season 2 has started Frasier

[FLips]

4 episodes into season 2 and it's still just fine.

There are things I like about it and things I don't. I think Frasier himself still feels like Frasier, and Alan has really came into his own this season; I'm enjoying the nuggets they're dropping about problems with his kids and it's adding a lot more depth to him. Some of the premises have been fun too, the Ham one was a nice little take on the classic Niles making soup bit and the recent episode where they all used a baby to pick up women was a decent farce.

My issues with it are that the rest of the supporting cast are pretty crap. Freddie is rubbish, Freddie's work buddies are rubbish, Eve is rubbish and they all get so much air time. Frasier worked so well because it was always clear he was the main character and he bounced around this strong supporting cast. This sometimes feels like a Freddie and Eve sitcom also featuring Frasier and when it's like that it's at it's worst.
David and Olivia have their moments, but they're written so badly.

I think the main offender and why I can't get 100% behind it is that (and this is more apparent if you watch old episodes before/after) the show has no heart. These aren't people with their own personalities and lives interacting with each other, they're characters in a sitcom who constantly pop witty one-liners and then pause for laughs. Freddie is bad for it, grimacing when he delivers punchlines. David talks like a robot and Eve has no personality other than working in a bar and having a baby. I feel like two seasons in and nearly everyone is still a stranger who behind them doing tame punchlines has nothing going on.

They all could really do with slowing the fuck down. Frasier is at it's best when the script is just conversation between strong characters and the jokes are the personalities or the mannerisms, or when it's so over the top that it's slapstick. There are no conversations in this new Frasier, just joke after shitty dig after pause for applause.

Also I hate how Frasier is a millionaire. Frasier and Niles always being successful and pretentious but still being shunned by higher societies and never feeling adequate in other departments are what made them so loveable. There's not really anything loveable about Frasier bragging about money and owning a whole apartment building.

The new seasons have been at their best when it's slapstick like in Ham or Reindeer Games, or when it was a slow and character-driven episode like The Good Father. They're the episodes that have came closest to being like proper Frasier.

Edited October 4, 2024 by FLips

[DavidB6937]

This week's episode might be my favourite so far.

[RedTwoster]

On 10/12/2024 at 11:28 AM, DavidB6937 said:

This week's episode might be my favourite so far.

I thought it started strong, but the idea of Bebe’s daughter pretending to be Frasier’s working as a ploy to get her on his team seemed too far-fetched even for a sitcom. I’m still enjoying the series, but it still struggles to hit the heights of the original. It doesn’t have to for me to be glad that it exists though, and I’m still crossing my fingers for a Niles and Daphne appearance, and hoping to god they don’t decide to bring back Simon. 

[DavidB6937]

2 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

I thought it started strong, but the idea of Bebe’s daughter pretending to be Frasier’s working as a ploy to get her on his team seemed too far-fetched even for a sitcom.

I mean it was a bit ridiculous but Frasier is at its best with the farce anyway so it's not too bad, plus I thought Rachel Bloom was great in the role so it worked for me.

[RedTwoster]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

I mean it was a bit ridiculous but Frasier is at its best with the farce anyway so it's not too bad, plus I thought Rachel Bloom was great in the role so it worked for me.

She was, and Harriet Sansom Harris stepped back into the role of Bebe as if she’d never left it. 

[FLips]

I didn't mind the Bebe episode but felt it was maybe too Bebe/Bebe's daughter heavy. A fantastic character but she's so cartoonish you can't carry an episode on her like you can with Roz.

I enjoyed the B-story with Olivia stealing all of Alan's speeches though. I saw that the final episode of the season is a Christmas one about Alan possibly reuniting with his daughter so the investment in his story seems to be looking at a good payoff. There's apparently also one where Frasier returns to Seattle for a KACL reunion so I'm expecting/hoping for some Bulldog and Gil at the very least.

I think we'd be lucky to get any Niles or Daphne at this point, and honestly they were such integral parts of the main show that I don't think a cameo would do them any justice.

[RedTwoster]

Season 2 of the reboot has really driven off a cliff, which is a shame; I thought they’d pulled things together by the end of season one, but some of the episodes this time around have been truly abysmal. 

[Chili]

I didn't like the KACL reunion to be honest @RedRoosterbut that's a thing I have about fan service bits when they revist the characters but everyone is a bit older and not as good. It always ruins my positive memory. I've actually found the 2nd series just as competent as the 1st. I don't mind it.

[DavidB6937]

The KACL one was fine if not a little pointless. I really enjoyed the last two episodes though. I thought the murder mystery really played to everyone's strengths. And the Christmas finale was surprisingly emotional. They definitely saved the best for last for me anyway. I can see why some people have wanted more from the second season but it was decent enough for me.

[FLips]

I think the Christmas episode was a strong end to the season, and I got the feeling from how nicely it wrapped up that they may think that could be the end. If it is, it's fine.
If we got those 2 seasons and that was that then at the very least we can say they brought Frasier back and it wasn't a disaster. It could have been a lot better, but look at what it had to live up to.

I remember reports coming out, maybe from Kelsey Grammer, before it aired that Season 2 was when the cast started to find their characters and get more comfortable and you definitely sense that with Alan and Olivia, though Freddie is still rubbish.

[DavidB6937]

4 hours ago, FLips said:

I think the Christmas episode was a strong end to the season, and I got the feeling from how nicely it wrapped up that they may think that could be the end. If it is, it's fine.
If we got those 2 seasons and that was that then at the very least we can say they brought Frasier back and it wasn't a disaster. It could have been a lot better, but look at what it had to live up to.

I remember reports coming out, maybe from Kelsey Grammer, before it aired that Season 2 was when the cast started to find their characters and get more comfortable and you definitely sense that with Alan and Olivia, though Freddie is still rubbish.

Yeah I actually really enjoyed Alan in the last few episodes especially, and crazy murder mystery Olivia was great. Even David was at his best.

They definitely struggled with Freddie again although I thought it was fun seeing him and Frasier as the meddlers in the last one. I could get behind that more.

[Chili]

I actually enjoy the performance of Freddy, it's Niles and Daphne's kid that I find crowbarred into too much. He feels like he's there simply to have a symbolic remembrance that Niles exists still. Genuinely don't see the point in him other than getting Niles and Daphne back for a one-off to take him back home.

Really enjoyed seeing Roz as a semi-regular though, Peri Gilpin still has a wonderful voice to listen to.

[FLips]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

Yeah I actually really enjoyed Alan in the last few episodes especially, and crazy murder mystery Olivia was great. Even David was at his best.

They definitely struggled with Freddie again although I thought it was fun seeing him and Frasier as the meddlers in the last one. I could get behind that more.

Freddie's issue, or moreso the actor's, is that whenever they're on screen they're mugging for the cameras and everything has to be a punchline with them. They were one of the few characters during the run they failed to humanise, because you never forgot they were a sitcom character.

[burchybabi]

 

[FLips]

That’s fair. I think in a bottle it makes a nice addition to the full series. It was never great, but it gave closure on Martin’s death, gave an update enough on other characters and provided some decent nostalgia. 
It was never truly bad and I think that’s the most we could have asked for.

Edited January 18, 2025 by FLips