Paid Members Dead Mike Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Which is why the UFC have struggled to get past the 'just bleed' stereotype. By not rewarding the best fighters (ie. Competitors that win) & chasing PPV buys, great for a short term $$$ boost but not a business model to compete on a larger scale with established sporting organisations. Fox won't give a fuck whether it's seen as legit sport as long as it brings in revenue. It's whether it can stand shoulder to shoulder with American Football etc in 5 years time or be seen as 'pro-wrestling for adults' as David rightly said. Would I rather see GSP/Diaz than GSP/Condit? Hell yes. Was it a bullshit thing of the UFC to do & make them look like a bunch of cowboys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Not specifically, again I brought it up because we're talking about rankings, which is essentially a league, which is commonly used in football. I never mentioned using a league system or points in any proposed UFC rankings though, just to be clear. Â this is such a stupid argument, bottom line is a rankings system would not work. The UFC can have a rankings system and maybe display it on screen/website and give people are perspective of where people stand, but matchmaking cannot be determined from such a list, there's way too many obstacles in the way of making it work effectively. It's not a stupid argument, it's a discussion. That's what these forums are for, are they not? Â Both myself and I think it was Mike have said since the start that such a ranking system would be there to simply assist casual & new fans to the sport in seeing who is where in the grand scheme of things. Â It would also allow for us to know who are the top two or three contenders for each title. Â In PRIZE fighting contests are made differently to any other sport, it's fucking annoying me that people keep saying 'UFC is a real sport now', it's always been a real sport, but fighting doesn't work like other structured sports, you put together fights that either a) make sense as to where two guys stand in a supposed rankings system, b) what fans want to see/what makes the most money c) just let two guys fight that simply don't like each other, that's the beauty/appeal of it. No, we're not saying that UFC is a "real sport now", we're saying that it's actually operating on a network alongside other legit sports. It has wanted this breakthrough for fucking years and now it has it. Â We also aren't talking about putting together every fight depending on the rankings. We're talking about title fights. In pro wrestling being the champion and the main event means you draw the most money, and that's fine & good because it's not a real sport. Â In sports being a champion and the main event means that you are the best in your division, league etc. You either hold the title or you've earned that title shot by beating the best in the division. Â If the UFC choose to put Leonard Garcia vs Korean fucking Zombie III on the undercard to keep the Affliction t-shirt crew happy then fair enough. A fight card needs to be made up of many aspects, including all-out brawls which feature guys who's main skill is being able to get hit in the head a lot. That's fine. Â Even put a co-main event featuring the outlandish characters into the mix. All fine & good. Â When it comes to title fights though, the challenger being able to talk trash or flip off the crowd has to come 2nd to him being able to actually fight and him being deserving of the shot. Â The UFC have already made some changes for the FOX shows, and I'm hoping some more are on the way. It would be a shame to see them get this far then fuck it up by looking silly on the big stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you're gonna have rankings surely is it has to across the board and not just for a select few? Otherwise that will lead to people being pissed off about not being ranked and passed up when a fight is made for another reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 To be fair, most low card fights now that feature fighters that aren't seen to be in the 'top ten' of the division (something Rogan often refers to that's never qualified obviously) are pretty much exhibition fights so it wouldn't make that much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Not specifically, again I brought it up because we're talking about rankings, which is essentially a league, which is commonly used in football. I never mentioned using a league system or points in any proposed UFC rankings though, just to be clear. Â this is such a stupid argument, bottom line is a rankings system would not work. The UFC can have a rankings system and maybe display it on screen/website and give people are perspective of where people stand, but matchmaking cannot be determined from such a list, there's way too many obstacles in the way of making it work effectively. I Â Both myself and I think it was Mike have said since the start that such a ranking system would be there to simply assist casual & new fans to the sport in seeing who is where in the grand scheme of things. Â Â Â but there already is, MMA Live and Inside MMA along with countless websites have rankings systems, if the fans need that to follow the sport it's there for them. If the UFC introduced a rankings system onto it's broadcast's, i'd have no problem with it, but you can't read them things like they are the gospel, it just wont work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 The fact that it's not coming from the organisation itself & is just guesswork from pundits would be a big difference to a casual fan though wouldn't it? If you're watching UFC programming it's not that far fetched to be able to expect to see how specific UFC fighters are fairing as opposed to having to find an alternative programme & see their best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you're gonna have rankings surely is it has to across the board and not just for a select few? Obviously they'll be in the same ballpark as each other, but the main attraction of rankings is seeing who the top 5 guys in each division are. Those are the guys