David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yeh i know the buildup's are a certain degree are fabricated, but isn't that what makes MMA/Boxing fun and unique? You are trying to rip the fucking soul out of the whole thing, if you're so concerned that things aint being done 'like a real sport' go and watch something else, because MMA is not going to change. Fight promotion is not going to change. No, what's happening is they're diluting what makes certain fights great. When a fight comes along between two top level fighters who do genuinely dislike each other, either on a professional or personal basis, it's something great. The series that Chuck Liddell had with both Wanderlei & Rampage were on that level. Â When the UFC are encouraging this to happen frequently it takes away from the great fights, as fans get used to the idea of it all being bullshit and don't buy into it when there is a real situation involving professional or personal rivalry. Â Perhaps the UFC should concentrate on the fact that both St-Pierre and Diaz are the top two guys in their weight class, and that this fight is a bout between the two champions of the top two US promotions of the past five or six years. Â Diaz, on an unbeaten streak of 10 fights over the past five years, and St-Pierre, on an unbeaten streak of 9 fights over the past five years. The facts speak for themselves. Â Instead we'll get some unintelligible profanity-laced insults from Diaz along with some classic "angry faces" whilst GSP tells us that he'll "do his talking in the cage" whilst smiling uncomfortably. Â I hate to keep repeating myself, but go listen to the interview with Gracie. He pretty much says the same thing. Diaz and St-Pierre should be built on the accolades and accomplishments of the two fighters, not some manufactured bullshit. Â As for how I'd make a ranking system work, read back in this thread and you'll see plenty of instances of how I'd make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I will say I enjoy and invest in UFC/MMA much more when there is a feud like Diaz/GSP, Lesnar/Mir or Sonnen/Silva. One of the first things that attracted me to the sport was the Liddel/Ortiz rivalry. Â That said I have been hooked by fights and rivalries that have been just about who is the best, without trash talk or hatred. Such as Liddel/Couture and the recent Primetime featuring JDS/Cain managed to be ingrossing somehow despite no Pro Wrestling theatrics. Â If JDS vs Cain was on PPV though I think it would be a bomb, the PPV audience wants a feud they can sink their teeth into. That is why GSP/Diaz will draw big, I think Diaz is number 2 in the world right now and the rightful number one contender, the same goes for Sonnen/Silva. I had no problem with Condit stepping aside, espically since Diaz has done a tiny bit more to get a title shot with that BJ win. I could understand why some are moaning though as Condit had a title shot penciled in to be taken away from him, through zero fault of his own, it was a tough call and Dana went where the bucks were and what the audience and GSP himself wanted. Â The only fights that I can think of that have been commercial sucesses on PPV without a mega villian like Lesnar or a feud is Couture vs Liddel. Boxing is very similar as well, just that title belts in the UFC (at least some of them) are still prestigous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 I hate to keep repeating myself, but go listen to the interview with Gracie. He pretty much says the same thing. Diaz and St-Pierre should be built on the accolades and accomplishments of the two fighters, not some manufactured bullshit. Â Are you trying to tell me that what Nick Diaz showed in the cage after the main event on Saturday night wasn't genuine? i don't care what Gracie says, we've all seen Nick Diaz react like that before, it was no act. The guy's an emotional time bomb, when he's calmed down he might say stuff differently, but in the heat of the battle/moment Nick Diaz is legit. That's what makes him so interesting to watch. Â David it seems to me like you forget that these guys are fighters, they are unique bunch of individuals and the stories that come along with this game (some fabricated, some not) are what makes it so f'n exciting. I'm a fan of many sports but nothing gets my blood going like a fight, it's not a normal sports competition no matter how much you want it to be. Â Stop wanting everything to be so safe you boring fucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Are you trying to tell me that what Nick Diaz showed in the cage after the main event on Saturday night wasn't genuine? i don't care what Gracie says, we've all seen Nick Diaz react like that before, it was no act. The guy's an emotional time bomb, when he's calmed down he might say stuff differently, but in the heat of the battle/moment Nick Diaz is legit. That's what makes him so interesting to watch. It was so genuine that he had someone behind him reminding him to call out St-Pierre? Â Stop wanting everything to be so safe you boring fucker. I don't want it to be "safe", whatever that means. I want guys who have earned titleshots to get them, and perhaps more importantly I don't want it to be fake. If there's bad blood, then fine. But don't feed me fake shit to try and make me interested in a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurryAngel Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It was so genuine that he had someone behind him reminding him to call out St-Pierre? Â To be fair he had just been in a 15 minute fight, with the adrenalin pumping he probably just needed reminding of Georges before going off on his little "where you at Georges?" rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickfan Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I find it brilliant how this has worked out for the UFC. Before the Penn fight, I thought GSP would