Paid Members FLips Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 What level of star power does a person have to have before a regular shot-together match you have on your show becomes a problem because they haven't built it? Did anyone watch Raw in 2002 and moan because they put Lance Storm and William Regal vs Jeff Hardy and Tommy Dreamer? I don't understand the boundaries some people have for just having a wrestling match on a wrestling programme. Just enjoy the match you big babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 Yeah I didn't expect a match with Orange Cassidy and Bryan Danielson in it to lead to this much griping and debate to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, LaGoosh said: Yeah I didn't expect a match with Orange Cassidy and Bryan Danielson in it to lead to this much griping and debate to be honest. Or that people can't grasp the concept that sometimes a random match might happen first which then leads to a story, and not always the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doog Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) It's not this specific match itself that has led to this discussion, it's far broader than that. The argument about random matches in WWE isn't valid, when Lance Storm is facing Tommy Dreamer on a random 2002 Raw, that's fine, it wasn't advertised 5 days out as a selling point to the show, this is. Yeah it sounds like there is a little bit if story if you search far enough, but your average viewer isn't doing that. It's more the advertising these matches and the reason for it generally, is as mentioned above, these are decent wrestlers this'll be good lads, watch it. It's right that this isn't a new thing and AEW has always been like it, but that's not a plus point. Live attendances are in the toilet, TV ratings are pretty much the exact same as they have been since it started, the regular viewers are tuning it but it's not growing, and yeah there's other reasons for it but chucking matches out for the sake of it definitely isn't helping. You can hate on WWE all you like about how they've conditioned fans for their way of presenting wrestling, but it works and that's proven in how popular it is and has been. No one wants to have to read up on every little thing to understand why a match is happening and to be invested. Some will on here aye, but the average fan will tune out. Like I say it's not just all because of this specific match, it's not a new thing and has been going on for far too long and happens far too often. These aren't just matches randomly popping up when you watch TV, they're being advertised and sold, only for the same 900k (unless NXT is on) to tune in and watch whilst thousands of others in the town don't even show up. Edited October 22, 2023 by Doog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 So your problem isn't that the match is happening, it's that they're advertising the match? Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Doog said: You can hate on WWE all you like about how they've conditioned fans for their way of presenting wrestling, but it works and that's proven in how popular it is and has been. No one wants to have to read up on every little thing to understand why a match is happening and to be invested. Some will on here aye, but the average fan will tune out. Yeah but what if you don't give a fuck how popular WWE is, think their output is absolute shite or care what the average fan thinks? AEW is a niche product for a different, smaller audience with different viewing habits. That's ok. I don't really care about business metrics because I don't profit off AEW being successful. I only care that I enjoy it. Edited October 22, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doog Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Again as stated, it's not just a criticism about this match itself, it's a lot broader than that. My advertising point was in response to why you wouldn't criticise Lance Storm v Whoever for example. The point is generally there's too many matches just being chucked out there as selling points to watch the show, when there's little to no reason (unless you research) for it to be happening to the average viewer. There not gaining any new fans, losing them if anything (certainly live attendance wise) so it's not working. So what's the point. Even people that do watch regularly aren't following it. Waste of time with some on here though, AEW can do no wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Doog said: Waste of time with some on here though, AEW can do no wrong Well that's nonsense. The biggest AEW fans on here criticize it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doog Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, LaGoosh said: Yeah but what if you don't give a fuck how popular WWE is, think their output is absolute shite or care what the average fan thinks? AEW is a niche product for a different, smaller audience with different viewing habits. That's ok. Yeah that's fair, it is niche and that is ok. My problem is i do like AEW and do enjoy it when I watch it, but shit like this puts me off because like I say it's difficult to follow unless you've been into everything and followed careers for years/read up etc. I appreciate that means the product isn't directed towards me, which is also fine, but I want to like it and for it to grow, but with stuff like this happening I don't think it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I'd say it's probably more a combination of inconsistent booking, a lack of hot stars/stories, increased ticket prices, marathon length tapings that put people off going again, poor marketing, repeatedly going to the same areas than people not knowing who CHAOS are or whatever. That’s clearly not what I’m saying. My point is that AEW can feel very inaccessible because of things like this, not because of this in isolation. It’s likely as much of a contributing factor to AEW’s problems as anything else you’ve listed. 31 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: AEW has always been like that when it comes to that other stuff and lack of details, it hasn't changed recently. Their biggest ever US PPV had Mox in a random match with a Japanese guy I had never heard of with no build or explanation to it. There’s a difference between a niche PPV and a weekly TV show, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, Doog said: Again as stated, it's not just a criticism about this match itself, it's a lot broader than that. My advertising point was in response to why you wouldn't criticise Lance Storm v Whoever for example. So you wouldn't advertise a nothing match like Lance Storm vs Whoever, but you also don't think AEW should advertise a match with two of the best wrestlers in the world in it either. What do you want to advertise then? What is your alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) I’m here all day long for people arguing announcing matches ahead of time is causing AEW’s attendance issues, literally the week in which they announced Mistico out of nowhere, with no build, and it resulted in a huge surge in ticket sales. What’s most exhausting is that we’ve been here time and time again. All this, “but what’s the story,” shit has come up numerous times, and every single time it’s completely disproven when they inevitably air vignettes or have Excalibur expertly explain exactly how and why a match is happening before, during and after. Rinse and repeat. No-one ever learns. No-one ever goes, “ah, fair enough, seems I’m talking bollocks.” This dog shit take just goes into storage before it depressingly comes around again a month or so later. Same thing will happen this week. They’ll tell all the stories leading into this match. It’ll play into the spots and the finish. But all that will be ignored because it wasn’t an impromptu match that was only announced during the show’s opening promo. The ultimate irony is that since AEW came along, WWE themselves have taken huge inspiration and now pre-announce far more matches for Raw and Smackdown than they used to. You usually get a full card nowadays. That was never the case five to ten years ago. Idiots in Titan Towers obviously don’t know what a story is. Edited October 22, 2023 by Supremo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) Can we not just discuss differing takes on wrestling without calling each other’s opinions “dogshit”? It’s a discussion forum after all, not a “let’s all agree forum”. @Doog has explained his point well, you can disagree without being exhausted by it. Edited October 22, 2023 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 With how stacked the roster and the amount of titles there's no excuse in not having 2 marquee matches announced for Dynamite & Collision with at least a week's notice. It was something that Collision was trying to do in the Punk era. The roster was so thin though it was mixing and matching the same people. They shouldn't just be parachuting something like Andrade v. Danielson on under 24hrs notice. A match like that isn't going to add thousands, but it will benefit sales when the alternative is a blank slate and the prospect of 3-4hrs of blatantly obvious squash matches. It's a workrate promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted October 22, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 22, 2023 What would be really useful would be if, during the Okada match, they maybe had some sort of experts that could explain how some of the wrestlers have history, or how some of them know each other. Something like that would really help those watching understand what's going on without having to read loads of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.