sevendaughters Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I'm in favour of progressive taxation and have maintained that stance as I have gone through the tax brackets. I like public services, healthcare, and infrastructure spend. They add up to standard of life. I'm not Scottish though, so this is moot. I do hope that the Scots see sense and leave us cunts behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Vegas Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 As much as people keep saying its not about parties or the SNP one of the main points for a lot of the people in here and in general is to get away from the tories and the current labour regime. The labour regime wont be forever, Starmer has no chance of ever being PM even as much of an absolute shit show Johnson is. Another huge concern of mine is independence happening, there not being any benefit and as things potentially get worse it opens the door massively for increased support in scots Tories or similar. The support for Scots Tories is already higher than its ever been in my life and Id imagine higher than its ever been full stop. A scots tory affiliate with power in Scotland being spoonfed by UK govt Tories would be significantly worse than the situation we currently have in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 15 hours ago, RedRooster said: This Tory government won't be in charge forever, but neither will the SNP. Which is exactly the reason why I don't see the risks of independence being worth it at this time. In 20 years? Maybe. Not now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 46 minutes ago, David said: Which is exactly the reason why I don't see the risks of independence being worth it at this time. In 20 years? Maybe. Not now. See, if the risk of another, even more right wing Tory government didn't exist, I'd probably agree with you. Even if Labour get voted in next election, the media landscape is such that I'd suspect they'd end up being voted right back out again come the next UK election. Johnson may not be Tory leader then, but I'd fear that the direction the party takes from here will be influenced both by him, and Trumpism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, RedRooster said: See, if the risk of another, even more right wing Tory government didn't exist, I'd probably agree with you. Even if Labour get voted in next election, the media landscape is such that I'd suspect they'd end up being voted right back out again come the next UK election. Johnson may not be Tory leader then, but I'd fear that the direction the party takes from here will be influenced both by him, and Trumpism. As mental as this may sound, I'd rather take the risk of another right-wing Tory government, knowing we have a decent range of devolved powers up here to help deal with that, than take the risk of financial disaster from independence and all it entails during the current global climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 On 7/1/2022 at 11:07 AM, David said: As mental as this may sound, I'd rather take the risk of another right-wing Tory government, knowing we have a decent range of devolved powers up here to help deal with that, than take the risk of financial disaster from independence and all it entails during the current global climate. That’s where we differ, I suppose. I think the financial disaster is already here, through Brexit. I don’t think it can get particularly worse, and nothing I’ve read from academics/finance experts has me feeling differently. Although I voted yes in 2014, I don’t think I’d have voted yes again had a referendum taken place in an EU-affiliated UK. I can’t stand the Tories, but, being younger, I don’t think I fully appreciated the complexity of independence back then, or perhaps I wilfully ignored that.  Now, I feel like the UK is heading down a worrying path. Labour probably will win the next election, but it’s what happens next that scares me. If an increasingly far right Republican Party wins power in the States, I fear that the Conservatives will adopt that rhetoric and lean more on the politics of hate and discrimination. Fuelled by the tabloids, that approach might actually work. So that’s why I favour independence. I think you’ve outlined your reasons really well though, and I can completely understand why you’ve arrived at a different conclusion than I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lenin Posted July 3, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) On 6/30/2022 at 8:33 AM, MungoChutney said: If you mean staff working with birth to 5 year olds then you are way off the mark. Well I'm not as my mum headed up three massive college based nurseries and consulted with local authorities on the changes introduced by the Scottish government and the upshot was funding had to be reallocated to help pay for said qualifications. As a result there was less money in budgets for actual learning materials, less funding available to subsidize the childs places in those facilities and quite a few that had been in the childcare profession actually chucked it because of the hassle and stress of having to undergo university degrees in their 30s, 40s etc. And what changed? Nothing. The skillset and knowledge wasn't any different. The actual standard of care provided dropped for several years as a result. But that's obviously made up because I'm way off the mark. Edited July 3, 2022 by Suplex Sinner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MungoChutney Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) Edit - wrote a long post, realised it's probably too personal for the forum. Short version, see some of where you're coming from @Suplex Sinnerbut think you're being harsh on the workforce. And being harsh on the SNP come to think of it because the issue you raise was a Labour policy when they were in Government at Hollyrood. Edited July 3, 2022 by MungoChutney Kayfabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 18 hours ago, RedRooster said: I think you’ve outlined your reasons really well though, and I can completely understand why you’ve arrived at a different conclusion than I have. If, however, between now and any referendum date the Yes campaign manage to put together a financial argument that I think is feasible I'd be willing to rethink my position. I'm not against independence from a personal standpoint. I have no allegiance to the UK or whatever, it's purely numbers and facts for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted July 6, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 6, 2022 I'm a big believer in the right of self determination, and while I don't want Scotland to leave I think it's their right to decide. However. In light of the current shitstorm of politics that's about to have Johnson fuck off, I think it's right his comments that an indyref shouldn't go ahead to be right. Mostly because we need to sort out what happens when he finally fucks off in the next few days. After then, go for it lads. Right now I'd vote to leave if I was Scottish. I'd rather be in a poorer country that I had any kind of faith in than I would under this government. But easy to say when my actual financial status isn't dependent on a vote like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MungoChutney Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 One of his last acts as PM appears to have been to formally refuse the request for a referendum. Straight off the bat the successor can now be shown to be aligned with him if they take the same line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 On 7/6/2022 at 7:12 PM, ReturnOfTheMack said: I'd rather be in a poorer country that I had any kind of faith in than I would under this government. But easy to say when my actual financial status isn't dependent on a vote like that. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members stumobir Posted July 8, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted July 8, 2022 Under the, apparently neoliberal, Tories I’ve seen my tax and NI contributions rise significantly but my access to public services deplete rapidly. Scotland remaining with the UK doesn’t guarantee personal financial stability. No one can really know what would happen in either case. For me, it’s about an opportunity to put social justice front and centre and that’s not happening under Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 1 minute ago, stumobir said: Under the, apparently neoliberal, Tories I’ve seen my tax and NI contributions rise significantly but my access to public services deplete rapidly. Scotland remaining with the UK doesn’t guarantee personal financial stability. No one can really know what would happen in either case. For me, it’s about an opportunity to put social justice front and centre and that’s not happening under Westminster. When you look at the financial landscape in Scotland I think it's fairly safe to say that we'd need to see a combination of raises in taxation and some cutting of social services. I simply don't think there's any other way of bridging the gap. The finances were relatively shaky before the referendum in 2014, and that hasn't gotten any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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