Dirty Eddie Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Did the Punk/Cena headlined PPVs do worse numbers than the events last year then? Or were they just down from this years others PPV shows? SummerSlam 2010 drew 350,000, which was a disappointment and lead to the Nexus getting their unstoppable gimmick taken off then with Cena verbally burying the lot the night after (remember that?!). SummerSlam 2011 hasnt came out yet, but early estimates say that (and this is a quote) "Summerslam is going to shit the bed financially". Money in the Bank was better than last year, but they drew up a plan which said "push his reality based storyline and we'll get THIS amount of buys for sure". They threw the kitchen sick at it leading up to MITB and they never got anywhere near what they were after. It was a huge kick in the balls, because everyone was telling them this would happen. Whatever your opinion of the storyline is, its obvious somewhere somebody has said "fuck this", because there seemed to be a big 180 during after SummerSlam where they pulled back a bit. Its the reason why Vince is back in a few weeks. Its the reason Foley's coming back. Its the reason Nash is back. Its the initial reason why The Rock is back so early. 2001 shows, if buyrates and ratings are on their arse, Vince brings the old boys back. Â It just seems like a ridiculous over-reaction. Sure, they pushed super hard going into Money In The Bank, but how can a buyrate better than last year really be a failure? They tried a pretty much untested guy in the main slot and he did better than last year. It's not like Punk is this huge drag-factor, and that's probably what is annoying me a bit about people's reactions to all this. Â Like you said, they clearly changed plans after Summerslam, and personally I think it has suffered from it. Not because I want more Punk saying "cool, internet, shoot stuff", but because the dynamic of him Vrs cena was great, as were his TV segments, and the angle where he won the belt and blew Vince a kiss goodbye was gold. Most of the stuff they have done since then has been either plain odd, or counterproductive. Â The Trips/Punk match was great at the last show, but a lot of the booking has been far below the MITB build-up, for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loligan Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 MITB was supposed to be 60% up on last years (100,000 buys) but since it's a newish event, it's hardly a cause for celebration. Like Ian said, Summerslam is expected to be low, worse than last year with 5 rookies and Bret Hart in the main event. It's there own fault, they use ppv's now to hype up Monday's Raw. Its meant to be the other way around. Â Look at the fall in Summerslam buyrates from 2006 till now it's fucking shocking! Â Summerslam 2010 - 350,000 Summerslam 2009 - 369,000 Summerslam 2008 - 477,000 Summerslam 2007 - 535,000 Summerslam 2006 - 541,000 Â Every one of them should be fired!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted September 25, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think the success of The Rock's return will only push Vince further into 'old star' mode. The youth movement hasn't worked at all, a combination of WWE messing their midcard up and the likes of Jericho leaving being the reason why. Â It's a shame that they don't have faith in their current roster. When things went tits up in 96 they did things the hard way and pushed new talent to the moon, the 'old star' thing is just the easy way out. Thing is, they don't have WCW buying all the top names now so they can do that and they would have done it in 96 if WCW wasn't so powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 25, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 It just seems like a ridiculous over-reaction. Sure, they pushed super hard going into Money In The Bank, but how can a buyrate better than last year really be a failure? They tried a pretty much untested guy in the main slot and he did better than last year. It's not like Punk is this huge drag-factor, and that's probably what is annoying me a bit about people's reactions to all this. Money in the Bank is traditionally a C-show anyway. For MITB 2010, Sheamus vs Cena for the millionth time never really had a build. The build for that was the Nexus would probably run in. All eyes were on SummerSlam. This year it was geared towards MITB, with a massive storyline where they involved Vince and Cena getting verbal lashings from the new star they were pushing. The reason, I've been reading for why it was a big disappointment comes from the fact Punk came up with the idea to incorporate his contract issues into the storyline, Vince ran with it, everyone Vince usually trusts (the Arn Andersons, the Michael Hayes, the Jerry Lawlers, the Brian Gewertz etc) said it was never going to work. So when it didnt deliever what they had wanted it to and predicted it to, Vince pulled the plug and now you have storylines where Triple H, Kevin Nash, John Cena and, soon, The Rock are the main focus. And the big picture is Vince is coming back in the next couple of weeks to take charge again. Punk's in the storyline, but he's no longer the focus of it. If this was 1998, he's a DDP. He wouldnt be a Goldberg. