The Nexus

[WWFChilli]

Punk has arguably delivered some of the best promos in the companies history, but the booking since Money In The Bank has been wank because nobody seems to have any idea where Punk's storyline is heading. Punk's stock has clearly risen a lot over the last few months but as usual they're building up one guy while leaving the majority to rot, nobody wants to see a Dolph Ziggler/Jack Swagger feud because nobody's done anything to make the audience care about them.

 

I love Punk but fucking hell

[The Total Package]

Well Ian already said what I was thinking, when something goes wrong, its all creatives fault, when its right, its all CM Punk, I'm sure i remember seeing some of CM Punks segments and matches that were the low points in the ratings for RAW.

 

Punk has also drawn 3.0, against football.

 

Was it against football? they were getting shit ratings before football even started, besides that given the push CM Punk has gotten, is 3.0 good enough? I don't think it is for the effort put in by WWE that their ratings etc don't even budge from when Cena does the usual formula.

 

IMO not since Edge in 2006/7 has a single wrestler got such a great push, did WWE kill it too early? that's debatable, but they didn't see the increase in ratings, which is what they expected, I don't know how anyone can moan about CM Punk, what else can WWE do for him? he beat Cena, got to talk shit about the McMahon's, is in a main program with the king Himself TripleH, got new music and a cool new t-shirt, what else can you do? I cant blame WWE at all if they pull the plug on him.

 

Hyperbole. Anyone who believed that Punk making a couple of insider comments on Raw would send business "through the roof" is a fucking imbecile.

 

But that wasn't the case was it? not back at that time, it wasn't just insider remarks, back then the hook was he was fed up with WWE and he was going to take the title away from the company and maybe even show up in another fed with it, you only have to go back and look at the posts on probably any wrestling forum and see how hyped everyone was, especially for MITB and after.

 

Problem is once that was killed off, after he returned after a week off, he just carried on with the insider rubbish (without that hook), most of which have FA to do with what is actually happening, could you really blame a casual viewer from switching channels at that point, until Cena or Orton shows up? not really imo.

[Magnum]

To go back to the original topic, I think the perception of both the concept and the people involved are far too damaged to welcome the prospect of a reunion. Nexus was a great, well-executed concept for about a month, but after they started to run out of smoke & mirrors tricks to hide the lack of experience/talent/charisma of those involved, they became little more than more cannon fodder for Cena - the 2009 version of the Spirit Squad if you like.

 

It would be a different story if the concept had been wildly successful (like the nWo) or the members had gone on to be more successful since the stable disbanded (like Evolution). But Nexus, in the wider scheme of things, will be remembered largely as a few months worth of shit TV built on the back of one good angle, whose members have gone on to be jobbers and midcard filler since. The only way it would work would be as a one-off, throwaway thing to put a couple of feuding babyfaces over for something like a Saturday Night's Main Event or a 3-hour RAW special.

[diamond_dust]

As much as I liked Nexus and thought it ended too soon theres no way it could be rebuilt.

 

Tarver getting released and bad mouthing the company and goldenboy Cena rules him out of a return for a while.

 

Sheffield will probably have to prove he isn't so injury prone before having any important role again.

 

Slater and Otunga have been jobbed out and made to look so weak post Nexus that it'll be hard to take them seriously for a while

 

Gabriel has been missing off TV so often who cares

 

Danielsons anti nexus stance throughout and current MITB role would be a huge step back (& since they have nothing meaningful for him to do anyway that tells you how bad the writing is)

 

Young "doesn't have a contract" despite spending the best part of a year on Superstars and it looks like at some point during the never ending NXT Redemption WWE got bored of him anyway (as with the rest of them and can't seem to decide who to put on the next season out of the finalists)

 

As for Barrett, the Corre just made him look like a one trick pony so it bombed. Same old crap minus the controversy used to get Nexus over. Putting him in a 3rd version would be even worse.

 

There would be no benifit to anyone reforming the original Nexus.

