Your most "Against The Grain" thought on wrestling?

[The Clint]

To say pre 2002 Shawn Michaels is 'pure garbage'  is just fucking silly. 

[PowerButchi]

I don't care for him much after 2002 either. That fucking "acting". Him selling a broken arm is the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life, well 2nd to his cringeworthy "I'm sorry, I love you".

[Sergio Mendacious]

I believe that with a little bit of work, Hardcore Holly could have been a rock solid heel champion.

[The King Of Swing]

I like Wrestlemania II.

 

I know it's crap but I just find myself enjoying it for reasons that I cannot explain.

[LEGIT]

I don't care for him much after 2002 either. That fucking "acting". Him selling a broken arm is the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life, well 2nd to his cringeworthy "I'm sorry, I love you".

His hammy acting is awful, and IMO got worse as his career went on. But his matches, pre or post '02, speak for themselves. I even think the ladder match was Razor has stood the test of time as a classic, even after all that has happened since. 

[neil is brill]

For me it's the absurd notion that "Cena Sux!" - He fucking doesn't!

 

Even when he was at his apparent worst against Triple H that year at Wrestlemania, he was still head and shoulders above anyone else not named Edge, Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels.

 

He had a couple of really decent outings with The Great fucking Khali that were better than they had any right to be. He CARRIED Lashley to the best match he's ever had. Tore the house down against Umaga.

 

I'll always fondly remember that Rumble where he made his surprise return from injury at MSG. The fans popped like mental before realising that they had to boo him... but still cheered the finish when he won it. It's on Video/DVD/Network you cretins, you can't deny that you marked out.

 

He did the best he could with the Nexus angle. Had that incredible feud with CM Punk. Piddled around the midcard for a bit before getting his redemption against The Rock.

 

Then he started busting out Springboards and Canadian Destroyers in the best US Title run of the modern era. Yet he still "only has 5 moves!" Put Kevin Owens over clean on his main roster PPV debut only to have fans continue to moan about him.

 

Now the fucker is tearing the place down against AJ Styles.

 

John Cena is the common denominator of almost every 5 snowflake classic in the last 10 years or so. He doesn't suck. He can wrestle. He's the fucking man.

[PowerButchi]

 

I don't care for him much after 2002 either. That fucking "acting". Him selling a broken arm is the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life, well 2nd to his cringeworthy "I'm sorry, I love you".

His hammy acting is awful, and IMO got worse as his career went on. But his matches, pre or post '02, speak for themselves. I even think the ladder match was Razor has stood the test of time as a classic, even after all that has happened since. 

 

 

I've never dug him much. I've been pushed even further away by WWE's self driven narrative of him being some kind of wrestling jesus greater than any other to enter the ring in history. To be honest I probably prefer his superb stuff with Jannetty vs Rose and Somers than I do any of his singles WWF stuff. Actually, I'd say I rate him far more in tags than singles. I love the Rockers, but him on his own has never done too much for me. Just found him "solid".

[Powerful_Fox]

Thanks again Liam mate, 2 for 2 with suggestions now, pretty good going!

 

One of the one's I mentioned in the chat to you I will bring up here too in an attempt to create a bit of discussion...

 

 

I hate, hate, hated the Mike Tyson storyline of 1998, it bored me senseless. Granted at the time I was 10 so it might have been above my simple head but all I saw was a bloke who Vince McMahon was falling over and all he was doing was half arsed D-X chops and saying "Cold Thtone". My brother was (and still is) older than me so was a little smarter with the business and so it trickled down that it was a big acquisition etc. Even still it bored the life out of me, D-X being chuffed to bits to pop a shirt on him and have him as one of their own... urgh the chop. These guys are supposed to be cool as fuck and are telling the "man" to "suck it" are swooning over this smirking bell-end like he is a god.

 

This is after Austin and him had their little hoo-ha and they pushed each other a little bit, c'mon. Austin is meant to be, in his own words, "The world's toughest son-of-a-bitch" and Tyson is the proclaimed "baddest man on the planet"... and what do they do? They shove each other a little bit. It was shit. The best parts of that particular angle solely involved Vince/Austin, Austin telling Vince not to say a damn word or he'll punch his lights out too and Vince yelling "You ruined it damn it" while kicking at Austin comically through the ropes... I will concede that was funny.

 

The payoff at the end with Tyson actually having an Austin shirt on was bollocks too. Pointless. All that is left is Micheals leaving the company for a bit and Austin winning by a quick count.