have vanquished Diaz with ease but beating an elite calibre fighter like Penn makes me think GSP may have more than a little trouble on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I find it brilliant how this has worked out for the UFC. Before the Penn fight, I thought GSP would have vanquished Diaz with ease but beating an elite calibre fighter like Penn makes me think GSP may have more than a little trouble on his hands. Bear in mind that this elite calibre fighter you speak of lost twice to Frankie Edgar at 155lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The worst thing about these manufactured rivalries is when they do fight and end up doing the we-respect-each-other-now hug and then put each other over on the mic. When Kos gave his spiel in Montreal about how he didn't really hate GSP/Canada, it was just so embarrassing. As usual, Harry is right; they should jus build this up as two guys with winning streaks and try and get back to the champion vs. champion idea they had before Uncle Fester fucked it up. Â I was going to say that I didn't think they'd do it but I just watched the UFC build up for Velasquez vs. Dos Santos and it made both guys seem like real nice fellas who are committed to their sport, even if it did make me even more confused about why Cain got that Brown Pride tattoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 It was so genuine that he had someone behind him reminding him to call out St-Pierre? Â To be fair he had just been in a 15 minute fight, with the adrenalin pumping he probably just needed reminding of Georges before going off on his little "where you at Georges?" rant. what i don't get about this whole thing is though is that Diaz' camp were took part in this 'fabrication' yet 2 days later they are saying the UFC told them too, i don't buy it. Â and remember, prior to the fight Saturday, Diaz camp said they would campaign for a fight with GSP if they won, and that's exactly what they did. The comment from Gracie are strange, but Diaz' camp contradict themselves all the time, they are a weird bunch, but again that what's what makes that team so interesting. Â as for the UFC making up hype, they do it to an extent, but that how fight promotion works, they are just trying to sell their fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 I find it brilliant how this has worked out for the UFC. Before the Penn fight, I thought GSP would have vanquished Diaz with ease but beating an elite calibre fighter like Penn makes me think GSP may have more than a little trouble on his hands. Bear in mind that this elite calibre fighter you speak of lost twice to Frankie Edgar at 155lbs. ...and just fought to a draw with the guy widely considered to be the no. 2 170lb fighter on the planet, you forgot that bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The worst thing about these manufactured rivalries is when they do fight and end up doing the we-respect-each-other-now hug and then put each other over on the mic. When Kos gave his spiel in Montreal about how he didn't really hate GSP/Canada, it was just so embarrassing. Â Rampage is the worst for it. Any time he opens his mouth pre-fight these days, you just know from experience that he's talking out of his arse. He could genuinely dislike someone and you wouldn't believe it. He's the boy that cried bad blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 The worst thing about these manufactured rivalries is when they do fight and end up doing the we-respect-each-other-now hug and then put each other over on the mic. When Kos gave his spiel in Montreal about how he didn't really hate GSP/Canada, it was just so embarrassing. As usual, Harry is right; they should jus build this up as two guys with winning streaks and try and get back to the champion vs. champion idea they had before Uncle Fester fucked it up. Â This thing will be promoted on the basis of both guys winning streaks, it will also be promoted on the fact that they are both champions, add in some animosity and you've got a melting pot of goodness. Â Answer me this, when Diaz beat Penn and started shouting shit in the cage, cut to GSP doing the 'im so scared' thing outside the cage, tell me you didn't get excited at that point? Â that one 5 minute post fight part of the PPV sold the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Answer me this, when Diaz beat Penn and started shouting shit in the cage, cut to GSP doing the 'im so scared' thing outside the cage, tell me you didn't get excited at that point? Nope, I certainly didn't. I mean, I was already excited for the fight between Diaz & St-Pierre before Dana decided to be a complete fucking idiot and pull Diaz from the bout. The fact they're both top level fighters, champions from two rival organisations and all of that jazz is more than enough. Â I'd be able to live without the months of staged build-up, featuring Diaz making unintelligible profanity-laced insults whilst GSP says nothing except that he'll do his talking in the cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted November 1, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 well David, you clearly have an opinion and your sticking to your guns but im pretty sure you're in the minority. Â and if you just want to see two guys compete, which at the end of the day GSP and Diaz will, don't watch the buildup, just tune in on fight night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 well David, you clearly have an opinion and your sticking to your guns but im pretty sure you're in the minority. and if you just want to see two guys compete, which at the end of the day GSP and Diaz will, don't watch the buildup, just tune in on fight night. Oh, I'll tune in. It's the fight we should have been getting at the weekend. I think it'll be a classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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