[Loligan]

Well Ian already said what I was thinking, when something goes wrong, its all creatives fault, when its right, its all CM Punk, I'm sure i remember seeing some of CM Punks segments and matches that were the low points in the ratings for RAW.

 

Punk has also drawn 3.0, against football.

 

Was it against football? they were getting shit ratings before football even started, besides that given the push CM Punk has gotten, is 3.0 good enough? I don't think it is for the effort put in by WWE that their ratings etc don't even budge from when Cena does the usual formula.

 

IMO not since Edge in 2006/7 has a single wrestler got such a great push, did WWE kill it too early? that's debatable, but they didn't see the increase in ratings, which is what they expected, I don't know how anyone can moan about CM Punk, what else can WWE do for him? he beat Cena, got to talk shit about the McMahon's, is in a main program with the king Himself TripleH, got new music and a cool new t-shirt, what else can you do? I cant blame WWE at all if they pull the plug on him.

 

Hyperbole. Anyone who believed that Punk making a couple of insider comments on Raw would send business "through the roof" is a fucking imbecile.

 

But that wasn't the case was it? not back at that time, it wasn't just insider remarks, back then the hook was he was fed up with WWE and he was going to take the title away from the company and maybe even show up in another fed with it, you only have to go back and look at the posts on probably any wrestling forum and see how hyped everyone was, especially for MITB and after.

 

Problem is once that was killed off, after he returned after a week off, he just carried on with the insider rubbish (without that hook), most of which have FA to do with what is actually happening, could you really blame a casual viewer from switching channels at that point, until Cena or Orton shows up? not really imo.

 

You seem to be using your argument in reverse, it sounds like you are blaming CM Punk personally for coming back a week later, as if he had any choice in the matter. What else could WWE do for him? Well how about letting the buzz that was created develop before bringing him back after a week off? Blending the viral stuff they were doing very well during that week into the tv show, allowing the Cena V Del Rio feud more time directly after MITB while having the lingering threat of Punk. In fact having a clue at all as to making compelling weekly tv is what WWE could have done. I personally could have lived without the Nash/HHH v Punk feud.

[Magnum]

Was it against football? they were getting shit ratings before football even started, besides that given the push CM Punk has gotten, is 3.0 good enough? I don't think it is for the effort put in by WWE that their ratings etc don't even budge from when Cena does the usual formula.

 

IMO not since Edge in 2006/7 has a single wrestler got such a great push, did WWE kill it too early? that's debatable, but they didn't see the increase in ratings, which is what they expected, I don't know how anyone can moan about CM Punk, what else can WWE do for him? he beat Cena, got to talk shit about the McMahon's, is in a main program with the king Himself TripleH, got new music and a cool new t-shirt, what else can you do? I cant blame WWE at all if they pull the plug on him.

 

See, the problem with hooking a new audience and convincing them to stay with the product is this mindset exactly. Everything that looked like it would lead to a major change in direction over the last few years - from the Orton push in early 2009 to Nexus last year - has really just been false promise, a few months of hot-shotted storylines to build new cannon fodder for the established stars. If you condition your floating voters to expect that you're only building Orton/Barrett/Punk up so they can tap out to Cena 6 weeks down the road and the status quo can be resumed, of course they're going to approach with caution. If you then pull the plug because of that, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure WCW ratings took several months to really explode after the start of the nWo storyline. Similarly, Austin had been on fire for more than a year before RAW finally overtook Nitro in the ratings. Tangible, sizable increases in the ratings happen over a matter of months on the back of consistently good, innovative programming, not on the back of a couple of weeks' worth of big angles.

[Dirty Eddie]

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure WCW ratings took several months to really explode after the start of the nWo storyline. Similarly, Austin had been on fire for more than a year before RAW finally overtook Nitro in the ratings. Tangible, sizable increases in the ratings happen over a matter of months on the back of consistently good, innovative programming, not on the back of a couple of weeks' worth of big angles.

 

Exactly. Especially when they fail to follow up the few weeks of hot angles, and instead go in a weird, hard to fathom direction that saps the "new face" of his popularity by putting him against an established, super-popular legend figure (talking about Trips, not Nash, before any hilarity ensues).

