Signings, exits, returns etc

[Carbomb]

14 hours ago, Dai said:

From a completely purists/sporting point of view, then getting rid of undefeated, therefore very successful fighters doesnt sit right. The problem is, the UFC lives in its own world, so they set the rules. You said if theres a problem, then thats on the promotion. But the issue there is, they do see this as a problem and their solution is to cut the 'boring' fighters. 

The problem is, MMA as a sport cannot be compared to any other i dont think, not even boxing. So all the analogies about boring but successful examples cannot be compared to MMA, such is the strength of the monopoly the UFC has. Things like football, there are millions of people who are fans and loyal to their team, who will watch week in and week out regardless of entertainment, because its the result that matters. UFC doesn't have that, and in a bizarre way its not actually the result that is the most important thing any more, its being entertained. When they have spent years stripping away all of the star power/individuality of their fighters as they want UFC to be the draw, they have essentially become WWE, where entertainment overrides everything.

Long and rambling post, but I guess it boils down to 'Would the UFC make more money by being purely results based and 100% fair?', and the answer is no. 

That's too far in the opposite direction; I'm not arguing that they should make it purely results based - there are plenty of legendary matches that happened simply because they made sense at the time, and if they'd booked purely in line with results, we'd have never got them.

I'm saying there should be a balance between pure entertainment and sport - hell, I'm saying that a big part of the entertainment is knowing that the sport you're watching is of people at the highest level of it.

14 hours ago, Dai said:

It has also been this way for ages too, so no fighter going into the UFC can be shocked or feel hard done by if sonething like this happens. Unfortunately its not a UFC problem, and they are not going to adapt their attitude to accommodate 'decision guys', to the detriment of their bottom line, just to increase the pure sporting aspect, which 99% of people who watch UFC dont care about 

Accommodating decision merchants won't really affect their bottom line, though - it's the brand which draws these days, and they've deliberately made it that way. They've spent years booking Do-Nothing cards in a shed, and basically cruising by on brand recognition, barely making any effort to really excite their fanbase (the White House show is probably the only exception to that).

I still say they should change up the ruleset and the set-up, but that would actually require them to do their actual jobs as promoters. So much easier to just blame the fighters. Consequently, we have a promotion that will hold on to wife-beaters and rapists who lose matches like Hardy, Sedriques, and Dumas, and release undefeated fighters like Basharat.

[Egg Shen]

10 hours ago, Carbomb said:

 

I still say they should change up the ruleset and the set-up, but that would actually require them to do their actual jobs as promoters. So much easier to just blame the fighters. 

Then you'll be creating a PFL-type situation though which was all about winning to progress and literally nobody gave a fuck about it. It also meant fights went by the wayside which people would have actually paid to see.

There was a fight on the boxing last night (no spoilers) where a fighter dominated but cruised to a decision and the commentary spent the whole fight basically saying "it doesn't matter how good you are, if no one wants to watch you fight, you ain't going to get the opportunities". Same thing.

[Carbomb]

44 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Then you'll be creating a PFL-type situation though which was all about winning to progress and literally nobody gave a fuck about it. It also meant fights went by the wayside which people would have actually paid to see.

I disagree. There's a whole load of ways to change things, and, as I said to Dai, I'm not saying they should make it all about the sports side of it. I'm just saying they should try to bakance things a bit to ensure that good fighters aren't ditched for doing their jobs well just because certain people don't like how they do them. A good way to do that is to change their fight rules to close "loopholes" that boring fighters can use to win. If they have a style that wins fights for them, the defence against that style should be by fighters in the cage, not by promoters shaming them outside it, or screwing their careers.

Like I mentioned above, wand talked a long time ago about how WEC's ruleset and cage size was conducive to having much more exciting matches. It may not be a guarantee of making things more interesting overall, but it's surely worth a try. If I were a promoter, I'd rather attempt to make assets than just dump them; I'd rather re-arrange things to make an exciting, elite fighter out of a boring, elite fighter.