 

It wasn't Austin who "ruined it", it was Tython. The fucking bellend.

 

 

 

 

That is the main one. The other is Umaga, for far more trivial reasons of I thought he was midcard at best and shouldn't have gone anywhere near the main event. Didn't think he was particularly good and although he played the gimmick well enough, it wasn't a main event gimmick in my eyes. Simple with that one really, but people seem massively complimentary of him.

[Otto Dem Wanz]

DX were a piss poor, unfunny, uncool version of the nWo.

 

Every iteration of them.

[Killjoy_Gee]

Completely agree with you Neil, John Cena has consistently delivered in big match situations - sure he has the odd stinker (the only one I can really remember being disappointed by is Rock/Cena II) but that's being human.

He doesn't take himself too seriously - see his self deprecating promos, and a fantastic "here's my heel turn" gesture - and busts his ass with that schedule. Make a wish, promoting the shows etc. He has grabbed the torch and just completely run with it.

 

All this bullshit about he should turn heel - the second he does all the neck beards would just start cheering for him defeating the purpose entirely.

 

And you've mentioned all his excellent matches - who else performed against Khali the same way? Undertaker sure didn't!

 

John Cena is the man

[LEGIT]

 

 

I don't care for him much after 2002 either. That fucking "acting". Him selling a broken arm is the worst thing I've ever seen in my entire life, well 2nd to his cringeworthy "I'm sorry, I love you".

His hammy acting is awful, and IMO got worse as his career went on. But his matches, pre or post '02, speak for themselves. I even think the ladder match was Razor has stood the test of time as a classic, even after all that has happened since. 

 

 

I've never dug him much. I've been pushed even further away by WWE's self driven narrative of him being some kind of wrestling jesus greater than any other to enter the ring in history. To be honest I probably prefer his superb stuff with Jannetty vs Rose and Somers than I do any of his singles WWF stuff. Actually, I'd say I rate him far more in tags than singles. I love the Rockers, but him on his own has never done too much for me. Just found him "solid".

 

Fair enough, I too love The Rockers, but I think my favourite run for them both was when they were wrestling each other. Almost every match they had was killer, I think they may have had one on PPV that was a letdown. I'm not sure. But yeah, great feud 

[Love-Wilcox]

To say pre 2002 Shawn Michaels is 'pure garbage' is just fucking silly.

My head tells me that's silly too but my heart says otherwise.

 

I don't mind Michaels post 2002 but I can take or leave him.

[Michael_3165]

I relly disliked Stone Cold Steve Austin in his run in 1998-1999 and was constantly wishing that Vince would one-up the Texas Rattlesnake. I have always been one for the rules and for respecting authority so for me to have a guy that run roughshod over the boss in the biggest feud of 1998 make me feel nauseated! I was also a mega Undertaker fan in 1997-1999 and whenever Austin one upped Taker I would want to boot the TV across the room.

 

I was, however, thoroughly impressed with Austin's heel turn in 2001 and the subsequent work he did in the Invasion angle. I really enjoyed the invasion storyline too and I know a lot of people really thought they missed the boat with that one. 

 

I loved WrestleMania 13 for the whole show (including the main event) not just the submission match. It was my first WrestleMania as a young teen and I was hooked on the WWF at the time. The Chicago Street Fight is still one of my favourite 'hardcore' style matches, the Rock vs Sultan is terrible but I love it just as much as I love Goldust vs HHH. 

 

Finally I have always held the belief that Ric Flair is one of the most over-rated performers in the past forty years. I have watched a huge number of his matches from NWA all the way through to his WWE stint and whilst he was ahead of his time he had the same match over and over again with little variation at all. He was a brilliant talker (he and MIchaels were the reason I bought WM24) but there are many that could do his MOVEZ better and his matches were often very predictable. He was before my era of watching but I can still sit back and love Savage vs Steamboat of that era so I don't believe it is that I am a 90s fan and that is that. 

[The King Of Swing]

I don't give a shit how bad his heel turn was for business in the long run, comedy Steve Austin was some of the best fun I have ever had watching wrestling.

 

Tazz: What does my watch say?

Austin: I don't know it's speaking Spanish.

 

Wonderful.

[TheLowdown1987]

Hogan is indeed the greatest of all time and any shit he gets for his career up until 2005 is completely unjustified. A legend, the greatest, the end.