 

Punk winning the belt then "leaving' was one of the most original things WWE have done in over a decade. They ballsed it all up by bringing him back in a week, and a month later, everything was pretty much back to normal (Cena either had the belt or was fighting for it in the main events and Punk was back out of the main events).

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Punk has arguably delivered some of the best promos in the companies history

No chance. Nowhere near. Didnt you just mention hyperbole? What you basing this off? He did some good promos, but is anyone on here (or infact anywhere else) going to tell me he was anywhere close or in the same world of Triple H of 2000-01, Foley of 97-2000, Shawn Michaels of 97, Jericho 2007, Bret Hart of 97, The Rock of 99-2000, Austin of 97-99, Hogan of 85-89, Batista of 2010. Undertaker and Shawn Michaels couple of weeks leading to WrestleMania 26 and Triple H and the Undertakers buildup was better than that. Its just that the internet caught fire because one of their favs was 'sticking it to the man'.

 

And the booking is a reaction to the original storyline. It got over with the internet, but the initial CM Punk storyline was never going to last. It wasnt possible. You cant book a promotion towards a minority audience. The angle was critically acclaimed leading to Money in the Bank. And the MITB PPV bombed and so did the following up PPV. If this would have delievered the numbers they were after, CM Punk would still be the lead man now.

[The Total Package]

You seem to be using your argument in reverse, it sounds like you are blaming CM Punk personally for coming back a week later, as if he had any choice in the matter. What else could WWE do for him? Well how about letting the buzz that was created develop before bringing him back after a week off? Blending the viral stuff they were doing very well during that week into the tv show, allowing the Cena V Del Rio feud more time directly after MITB while having the lingering threat of Punk. In fact having a clue at all as to making compelling weekly tv is what WWE could have done. I personally could have lived without the Nash/HHH v Punk feud.

 

I cant argue with any of that, all good points, however Punk still got massive amounts of room to work within, I'm not blaming Punk 100percent, I do feel however he should take some of the blame, it seems like Vito wants to let him off the hook totally and blame WWE creative.

 

See, the problem with hooking a new audience and convincing them to stay with the product is this mindset exactly. Everything that looked like it would lead to a major change in direction over the last few years - from the Orton push in early 2009 to Nexus last year - has really just been false promise, a few months of hot-shotted storylines to build new cannon fodder for the established stars. If you condition your floating voters to expect that you're only building Orton/Barrett/Punk up so they can tap out to Cena 6 weeks down the road and the status quo can be resumed, of course they're going to approach with caution. If you then pull the plug because of that, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure WCW ratings took several months to really explode after the start of the nWo storyline. Similarly, Austin had been on fire for more than a year before RAW finally overtook Nitro in the ratings. Tangible, sizable increases in the ratings happen over a matter of months on the back of consistently good, innovative programming, not on the back of a couple of weeks' worth of big angles.

 

Well I agree a slow burn is always better, but unfortunately Vince no longer see's it that way, maybe theirs more pressure on him these days to do better numbers, or he has other people on his case about it? I don't know, its a difficult situation, could RAW go a whole year getting 2.5-2.9 while they wait in hope that things might jump after? sounds risky to me, and I doubt ad revenue people would be impressed with such news.

 

It is a problem they have caused themselves by only having Cena/Orton, they've lost some big names in the last 3 years, that perhaps they thought would be still there.

[TotalDebacle]

I don't see why anyone would want to re-do the Nexus angle. It was done fantastically at first, fizzled out, and that's that. There's no point retreading old ground, as they'll just fuck it up again. Same with the NWO.

[ColinBollocks]

People giving up on Punk already need to get a grip. You need more than a couple of months to build a star. Austin didn't turn big ratings until ages into his long push (obviously Punk will never be that level) and WWE spent years building up The Rock. You can't just take a guy that was positioned as a level below the proper stars then hope he'll do you a number after a few weeks of making him look good (especially a babyface), fair enough if the business was hot but it isn't even close to being hot. Building a solid main eventer takes months and months of solid build. It's why WWE have yet to elevate anybody in ages because they give up after two months. I think that's partly why the Punk thing failed to grab the casuals in numbers, he was the bloke who couldn't hang with the main eventers for years before he got his matches with Cena. Then he suddenly was the man Cena feared, despite Cena making easy work of him on numerous occasions. It's also the reason their entire midcard is ruined, they've been jobbed out so much.