fighting in title fights and so forth. Â As an interesting aside, if anyone has a chance listen to the Sherdog Rewind podcast from Sunday night. It features a good interview with Cesar Gracie in which he mentions the fact that Nick doesn't like the idea that he's getting the titleshot against GSP on the basis of him painting himself as "the bad guy" in some sort of fake script. Â He also says something that's similar to what I said a few days ago in that Diaz should never have been dropped from the title fight in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Which is why the UFC have struggled to get past the 'just bleed' stereotype. By not rewarding the best fighters (ie. Competitors that win) & chasing PPV buys, great for a short term $$$ boost but not a business model to compete on a larger scale with established sporting organisations. Fox won't give a fuck whether it's seen as legit sport as long as it brings in revenue. It's whether it can stand shoulder to shoulder with American Football etc in 5 years time or be seen as 'pro-wrestling for adults' as David rightly said. Would I rather see GSP/Diaz than GSP/Condit? Hell yes. Was it a bullshit thing of the UFC to do & make them look like a bunch of cowboys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 The fact that it's not coming from the organisation itself & is just guesswork from pundits would be a big difference to a casual fan though wouldn't it? If you're watching UFC programming it's not that far fetched to be able to expect to see how specific UFC fighters are fairing as opposed to having to find an alternative programme & see their best guess. what's the difference? it's going to be 'guess work' whoever puts it out. If there was a rankings system, for it to work properly you'd need 1 to fight 2, 3 to fight 4, 5 to fight 6 etc. Â Will never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 in response to David... Â errr, then why did Nick parade around the ring after Saturday fight shouting 'where you at George, where you at muthafucker?'. Nick Diaz wasn't placed in that posisiton, he put himself in that position. Whether it was intentional or not, he only got himself to blame for the situation he finds himself in. Â You trying to tell me that any fight fan woke up Sunday morning thinking "can't wait for Condit/GSP", no they all woke up thinking "Diaz/GSP needs to happen now!", the UFC realised it, made it, the buildup will be intense, ill be watching with a beer in hand and i'll be happy as shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 check out ESPN's 170 rankings...  ESPN Rankings  who's no.1 and no. 2? who are fighting next? what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 When the UFC hits FOX it's going to have a whole new audience that it can tap into. If those potential fans are fans of other sports they'll immediately turn to a ranking system of some sort to see who's the best in the division and so forth. US sports fans love their rankings & stats, that's a fact!  Of course we all love exciting fights, but the fact remains that if the UFC consider themselves a sport they have to accept the fact that the best fighters aren't always going to be the most exciting. It happens in all sports.  You know that UEFA would love a Champions League final between Man Utd & Barcelona every year because it's two exciting teams and it would generate more excitement. Unfortunately if a team like Porto put together the wins to get themselves a crack at the big one they have to give them it, they can't simply say "well, the fans don't want to see that one, so fuck you Porto!"  The reason the UFC won't put out an official ranking system is because they don't want to have to admit that someone like Jon Fitch is right up there when it comes to the title picture, despite him only having ever lost to the current champion in the past 10 years.  They want the recognition and prestige that comes with being a legit sports league, but they want to run it like a pro wrestling company.  in response to David... errr, then why did Nick parade around the ring after Saturday fight shouting 'where you at George, where you at muthafucker?'. Nick Diaz wasn't placed in that posisiton, he put himself in that position. Whether it was intentional or not, he only got himself to blame for the situation he finds himself in. I'm only going by what his manager said. Listen to the interview. He said that Dana & the UFC encouraged them to do that because they knew that GSP would be in the crowd. It's a work, my friend. Diaz doesn't "hate" GSP, and Gracie said that neither of them believe that GSP was pretending to be injured.  You trying to tell me that any fight fan woke up Sunday morning thinking "can't wait for Condit/GSP", no they all woke up thinking "Diaz/GSP needs to happen now!", the UFC realised it, made it, the buildup will be intense, ill be watching with a beer in hand and i'll be happy as shit. The build-up will be fake, Ebb. Your smart enough to know that. The shit-talking will be as false as the shit-talking between Hogan and Sting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yeh i know the buildup's are a certain degree are fabricated, but isn't that what makes MMA/Boxing fun and unique? You are trying to rip the fucking soul out of the whole thing, if you're so concerned that things aint being done 'like a real sport' go and watch something else, because MMA is not going to change. Fight promotion is not going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 David, explain to me how you think a rankings system will work effectively and i'll shut up...seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yeh i know the buildup's are a certain degree are fabricated, but isn't that what makes MMA/Boxing fun and unique? You are trying to rip the fucking soul out of the whole thing, if you're so concerned that things aint being done 'like a real sport' go and watch something else, because MMA is not going to change. Fight promotion is not going to change. Â For a lot of people it is, myself included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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