Roman Reigns’ title run from 2020 to Wrestlemania this year was for a longer period. So Roman was champion for longer than the Attitude Era. 

[The Gaffer]

8 hours ago, garynysmon said:

But early 1997, in particular, feels like a completely different era to December of that year, it doesn’t feel like the same show at all!

My favourite thing ever in wrestling isn't a specific match or promo, it's pretty much just this aesthetic change. I find it weirdly fascinating. You could say it happened in bits and pieces - with plenty of outside influence - but Raw going from (what felt by the end) those cheesy, circus USA colour ring ropes, no signs and the minimal RAW letters set to looking like that industrial club the last ten minutes of every 90s action show seemed to happen in in the space of a few months was such a massive change and an important part of giving those big stars that would come the TV set they deserved. 

If you look at some of the houses they were doing, the taping blocks in the fall of 96 got some decent arenas that were more or less the same as what they'd run a few months later with the full titantron but they looked much smaller because the show just had such a flat, unlit feel to it. Nitro really looked like it was from the future in comparison. Imagine being a non-fan, channel hopping and seeing a dingy, smoky hall with baby blue livery everywhere around the ring and then seeing that shiny Nitro set blow up like some death tourney from some sci-fi film. 

 

[LaGoosh]

I think the often static feeling to today's scene is because wrestlers seem to get put into the spotlight much younger and due to vastly improved health, cleaner living and safer working conditions their careers are longer and they stick around on TV for years and years while in the 90s most the wrestlers seemed to have 2-5 years max on TV before their bodies gave up, they burned out or they went off the rails. The 90s felt like a revolving door of talent in comparison to today where people like The Miz, Orton, Shaemus, Ziggler, Kofi etc. have all been on TV every week for over ten years.

To me the 97-2000 aesthetic is the best wrestling has ever looked. 

[garynysmon]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

To me the 97-2000 aesthetic is the best wrestling has ever looked. 

And yet, all of those years felt different to the last.

The 1998 Raw set was a bit more polished than 1997’s and McMahon had left the commentary booth, the ‘gang wars’ stuff was over and one of the biggest stars (Bret Hart) had left.

1999 had the introduction of Jericho and Paul Wight, they’d toned down a little on 1998’s ultra crash tv, and by 2000 Austin was gone for most of the year, you had that McMahon-Helmsley stuff and another significant change in set.

@The Gaffer 1996 is a funny one. The set was very cartoony and you had so many plumber gimmicks, Sal Sincere, Freddy Joe Floyd’s still hanging about, yet you also had the start of Austin’s proper run, Diesel flipping the bird and ECW popping up.

Also the increasing number of references to VKM being the actual company owner.

It wasn’t until rewatching over lockdown that I realised that the seeds of the Attitude era were probably planted in ‘96, despite the overall goofy looking show.

Edited August 22, 2024 by garynysmon

[The Gaffer]

1 hour ago, garynysmon said:

 

@The Gaffer 1996 is a funny one. The set was very cartoony and you had so many plumber gimmicks, Sal Sincere, Freddy Joe Floyd’s still hanging about, yet you also had the start of Austin’s proper run, Diesel flipping the bird and ECW popping up.

Also the increasing number of references to VKM being the actual company owner.

It wasn’t until rewatching over lockdown that I realised that the seeds of the Attitude era were probably planted in ‘96, despite the overall goofy looking show.

Raw after SummerSlam 96 is great. It doesn't quite have the look yet - and struggles to feel big time and energised with the taping block format - but they'd pretty much distilled the already small roster down to who was actually working. It's an easy hour to pass and usually just involves some combination of HBK, Owen & Davey, Mankind, Goldust, Undertaker and Vader with Austin popping in and out being the most jarring scumbag on the planet. 

Similarly, I liked post-SummerSlam 1999 once the Corporate Ministry bollocks ended as well. X-Pac's underdog thing with the big lads, the Holly cousins coming along to add a bit of levity to the shows, E&C and the Hardyz properly clicking into gear, Vince largely being off TV until Christmas...it felt like they were shaking off the Russo writing and sowing the seeds for the more fun, in-ring based stuff 2000 would bring. 

I remember everyone being excited for Jericho as well. Sure, he was rubbish for the first few months, but when the product's hot sometimes it doesn't matter. Kind of like how guys like Edge have supposedly had their best periods post-Attitude Era but if you ask any of the millions (and millions...) of lapsed fans their default mental image of him is still 99-00 and that's essentially 'the best Edge'. 