 

It's a shame things got a bit shit after Summer Slam though. Punk deserves criticism there, his material is all over the place.

 

EDIT: I should have read Magnum's post. Oh well.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure WCW ratings took several months to really explode after the start of the nWo storyline. Similarly, Austin had been on fire for more than a year before RAW finally overtook Nitro in the ratings. Tangible, sizable increases in the ratings happen over a matter of months on the back of consistently good, innovative programming, not on the back of a couple of weeks' worth of big angles.

You cant compare the nWo and Stone Cold's rise to the current mess they have. In 2011, WWE has to justify to stockholders why they are putting people on TV that arent delivering the goods. The reason CM Punk isnt the flavour of the month anymore is because of several reasons. Not because ratings are down on his watch. The Arn Anderson and Michael Hayes dont like him, Lawler doesnt like him, the commentators of that baseball game they sent him to took the piss out of him and WWE ("he's the world champion yuk-yuk-yuk"), the stockholders want to know why they are continuing to run with him if the two buyrates he had the most mic time promoting died miserably. Its not about ratings, its about the level of interest compared to other wrestlers with less time to get over. If you have about 20 minutes of Raw each week to say whatever you want to Vince McMahon and Triple H and you only draw 20,000 more buys than a R-Truth headlined C-show, then Vince is going to get a bollocking from those lads with glasses in the shareholders meeting. And the reason the people I mentioned dont like him, is because they predicted that this would happen. There backs are against the wall at the minute. They had to try something, and it hasnt worked or it isnt working. Business has hit the shits since June. Merchandise is even down, and thats never down. Luckily, Survivor Series looks to be a spike they need.

 

But for me, CM Punk was never going to be the next big thing. Guys like Punk never are. Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart are two of the best wrestlers ever, but they were never on the level people were predicting Punk was going to be on. Punk's a great performer on a shit wrestling show, like Michaels was in 1996 (although not as good as Michaels, obviously). But it takes more than getting a 20 page thread on a internet forum to increase interest in a show that most think has declined in recent years.

 

Interest is there. It showed last year, when the Rock came back. If you give the audience what they want, they'll come back.

[Dirty Eddie]

Did the Punk/Cena headlined PPVs do worse numbers than the events last year then? Or were they just down from this years others PPV shows?

[ColinBollocks]

I can't wait until The Rock comes back. Him appearing live for a show gives everybody/everything a shot in the arm. I know people hate on him because they feel is material is dated, but it works better than a shoot. Lets hope WWE can keep the momentum he brings, they fucked up last time.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Did the Punk/Cena headlined PPVs do worse numbers than the events last year then? Or were they just down from this years others PPV shows?

SummerSlam 2010 drew 350,000, which was a disappointment and lead to the Nexus getting their unstoppable gimmick taken off then with Cena verbally burying the lot the night after (remember that?!). SummerSlam 2011 hasnt came out yet, but early estimates say that (and this is a quote) "Summerslam is going to shit the bed financially". Money in the Bank was better than last year, but they drew up a plan which said "push his reality based storyline and we'll get THIS amount of buys for sure". They threw the kitchen sick at it leading up to MITB and they never got anywhere near what they were after. It was a huge kick in the balls, because everyone was telling them this would happen. Whatever your opinion of the storyline is, its obvious somewhere somebody has said "fuck this", because there seemed to be a big 180 during after SummerSlam where they pulled back a bit. Its the reason why Vince is back in a few weeks. Its the reason Foley's coming back. Its the reason Nash is back. Its the initial reason why The Rock is back so early. 2001 shows, if buyrates and ratings are on their arse, Vince brings the old boys back.