Motor Racing Nirvana

[windoesnot]

Makes you wonder what Pastor has to do to get a race ban this year.

 

What Romain did at the start was fucking bandit driving, glad no one was hurt as it was a nasty crash.

[BigJag]

Who makes up the Stewards panel? Nigel Mansell always seems to be around in some form of official role. Is he on the panel?

[LariatTom]

The stewards panel changes from race to race. There are (I think) three stewards who sit at a race and a driver expert, who this weekend was Eliseo Salazar (who had his big moment in F1 when Nelson Piquet tried to kick the shit out of him at Hockenheim in the 1980s). The decision to ban Grosjean is an interesting one...I can see why it has been done since it was a dangerous move and we nearly saw a major injury to Alonso, but the actual wording of the stewards' decision is what gets me. "Eliminating title contenders" is what gets me. I'll just re-post what I wrote on another forum last night after driving standards came up:

 

There's definitely some dodgy driving in GP2 and GP3, but I think that a lot of the time, they do that sort of thing because they've seen that by and large, you can get away with that sort of thing in F1. You'll either get a drive through penalty or a grid penalty at the next race.

 

Banning Grosjean with the reason being for taking out two title contenders is ridiculous. It was a reckless incident, and to be fair to him, he's accepted responsibility and taken his punishment. In an ideal world, there's be some sort of consistency with stewards and punishments and any incident involving a title contender would be treated with the same severity.

 

Take it one step further, make it known to drivers in the lower formulae that they can't get away with causing accidents. If they do, they'll be punished. Do that, aim to improve driving standards and get rid of reckless accidents so that when the few drivers that do progress to F1 finally get there, they aren't making these sorts of errors.

 

Of course, it's the FIA we're talking about, so it'll never happen.

 

As I said, the wording of saying that his eliminating title contenders is the main reason for the race ban is what gets me. Does that mean that the stewards rate Alonso and co. and their health as being more important than say, Pic and Petrov? If Grosjean had hit them on lap 1, would there still be the same punishment? Also, it's an accident at the start of the race...there's always that risk of an incident happening. Even if they went from a rolling start like in a lot of other forms of motorsport, while the risk of incident is reduced, it still remains.

 

I'm not condoning the accident or saying that Grosjean doesn't deserve his punishment, and to his credit, he has accepted it. But the standard of both driving in F1 and stewarding has to be brought into question. Standards need to improve across junior formulae and stewards need to be consistent with punishments. If (for example) Perez takes out Vettel and Raikkonen going into T1 at Monza on Sunday, I would expect him to be given a race ban too because he has taken out title contenders. If Maldonado has another accident, I would expect a race ban.

 

There's no consistency.

 

The argument for closed canopies in F1 has been brought up again now and it's looking fairly likely that we'll see them introduced in the next few years (probably 2014) now to try and prevent any serious injuries/deaths in future.

[jimufctna24]

Maldonado does have a 10 place grid pen for his jump start and another incident at Spa.

 

It is becoming a weekly event he gets into trouble, its a shame because he is beloved in his homeland and as said on SKY it is nice to see a driver from a poor background make it to such a level.

 

Could it not be that the stewards have been strict with Romian due to the high profile of the crash in order to maintain P.R relations? It sounds like it as they would not face as much outcry if say a HRT driver took at 3 backmarkers, it is a complete double standard still, but just trying to see a method in their madness.

 

Maybe the solution would be to have the same stewards at each race if that were possible maybe that would allow more consistency. 2014 will bring a lot of changes and new regulations from what I have heard.

 

Off Topic, but I ordered Edge of Greatness by James Allen tonight and Eddie Jordan's book, anyone else have any other F1 books that are worth a look, I already own Life Of Senna which I adored and Chequered Conflict.

Edited September 3, 2012 by jimufctna24

[Monkee]

I really wish the FIA would come up with some sort of consistent penalty system. The number of accidents caused by Maldonado far outweigh what Grosjean did yesterday. Ok, it was a bad accident but to get a one race ban when other drivers have barely been penalised for similar is ridiculous. It's so annoying and makes people dislike particular teams/drivers more because they think there's favouritism involved. If there was one penalty system that was clear in 'if this is what you do, this will be the consequence' then it would be so much better.

 

As for F1-related books, check out Professor Sid Watkins' Life at the Limit. A great insight into the health and safety aspect of the sport and how [mainly] one man changed it all.

[windoesnot]

Off Topic, but I ordered Edge of Greatness by James Allen tonight and Eddie Jordan's book, anyone else have any other F1 books that are worth a look, I already own Life Of Senna which I adored and Chequered Conflict.

 

Once I get home ill give you a list of the good ones I have, theres quite a few of them

[jimufctna24]

Thanks guys.

[windoesnot]

Thanks guys.

 

Malcolm Folley - Prost vs Senna

Shunt - The Story Of James Hunt (a very, very long book)

Alex Zanardi - My Story

Perry McCarthy - Flat Out, Flat Broke

Martin Brundle - Working The Wheel

Steve Machett - The Mechanics Tale

Jackie Stewart - Winning Is Not Enough

Murray Walker - Unless Im Very Much Mistaken

 

You already have The Life Of Senna which is also a great book.