[jimufctna24]

55 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Like I mentioned above, wand talked a long time ago about how WEC's ruleset and cage size was conducive to having much more exciting matches. It may not be a guarantee of making things more interesting overall, but it's surely worth a try. If I were a promoter, I'd rather attempt to make assets than just dump them; I'd rather re-arrange things to make an exciting, elite fighter out of a boring, elite fighter.

I don't recall the WEC's ruleset being significantly different to the UFC's, but I could well be mistaken. 

The WEC's cages were smaller than most of the cages the UFC use. That was the big downside of the UFC/WEC merger. The smaller fighters were obliged to compete in the larger UFC cages; cages designed for much bigger men. All the extra space therefore penalised smaller pressure fighters and limited exchanges in their fights.

I recall Slack suggesting that there was a way in which the cage's size could be extended or narrowed between fights to address this issue. However, I've never seen the UFC or anyone else seriously entertain implementing it. 

Edited Sunday at 10:23 AM by jimufctna24

[Egg Shen]

Pretty sure the WEC's ruleset was the same. Strikeforce's was different (no elbows).

[Carbomb]

I'll have to defer on that, then. It's been some time since I read wand's post; he went into some detail about it. The main thing I remember is the smaller cage, but I figured there must have been more to it than that.

[jimufctna24]

Quick note: the cage the UFC uses for Apex events is roughly the same size as the WEC cages. But otherwise, the cages the UFC use are still bigger than the WEC cages. 

Strikeforces' cage was similar in size to the UFC apex and WEC cages, but also a different shape. 

[wandshogun09]

I can’t even remember the post @Carbomb’s talking about but I don’t doubt I said it. I don’t think I’d have said anything about WEC’s ruleset being different, I don’t think it was. As far as I recall they had the same rules as the UFC. But yeah the cage size I’ve definitely brought up a few times. Also worth remembering as well that WEC predominantly featured only the ‘good’ weight classes, 170 and below, for the majority of the promotion’s run so that also did a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to overall fight quality.

There’s things they could probably tweak. And to be fair, they have in recent years with the removal of the 12-6 elbow ban and taking out the silly ‘one hand on the canvas’ constituting a grounded opponent thing. If I had my way they’d reintroduce knees to the head on the ground but I doubt that ever happens. But I don’t think the UFC in its current form really give enough of a shit to put effort into making the sport more enjoyable. They’ve already made their bag. They can’t even be arsed to make a proper attempt to limit eye pokes, or at least penalise repeat offenders heavily. They brought the new gloves in then sacked them off after a handful of shows because they decided they were KO repellent. We’re in the lazy UFC era and to them, the quickest and easiest minor fix to boring fights is to just get rid of fighters they think are boring. It’s never gonna change. And as much as I moaned about MVP, I wasn’t exactly calling for his release because it always feels a bit off to get rid of fighters who have winning UFC records. But at the same time, I’m a hypocrite because I can’t pretend I blame them because he’s gotta be pound-for-pound one of the most ball achingly dull fighters in MMA history. 

I do get your points Carbomb. When you’ve got Dana repeatedly saying that the UFC is “where the best fight the best” it is a bit jarring to see unbeaten guys like Basharat and Mokaev get pushed out. Especially with the amount of absolute dross at the lower end of the roster these days. But I came to terms with the fact a long time ago that the whole “where the best fight the best” thing hasn’t really been true for a while and, like most places of work, if your face doesn’t fit, you won’t be around long or get the same chances others might. Not necessarily fair but it’s the way it is. Basharat will be fine. He’ll probably get picked up by PFL or go back to Oktagon or something. Fighting in the UFC isn’t the prize it once was and Farid probably wasn’t on amazing money in the UFC anyway. It’s fucked up but there’s a chance he’ll do better financially away from the UFC at this point. 

Edited Sunday at 12:14 PM by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

2 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Also worth remembering as well that WEC predominantly featured only the ‘good’ weight classes, 170 and below, for the majority of the promotion’s run so that also did a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to overall fight quality.

Aye.

They sacked off the Heavyweight divisions in 2006 when Zuffa bought it.

