Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[hallicks]

You've made the common mistake of thinking your own hardcore fan leanings are the same as a casual Raw viewer's -- in reality, there'll usually be quite a difference. It's fine to like a wrestling show without convincing yourself Raw would be more watched following its template, just like it's fine to like a wrestler without thinking they should win the belt every night.

 

As a litmus test for how close your mindset probably is to the average viewer, ask yourself who are your five favourite performers on Raw?

 

Bryan, Rollins... Mizdow? Heyman... I'm struggling.

 

I don't think replicating NXT into a 3 hour show will fix all of Raw's woes, but I'm pretty sure the current formula is fooked. My wife's probably a good example of a casual fan. She'll watch it a bit and knows who most of the people are, but probably pays attention for 5 minutes during a 3 hour show (or whatever it is when you fast forward through the breaks). But again, I'm just finding it hard to imagine these people who aren't that invested in the product sitting down for 3 hours on Monday to watch Raw. Objectively, it's not a good TV show.

[tiger_rick]

Objectively it draws a live audience of many thousands and a TV audience of over three and a half million every single week in a ridiculously competitive entertainment climate. It doesn't always suit me and many others but you can't possibly argue that it's not a good TV show.

 

"Raw is a fucking abysmal television show about 98% of the time"

 

Utter tosh even from the perspective of a "hardcore fan" but complete and utter bullshit when you consider the masses in their audience who aren't.

 

"Who is watching Raw apart from die-hard fans?"

 

How they've maintained live attendances is impressive. Their audience is still impressive. Their network numbers are impressive. Their appeal around the world is insane. There are a lot of people in a lot of industries who'd give their cock with secretary still attached for die-hard fans like those.

 

There are tons of things I think they could do better but you can't possibly argue that the whole thing needs fixing as long as they maintain such an impressive level of interest.

 

Here's a question. Who is watching NXT? How many people? Anywhere near enough to take risks on? How many viewers would they gain from booking Raw like NXT? How many would they lose? Enough either way to make it worthwhile? I don't think so.

[SpursRiot2012]

It is quite often a bad show. It has good episodes here and there, but those are few and far between. That lots of other people (live audience, TV audience) watch is regularly doesn't make it a good TV show. Plenty of shite watched by much more than 3 million people on telly.

 

That's not to say, "make it like NXT" will fix it. I have no idea since I don't watch NXT.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I dont know a television show in history that would still keep their executive producer if they lost the sheer amount of television viewers the WWE has lost over the years. WWE seems to ignore that, though. Kevin Dunne shouldn't be still there anymore. He's had his time. The WWE needs someone in charge of the television who isn't a shut in who still listens to Creed in 2015. As a fan of 25 years I shouldn't be skipping months worth of Raw until they wheel the blokes over 40 or 50 out. I'm not saying put Raw in front of 400 people in a University. I'm saying the ideas implimented in NXT could be used on Raw and Smackdown. Because there's nothing original on NXT. Its not even that creative. Its as simple as you can possibly get.

Edited February 16, 2015 by IANdrewDiceClay

[tiger_rick]

I dont know a television show in history that would still keep their executive producer if they lost the sheer amount of television viewers the WWE has lost over the years. WWE seems to ignore that, though. Kevin Dunne shouldn't be still there anymore. He's had his time. The WWE needs someone in charge of the television who isn't a shut in who still listens to Creed in 2015. As a fan of 25 years I shouldn't be skipping months worth of Raw until they wheel the blokes over 40 or 50 out. I'm not saying put Raw in front of 400 people in a University. I'm saying the ideas implimented in NXT could be used on Raw and Smackdown. Because there's nothing original on NXT. Its not even that creative. Its as simple as you can possibly get.

Can't argue with the Dunn stuff. He's an arsehole who hasn't had a bright idea since god knows when.

 

I'm not sure about the viewers though. The scope for entertainment has changed so much in the last ten years that a drop was always likely. They can obviously find more viewers on a regular basis because they'll jump up once in a while over 4 million and towards 5 sometimes but in today's world, where attention spans are short, they've done pretty well to maintain an audience that appeals to major networks.

 

I'm not blindly defending the product. Some weeks I think the whole thing is shit. I just don't think the answer lies in "Do what they do with NXT".

[hallicks]

Objectively it draws a live audience of many thousands and a TV audience of over three and a half million every single week in a ridiculously competitive entertainment climate. It doesn't always suit me and many others but you can't possibly argue that it's not a good TV show.

 

 

I can and will, until it stops being terrible. Drawing the crowd is impressive, yes. But look at them after 30 minutes. Sitting on their hands, not giving a shit about anything that happens. Week after week, it's been going on for months. Production values alone do not make a good show, and right now, that's about all Raw has got going for it. You sound like one of the "Did you know?" WWE propaganda bumpers. Ratings are hovering just above their lowest ebb back in 96-97. Almost all the TV matches are exactly the same, and almost no-one gets over because there's no consistent booking. There's enough talent on the roster to make the show just about passable but you don't finish watching Raw feeling pumped, you feel relieved that's it's all over for another week. Anyway, dancing with the stars starts up in 2 weeks so that'll be something more fun to watch on a Monday night.