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying thats the way they run the business in 2011. Â Last week, Vince was apparently going mental because one of the finishes at the PPV wasnt what he ordered and on Raw Alberto was told to say Vince's name which wasnt supposed to happen. One of the writers told Del Rio to drop Vince's name because he's coming back soon, and Vince didnt OK it. He's stressed to fuck at the minute by all accounts. So I wouldnt be surprised if a million things change again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicko Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Back on topic, I still think that a Nexus reunion would work, and I had hoped that's where they were going when Slater and Gabriel followed Barrett to Smackdown. Â They've all been pretty much disrespected since the break up, even Barrett these days. I know Tarver isn't likely to be brought back, but politics aside, lets assume he is. Have them all reunite under Barrett, complaining that they've been forgotten of late, and realised that they needed power in numbers to be noticed. I wouldn't include Bryan myself, but if you wanted the original 8, he could be the first MITB briefcase loser, inspiring him to rehook with Barrett. Â Then have them run rough shod as they did last year, over everyone else. It would even fit in with the current 'future endeavoured' storyline. Â I'm obviously in the minority, but I'd enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Punk winning the belt then "leaving' was one of the most original things WWE have done in over a decade. They ballsed it all up by bringing him back in a week, and a month later, everything was pretty much back to normal (Cena either had the belt or was fighting for it in the main events and Punk was back out of the main events). No he wasn't. Punk main-evented the last pay-per-view ahead of Cena's title match. And he's fighting for the title at the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 25, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 I'm not suprised that Summerslam had a low buy rate. Only about 4 matches were announced in advance for the show and 3 of those were rematches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Punk winning the belt then "leaving' was one of the most original things WWE have done in over a decade. They ballsed it all up by bringing him back in a week, and a month later, everything was pretty much back to normal (Cena either had the belt or was fighting for it in the main events and Punk was back out of the main events). No he wasn't. Punk main-evented the last pay-per-view ahead of Cena's title match. And he's fighting for the title at the next one. Sorry, i meant to say Punk was back out of the title picture, not the main event (which he seemed to be at the time when he was building an upper-card feud with Nash, before that got changed to the Triple H match). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I cant believe Im reading another discussion about the fall in WWE ratings and buy-rates, we are talking about a company who regurlarly obliterate all their competition on a weekly basis. TNA have huge star power are still not even close to challenging them, they cant even do it with Hulk Hogan. WWE are not in that a bad shape, granted they are not turning over the profits they were, but they are still turning over millions in profit every year.... how many companies would love to be that posistion? Without doubt one of the senseless nay-sayers will dive all over this whinging to no end about WWE are shit, that they are doing shit business and that everything they are doing is wrong but seriously, who here has the right to tell Vince McMahon (the millionaire wrestling promoter) he is not running his company right? The whole world has fallen into economic downturn since 2006, is there anyone on this forum cynical and naive enough to believe that this would not effect the amount of people getting a WWE PPV every month? Â Now I believe the thread is about The Nexus and whether they could make an effective return..... well the answer is actually yes in my opinion. A big portion of the negative responses so far have been regarding to how the various members are percieved by the audience. My answer to that is that it doesnt matter how they are viewed individually because The Nexus, Wade Barrett aside, were never presented as threats individually given that their strength was always in numbers. I personally would be happy to see a return of the line-up of Barrett, Otunga (who I really enjoyed as a Nexus member), Heath Slater (who Ive gone on the record of saying how awesome he is a few times), Justin Gabriel (who managed the incredible feat of getting heel heat from a 450 Splash), and Skip Sheffield (who is just a bulldozing hoss with awesome intensity). There should be no issue with these five men being presented as a threat to anyone if you feed them someone straight away in the same manner Cena was fed to them from the start. The Nexus was a very well worked angle from the start which lost momentum at Summerslam, but wrestling angles always lose momentum eventually and unfortunately in the current PPV heavy calender WWE regurlarly have to present pay-offs to angles a lot sooner than in the past in order to keep people interested. The Nexus would be simple to breathe life into if they are simply presented as a threat in numbers in the same way they originally were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 25, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 25, 2011 I cant believe Im reading another discussion about the fall in WWE ratings and buy-rates, we are talking about a company who regurlarly obliterate all their competition on a weekly basis. People are only speaking of things that WWE have addressed as a concern in there shareholders meetings. Hense the reason they have both rosters on the same show and are bringing back the likes of Nash, Vince and Foley. Nobody is saying its going out of business. People are discussing the decline in several areas of business and how they relate to current storylines. Â Also, whats TNA got to do with anything? How does beating TNA mean that business is booming? Monday Night Football is obliterating WWE everyweek. Thats the thing the WWE are worried about. Not TNA. WWE's comeptition is the thing stopping them from improving their declining buyrates. TNA doesnt effect that, so bringing up TNA is irrelevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I cant believe Im reading another discussion about the fall in WWE ratings and buy-rates, we are talking about a company who regurlarly obliterate all their competition on a weekly basis. People are only speaking of things that WWE have addressed as a concern in there shareholders meetings. Nobody is saying its going out of business. People are discussing the decline in several areas of business and how they relate to current storylines. Â Also, whats TNA got to do with