Then the Light Heavyweights and Middleweights were merged with the UFC's in late 2008. Between 2006 and 2008 there would probably be 2 or 3 fights from those divisions on each card at the very most. The rest of the fights were at 170lbs and below. 

2 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

If I had my way they’d reintroduce knees to the head on the ground but I doubt that ever happens.

IIRC, the commission only banned knees to the head of a grounded opponent because they attended a fight where Barnett used them in the early 2000s. I sadly can't find a source, but that is my recollection. 

Edit: It was actually a Gan McGee fight in September 2000 in IFC. 

Edited Sunday at 02:33 PM by jimufctna24

[Dai]

To be fair, if Option A is to spend millions of dollars and a shit load of time to try and change the ruleset and setup, for absolutely no return (in terms of both fans and money), then its clear why they go with Option B which is to release decision fighters and WhatsApp others to say they dont want them doing it.

 

Basically, the UFC monopoly means good, even great fighters mean absolutely jack shit to the UFC, and are not even considered assets, which has been proven many a time over the last few years. Its their world and the fighters just live in it. 

[Dai]

16 hours ago, Carbomb said:

- hell, I'm saying that a big part of the entertainment is knowing that the sport you're watching is of people at the highest level of it.

Could be an interesting debate all in itself. With the UFC model, which is essentially throwaway weekly shows that allow degen gamblers to bet, which has banked them 7 billion dollars, then this actually isnt true in 2026. Fury/Joshua suggests otherwise too. In MMA, I wonder if thats ever been the case.

[jimufctna24]

The UFC fanbase are indeed largely made up of gambles rather than fight fanatics nowadays. No doubt they pump a lot of money into the UFC through betting sponsors. 

There is a theory however that the UFC have been fortunate with their TV deals. Major streaming companies have started up with a desperate need for sporting content (ESPN, Paramount) around the same time as when the UFC's previous TV deals expired. Therefore, the likes of ESPN and Paramount probably overpaid the UFC.

It's possible that when their Paramount deal expires another lofty streaming deal will not be on the table for them.

Edited Sunday at 03:22 PM by jimufctna24

[Carbomb]

2 hours ago, Dai said:

To be fair, if Option A is to spend millions of dollars and a shit load of time to try and change the ruleset and setup, for absolutely no return (in terms of both fans and money), then its clear why they go with Option B which is to release decision fighters and WhatsApp others to say they dont want them doing it.

Would it really cost all that much, though? As to whether or not it would have a return, I don't know how quantifiable that is, without doing a survey of fans.

But it's all academic. As wand says, they're in their lazy era. I'll be rooting for Basharat wherever he goes, and I hope he goes on an record-breaking undefeated run.

[wandshogun09]

12 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I'll be rooting for Basharat wherever he goes, and I hope he goes on an record-breaking undefeated run.

The thing is, even if he does go on some killer run now and starts finishing opponents left and right, that will just strengthen the UFC boot lickers stance of ‘well he couldn’t do this against UFC level guys’. But if he keeps just out working guys it’ll be ‘see, the UFC were right to not renew him’. Can’t win. You’ll never please the Dana/Zuffa arse rimmers. The narrative gets twisted regardless. I don’t think Farid’s the type to let it phase him too much though.

Saw a clip of Dana being asked about this whole thing yesterday and he said something like ‘if a guy with that kind of record gets released, there’s a reason for it’. Being all cryptic again like the time he pretended he knew where AJ vs Fury was taking place when clearly he didn’t. Who knows? Maybe Farid was a massive pain in the arse behind the scenes or something. But I doubt it myself. Given what we know about 2026 Dana, I suspect he doesn’t even know who Farid is so didn’t know how to answer the question, but wanted to sound like he was in the loop. 

[Egg Shen]

12 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Saw a clip of Dana being asked about this whole thing yesterday and he said something like ‘if a guy with that kind of record gets released, there’s a reason for it’. 

It's also worth noting that Bashrat's Brother was also released on a win from the UFC. These guys might just be a massive pain in the arse, and if you are being a nuisance as well as being boring, you've got the recipe to get yourself cut from the promotion.