 

Autocourse annuals are also a great read if you can find them for a reasonable price, especially if theres a particular year you are interested in.

[WWFChilli]

Prost Vs Senna is a fantastic book. It certainly vindicates Prost a bit more and shows a more rounded side to his story.

[jimufctna24]

Thanks Windoesnot, I will get the Brundle and James Hunt next.

 

I may steer clear of Senna vs Prost as I hear it is biased against Senna as the author is in love with Prost as he granted him a interview. I know the excellent Senna film is harsh on Prost, but it does present the truth and makes Prost stumble in the interview with him in the extended version.

 

Life of Senna a feel provided the most well-rounded view, as the author does admit Senna's flaws and can give Prost credit where its due.

[windoesnot]

Thanks Windoesnot, I will get the Brundle and James Hunt next.

 

I may steer clear of Senna vs Prost as I hear it is biased against Senna as the author is in love with Prost as he granted him a interview. I know the excellent Senna film is harsh on Prost, but it does present the truth and makes Prost stumble in the interview with him in the extended version.

 

Life of Senna a feel provided the most well-rounded view, as the author does admit Senna's flaws and can give Prost credit where its due.

 

So you know if you didnt already, Brundles book is about race tracks rather than being a biography on his life, although it does have his memories on the tracks when he goes through each one.

 

I wouldnt exactly say the Prost vs Senna book is that biased although I doubt there would be anything ever published that doesnt in some way favour one over the other as they were such polar opposites of each other.

 

If you are a fan of Senna, there is a great book that was published back in 2009 Senna: Memories and Momentoes from a Life Lived at Full Speed. Its a book that contains some of the very best pictures throughout his career and also has copies of various momentoes such as his racing licences, hand written letters, contracts and the like:

 

http://www.haynes.co.uk/press/Releases_HTM...ess_release.htm

 

Not sure if you can get it anymore though.

[jimufctna24]

Yeah Senna and Prost were opposites it is hard to find someone who is really impartial, Senna is my hero so I may have to track down that book you mentioned, I think I have seen it on Amazon and Waterstones, Hilton did that and another book about his career I think

 

Thanks for telling me what Brundle's is about, I think I will give it a go.

 

I have to disagree with BBC Top 20 Drivers, they have put Vettel in at number 8 today above Hamiliton and Alonso. Kimi has not made the list. I know he is a double World Champion but much like Prost in 1993 and Schumi in 2002/2004 he won mainly last year due to how good his car was. 2010 was very close as well and could have gone either way.

 

Here is the list so far - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19487080

 

I rate Alonso and Hamiliton over Vettel it is hard to compare different eras but I think at this point Hakkinen is better also, yet he is beneath Vettel as well.

 

I am only 25 so for my lifetime my top 5 will be as of right now.

 

Senna

Schumi

Prost

Hakkinen

Alonso

Edited September 5, 2012 by jimufctna24

[windoesnot]

Aye have seen the list as its been counted down with each race so far by the BBC.

 

I've always been one of those who thinks its very difficult to rate drivers over such a long period of time against each other because of the different era's F1 has been through (e.g. compare Fangio to Alonso when they never raced each other in equal machinery or been in the same race). Its also difficult in terms of out right results to compare because as you said, often its the best car(s) winning which has often been the case since F1 began (eg 1995 was the only one of Schumachers seven titles he won without having the fastest or equal fastest car on the grid throughout the year, not saying he wasnt great but he wouldnt have won seven titles without a car like he had in 01/02/04).

 

I personally rate Alonso the best driver on the grid as much as I dislike the cunt and the team he drives for. Hamilton I see as the out and out fastest driver but not the best all round. No one else on the grid can match Alonso for getting the best out of the car and getting it results that it shouldnt.

 

As a fan of Button (and since seeing him in Formula Ford in 1998), I know hes not the quickest driver on the grid and when the car isnt right he can be pretty average as he just cannot find a way to adapt and wring the most out of an under performing car. However his race craft and judgement in changing conditions is as good as anyone else currently and when the car suits his driving style, he can put in a dominant performance like in early 2009.

[The Natural]

Lewis Hamilton to leave McLaren and drive for Mercedes next season according to Eddie Jordan. BBC Radio 5 Live has just reported it.

[jimufctna24]

Lewis Hamilton to leave McLaren and drive for Mercedes next season according to Eddie Jordan. BBC Radio 5 Live has just reported it.

FUCKING HELL!

 

I heard that it was a done deal with McLaren, exciting times

 

I agree that Alonso is the best all rounder with Lewis being the fastest, I think if Lewis gets the right car (and I am not sure Mercedes is it) he could prove himself better than Alonso. Having said that for Alonso to be top with the Ferrari this year is exceptional, if he can keep it there is another question though, McLaren, Lotus and Red Bull look to be much quicker.

 

I like Button, I felt he was fantastic last year being the only driver to beat Lewis head to head in the same team. But as said he is very average at times.

Edited September 5, 2012 by jimufctna24