anything? How does beating TNA mean that business is booming? Monday Night Football is obliterating WWE everyweek. Thats the thing the WWE are worried about. Not TNA. how can you ask what TNA has to do with anything when they are nearest competition providing the same form of entertainment to the same audience, Ill grant that WWE are obviously competeing with the NFL because the programming is on on the same night but your point about WWE not even being worried about TNA proves mine about WWE not having any real wrestling based competition. WWE's ratings always go through lull periods before WWE becomes cool again and the casual fans come back to it, it happened before with WCW and its happening now with UFC..... NFL has always been there. People read far too much into the current figures, I have no doubt in my mind they will rise again. Â Edit* Any chance we can discuss The Nexus in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 26, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 26, 2011 how can you ask what TNA has to do with anything when they are nearest competition providing the same form of entertainment to the same audience, Ill grant that WWE are obviously competeing with the NFL because the programming is on on the same night but your point about WWE not even being worried about TNA proves mine about WWE not having any real wrestling based competition. WWE's ratings always go through lull periods before WWE becomes cool again and the casual fans come back to it, it happened before with WCW and its happening now with UFC..... NFL has always been there. People read far too much into the current figures, I have no doubt in my mind they will rise again. Heres a question: has WWE put the Raw and Smackdown roster together because of TNA? Is house show business down because of TNA? Did they get their lowest rating the other week since 1997 because of TNA? Are they bringing back old stars and changing the direction of the business because of TNA? No to all of those, so TNA has nothing to do with this. They are a public company and have to answer to shareholders. If business is down, the shareholders (a lot of whom dont know there is another wrestling company) could care less if WWE is beating another wrestling promotion in the ratings. So the WCW comparison means nothing in 2011. WWE doesnt consider TNA competition anyway, so why should we? Vince McMahon has publically said they are in two different businesses. Vince competes in the arena and television market and TNA is about growth. Â I have no doubt in my mind they will rise again. And that is what people in this thread have been discussing. Â Edit* Any chance we can discuss The Nexus in this thread? Who's stopping you. All of this was directed to the Nexus angle and the previous SummerSlam in the first place if you bothered reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted September 26, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted September 26, 2011 I cant believe Im reading another discussion about the fall in WWE ratings and buy-rates, we are talking about a company who regurlarly obliterate all their competition on a weekly basis. People are only speaking of things that WWE have addressed as a concern in there shareholders meetings. Nobody is saying its going out of business. People are discussing the decline in several areas of business and how they relate to current storylines. Â Also, whats TNA got to do with anything? How does beating TNA mean that business is booming? Monday Night Football is obliterating WWE everyweek. Thats the thing the WWE are worried about. Not TNA. how can you ask what TNA has to do with anything when they are nearest competition providing the same form of entertainment to the same audience, Ill grant that WWE are obviously competeing with the NFL because the programming is on on the same night but your point about WWE not even being worried about TNA proves mine about WWE not having any real wrestling based competition. WWE's ratings always go through lull periods before WWE becomes cool again and the casual fans come back to it, it happened before with WCW and its happening now with UFC..... NFL has always been there. People read far too much into the current figures, I have no doubt in my mind they will rise again. Â Edit* Any chance we can discuss The Nexus in this thread? Â Both promotions back in the day always took a hit in September because of the new football season anyway so the ratings do indeed tip up and down here and there. Â WWE don't care about TNA at the moment because they still tape most of the TV and PPV's on a fucking sound stage. It's like Tesco's worrying about a corner shop in Clapham, TNA for the last 5 years have barely been able to market a fart, nevermind an identity for the company. Like WWE should give a shit, WWE is a global company, TNA have been a couple of countries but there still just a small wrestling company who will take years and years of more work to get anywhere. Â EDIT: Ian got in first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 MITB was supposed to be 60% up on last years (100,000 buys) but since it's a newish event, it's hardly a cause for celebration. Like Ian said, Summerslam is expected to be low, worse than last year with 5 rookies and Bret Hart in the main event. It's there own fault, they use ppv's now to hype up Monday's Raw. Its meant to be the other way around. Â Look at the fall in Summerslam buyrates from 2006 till now it's fucking shocking! Â Summerslam 2010 - 350,000 Summerslam 2009 - 369,000 Summerslam 2008 - 477,000 Summerslam 2007 - 535,000 Summerslam 2006 - 541,000 Â Every one of them should be fired!!! Â Ah yes but when did they increase the price of the PPVs? After all for a company income is more important than the number of buyrates financially speaking. I'd be more interested in the buy rates of each summerslam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Ian, you do not know more about the WWE and pro wrestling than Vince McMahon, calm down and enjoy the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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