To your point on the acceleration of everything, there's a few people on the various rosters who would look insanely out of place if they moved six months to a year, even though I'm sure there was plenty of contract overlaps technically. 

Jericho on a 98 Raw would feel insane. 

The likes of the DOA and the Oddities lasting into 99 with the same frequency they stunk up PPVs in 1998 would look crazy. 

It would have been great to see, but thinking about Ken Shamrock being on 2000 Raws is just...odd. 

 

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, The Gaffer said:

Similarly, I liked post-SummerSlam 1999 once the Corporate Ministry bollocks ended as well. X-Pac's underdog thing with the big lads, the Holly cousins coming along to add a bit of levity to the shows, E&C and the Hardyz properly clicking into gear, Vince largely being off TV until Christmas...it felt like they were shaking off the Russo writing and sowing the seeds for the more fun, in-ring based stuff 2000 would bring. 

One bad spot during this time - Triple H. His main event heel run was brand new and he was fucking awful at it. Just non stop desperate try hard shit. Thankfully he managed to calm down and piece everything together by late November/early December. 

[BomberPat]

5 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

I think the often static feeling to today's scene is because wrestlers seem to get put into the spotlight much younger and due to vastly improved health, cleaner living and safer working conditions their careers are longer and they stick around on TV for years and years while in the 90s most the wrestlers seemed to have 2-5 years max on TV before their bodies gave up, they burned out or they went off the rails. The 90s felt like a revolving door of talent in comparison to today where people like The Miz, Orton, Shaemus, Ziggler, Kofi etc. have all been on TV every week for over ten years.

To me the 97-2000 aesthetic is the best wrestling has ever looked. 

There's also a lot of really significant gimmick repackages - there's not a huge turnover in talent between 1995 and 1998, but it feels like a whole other world because of how many people changed characters. Whereas the likes of Miz and Ziggler and Sheamus have been more or less the same characters forever with an occasional new lick of paint.

[The Gaffer]

1 hour ago, LaGoosh said:

One bad spot during this time - Triple H. His main event heel run was brand new and he was fucking awful at it. Just non stop desperate try hard shit. Thankfully he managed to calm down and piece everything together by late November/early December. 

Oh 100%. 

DX 99 flies way too under the radar as some of the worst shit ever in wrestling for my liking. The 2000 version with the McMahons and the Run-D.M.C tune was fine. We're talking that awful late-99 version where you had them constantly making references to Triple H potentially having sex with the bosses daughter against her will or when she was passed out, delivered with Dude, Where's My Car? levels of goofball good-times subtlety about the whole thing. 

Triple H playing an Asian doctor in a Mankind skit is in there as well. Genuinely the most unfunny man on the planet on his day.  

X-Pac is the real casualty. He has to adjust to life back supporting his buddy by going from one of the hottest, most sympathetic babyface acts in the entire industry to inexplicably becoming Kane's schoolyard bully and stealing his girlfriend. A run that would end up in the term 'X-Pac heat' being invented. 

The Outlaws are just...there. Both of them are strung out on pills and just coasting along, probably miserable at the thought that they were convinced binning DX would be a great idea at the start of the year - when they were second only to Austin in merch sales.

Awful shite. 

 

[davertfnewman]

Jake Roberts was one of the top three heels in the WWF in early 1992 and probably could've stayed around a bit longer and still been higher up.

In 1996, granted many different things happening, he was presented as fragile relic from a previous age.

[TheScarlettChad]

Now, imagine how much of a relic he'd have felt if he was the higher power in 1999.

[AndyUK]

100%. I mean I’m saying this as someone that has been watching since 2000 and has watched a lot of the 90s stuff back, but the general format of weekly wrestling TV has not changed that much at all since I started watching nearly 25 years ago. 
 

The only new concepts that have really even stuck in that time (from a WWE standpoint anyway) are the Elimination Chamber and Money In The Bank. Everyone else is from the 80s and 90s. 

[LaGoosh]

17 hours ago, AndyUK said:

but the general format of weekly wrestling TV has not changed that much at all since I started watching nearly 25 years ago.

I think that's why I enjoyed Lucha Underground so much. It was the first thing in decades that actually felt like a genuinely new and fresh take on wrestling while still sticking to the tried and true stuff that has always worked.

I remember years ago we have a thread on here where people tried to come up with a new way to do a weekly wrestling TV show and basically all anyone could think of was to do it as a league like a real sport. Apart from that everything anyone came up with had already been done. 

[Lorne Malvo]

Was it Nigel McGuinness who years ago tried to get funding for a new promotion which was inspired by Breaking Bad? It sounded like utter bollocks.