Paid Members BomberPat Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 (edited) 26 minutes ago, MachoLibre said: The "transphobic argument" I was referencing, is I assume that they believe Man vs Woman boxing isn't right. Pat says that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny because of the 9 losses. Were one man to compete against women and lose 9 times doesn't nullify the concerns of what could happen to make man vs woman commonplace. All of which is irrelevant, because this isn't about advocating for men vs. women. It's about defending a cisgender woman who is being unfairly attacked on grounds that simply don't add up. My point about knockouts and losses was that for the transphobic argument to make sense, they need to present her as this unstoppable monster with a powerful male body that is a danger to her opponents. But none of that is true - she's not a particularly heavy hitter (by the standards of an Olympic level boxer, obviously), and she's far from unstoppable. But the media frenzy has to ignore all of that and invoke the spectre of a man beating a woman to turn this into something it's not. At the end of the day, what's the alternative? If Imane Khelif shouldn't be permitted to fight other women, what does she do instead? She's demonstrably not a man. She passed all of the IOC's requisite tests. She fought within her weight class, against an opponent with a similar, if not better, win/loss record than she has. By every metric other than, I don't know, vibes, she has done nothing wrong. I'm used to constantly seeing transphobes say that allowing trans women to compete against cisgender women is unfair, because it's taking a spot from a young girl who dreamed of it, yet now those same people are saying that this cisgender woman shouldn't be allowed to box because she doesn't fit their narrow view of what a woman is "supposed" to be. It's not just insulting and demeaning to Khelif - not to mention potentially dangerous, given the laws and attitudes around LGBTQ+ people in her home country - it's profoundly insulting to all of her opponents to effectively treat them as delicate, fragile little flowers who couldn't possibly be expected to compete against her, rather than as elite level athletes at the fucking Olympics. Edited August 2 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SuperBacon Posted August 2 Author Members Share Posted August 2 Anyway, the Judos on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Just now, SuperBacon said: Anyway, the Judos on. Antisemite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Can you imagine if they tried to make the triathletes swim in the Thames, they wouldn't have made it out the otherside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SuperBacon Posted August 2 Author Members Share Posted August 2 Fair play to her. I think a lot of people owe her an apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Sadly, the damage has been done. Fair play to Carini for wanting to apologise, and that's all that she can do at this point, but the whole can of bigoted worms has been opened, and will probably never be closed again. Khelif now has a lifetime of hateful bullshit to look forward to (if she hasn't had it already) that she probably never even considered she would have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 10 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Sadly, the damage has been done. Fair play to Carini for wanting to apologise, and that's all that she can do at this point, but the whole can of bigoted worms has been opened, and will probably never be closed again. Khelif now has a lifetime of hateful bullshit to look forward to (if she hasn't had it already) that she probably never even considered she would have to deal with. Absolute Roxanne Pallett behaviour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Absolute Roxanne Pallett behaviour I wouldn't go quite that far. From what I understand, Pallett's behaviour was very much in bad faith, an outright lie, whereas Carini's appears to have been at least an honest reaction, but distorted by high emotions in the heat of the moment (which does tend to happen in combat sports). The fact that she wants to apologise, rather than doubling down like Pallett did, would suggest she has had time to think things over more calmly. It's still a very costly and damaging mistake to have made, and she doesn't have to live with it. Khelif does, and I hope Carini realises the gravity of what she's done, mistake or no. Edited August 2 by Carbomb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, SuperBacon said: Anyway, the Judos on. The judo was amazing. To hear the French cheering Teddy Riner on to another gold medal was fantastic. He is an absolute mountain of a man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Can you imagine if they tried to make the triathletes swim in the Thames, they wouldn't have made it out the otherside. It's not that safe in the Seine either  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Former Olympic gold medalist and current world champion Claressa Shields has made a bit of a tit of herself in all this. She apparently did zero research and just went ahead and jumped two footed straight onto the hatewagon, spouting off about Khelif and doing interviews with FOX News about it and all sorts. Then she finds out from fucking Twitter that she was chatting absolute bollocks… I mean, she got there eventually. At least she’s putting it out there now. But Christ, bit late isn’t it? And she still hasn’t deleted the other tweets where she was saying Khelif was a man. I found Shields a complete idiot before this but even by her standards this is embarrassing. Would’ve taken her less than 5 minutes on Google to realise what she was saying was shite. It’s mad how someone in her position could be that dumb to go and do interviews on a subject where she’s basing her whole opinion purely on bullshit she’s read from rage baiting Twitter accounts, without doing any kind of actual fact checking. I’m glad she’s accepted she was wrong but, like Carbomb said, a lot of the shit that’s been thrown is already stuck to the wall now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Can we take this discussion to another thread? I know most people here are discussing this intelligently and in good faith but can we talk about the mixed relays in here instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Ah sorry man, didn’t know where else to put that but I’ll leave it there. Doesn’t deserve to derail the thread any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 1 minute ago, wandshogun09 said: Ah sorry man, didn’t know where else to put that but I’ll leave it there. Doesn’t deserve to derail the thread any further. No, not a shot at you at all, I just think such a serious discussion might be best separated from windsurfing chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 2 Paid Members Share Posted August 2 Nah no worries, I didn’t take it as a shot but you’re right. It’s probably best as a separate discussion if it’s gonna carry on anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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