 

Regarding NXT, I did say "I don't think replicating NXT into a 3 hour show will fix all of Raw's woes," so I don't know who you're arguing that point with.

[sivy]

 

The Rumble match has alot of quality names Undertaker, Kane, Eddie Guerrero, Jeff Hardy, Edge, Shawn Michaels, Jericho, Cena, Batista, Mysterio, Booker T, RVD and more I'm forgetting.

 

 

Suppose it depends on where these names are ranked or get placed against 92 roster.

 

Another thing is noticed is how colourful and different everyones ring gear is compared to now, Y2J in purple and blue, HBK in red, Cena in jeans, Matt Hardy in red trousers, Team Angle in usa colours, 3 minute warning wearing 'gangsta' street clothes and Rosie looks indentical to Reigns I know they're brothers but still, very little black and very easy to indentify who everyone is

It's about context, not just about the names on paper. Several of the names mentioned there in there are only considered huge names now based on what they went on to do since, i.e. recognized World Champions, in terms of Eddie, Hardy, Edge, Cena, Batista, Mysterio and Van Dam. I'm being generous including Kane for his one day with the WWF title and Booker T winning four world titles when WCW was a shell of its former self then one more when the belt was being defended on WWF telly. Including Kane and Booker you have Lesnar, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Jericho for a total of five guys that had at one point been recognized as the World Champion by one of the two biggest companies in the States.

 

In 1992, you had four men acknowledged as former WWF Champions in the ring - Hogan, Randy Savage, Undertaker and Sgt Slaughter, as well as Col Mustafa who had been the WWF Champion previously, as you'll all know, as Sheiky Baby. You also had Kerry Von Erich and OF COURSE Ric Flair, who had been NWA World Heavyweight Champions when that belt was on a par with the WWF title for prestige, so you have seven former World Champions in the ring. On top of that you have several former Intercontinental champions, which in the era of 2/3 shows a day could make a main eventer of you anywhere in the country and was a much bigger honour than the same achievement (or the US title) represented in 2003. Off the top of my head you had Valentine and Tito Santana, as well as the current Intercontinental Champion Roddy Piper, who had drawn a FUCKTON of money working with Hogan. Rick Martel had no doubt seen a gate or two as AWA World Champion. Moreover, due to the "boom" period, it cannot be overstated how big of a star various guys in that match were, even without any title pedigree to back them up. You can easily argue that in 1992 a Ted DiBiase, Davey Boy Smith or Jake Roberts was as big a star or bigger than many of the guys that DID hold a world title (especially the Big Gold Belt) in WWE in the early C21st.

 

Not saying that 2003 isn't an impressive roster but in terms of STARS or how I perceive them, it doesn't touch 1992 in the context of the time each match took place.

I was watching the 1990 Rumble really for second time and the star power within the first 10 really was amazing. You had Dibase, Rhodes, Savage, Piper, Roberts, Bret. It really was surreal. Then to end the rumble you had Warrior, Rude, Perfect, Hogan, Michaels.

[Sphinx]

They definitely need some younger people writing main TV in a bigger capacity. When you get the odd reference to a celeb news story, it's crowbarred in by an awkward commentator and isn't particularly funny. It comes across as lame.

 

Like what the fuck is New Day? How's that going to work? I don't think Tyler Breeze executes the character all that well, but anyone can look at him and think 'urgh, he's using a fucking selfie stick to record himself going to the ring. What a dick'. They're new and we've all seen them. What the fuck relevancy does New Day have?

[Bosco Blick]

The Blue Meanie is a fat cunt.

[EdgarTheSlouch]

The Blue Meanie is a fat cunt.

Im shocked and stunned at this revelation.

[Bosco Blick]

 

 

The Blue Meanie is a fat cunt.

Im shocked and stunned at this revelation.

Do you know him personally?

[RIDDUM_N_STYLE]

 

 

The Blue Meanie is a fat cunt.

Im shocked and stunned at this revelation.

Do you know him personally?

 

Whoosh!!!

[herbie747]

Is it true that HBK was ready to come back to WWF in 1999, but they didn't want him back because things were going well and they didn't need him & his attitude poisoning the locker room?

[air_raid]

Is it true that HBK was ready to come back to WWF in 1999, but they didn't want him back because things were going well and they didn't need him & his attitude poisoning the locker room?

 

Less to do with attitude, more to do with the fact they could never count on him not showing up smashed out of his mind on pain pills. Him costing Rock his title match against Trips on the first SmackDown was supposed to lead to an actual storyline, but Michaels could not be relied upon to be in condition to go out in front of the cameras every week, even in a non-wrestling capacity. He was a fucking mess.

[PowerButchi]

Lister can fill in gaps here, but he was apparently meant to originally come back in 2001 before WM X7 but was off his tits.