Police cause another death

[Kiffy]

Richie, do you live in Baltimore or something? You make your hometown sound like an episode of The Homicide.

 

Even worse, he lives in....................

The north.

It's grim and stuff.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

TASER stands for Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle

 

Tom Swift was a early 20th century fictional science fiction character and in one of his stories invented an electric rifle, the inventor of TASER, who I forget now, saw this character as one of his childhhod heroes and named his invention after him.

 

Being an instructor on TASER, I do primarily teach it's use, HOWEVER there is a lot we teach on the follow through procedures that should be put into place after a cartridge has been fired. There's all sorts we cover, including the medical side of things, and the overall effects a TASER may have on someone.

 

As an instructor it is our job to not only know the firearm, but also as much background knowledge as possible, I personally on my department am regarded as somewhat the expert on Attenuating Energy Projectiles and their use with England in Wales since their introduction.

 

The medical side of things with TASER is paramount to the training, in case those we train have to deal with such a case as a Pacemaker being affected (slim chance mind) or say the subject has been sprayed with PAVA and then engaged with a TASER cartridge, dealing with someone not only incapacitated through neuromuscular means, but also alight with an invisible flame because of the TASER charge, needs to be covered in case it were to happen out on the ground.

 

I will admit I am not au fait with the X12, however the X26 I would.

 

(Awaits Chest Rockwell to announce that "just because you've been educated on the TASER and it's effects on the human body, dosen't mean you know anything nor that your any kind of expert.")

[Smeg_&_The_Heads]

I think it's silly some people seem to think all Police are bad just because of a few news reports that would be like thinking all Doctors and Nurses are killers just because over the years we have had a few news reports of a Doctor or Nurse killing their patients or a Firefighter causing arson's .

 

Ok it maybe more common to get a bad member of the Police Force but it's still nowhere near the majority I would say it's under 3% of the entire force.

[Kiffy]

I would say it's under 3% of the entire force.

 

Now you're absoloutely sure, adjusting for errors, that the figure never goes as high as 3.27%?

[Devon Malcolm]

(Awaits Chest Rockwell to announce that "just because you've been educated on the TASER and it's effects on the human body, dosen't mean you know anything nor that your any kind of expert.")

 

Chest saw that 'Don't Taze Me, Bro!' meme a few years ago, don't say he doesn't know his shit!

 

As for Richie, I really think that, whether he wants people to believe him or not, the problem he has when spinning stories like these is that, depending what he's talking about, Barrow Island is either the crime capital of the north-west that makes Moss Side and Toxteth look like Westward Ho! and Windsor, a town so completely dead of activity that even the tumbleweeds get bored, or being run by a violent police state. I should visit one day!

[Chest Rockwell]

(Awaits Chest Rockwell to announce that "just because you've been educated on the TASER and it's effects on the human body, dosen't mean you know anything nor that your any kind of expert.")

 

Nah, I don't really have time to get into this conversation right now.. I will announce that you're a dickhead though, and that you can stop putting words in my mouth.

 

A lot of the research done into the safety of tasers has not been conducted independently and is biased by links to the taser manufacturers. Obviously police as the main users have a vested interest in supporting research that defends their use. It's all pretty new in that widespread use has really only taken off in the past few years and we're still finding out how safe they really are.

 

I'm sure Teedy is a knowledgeable and intelligent guy but the information he gets from his training needs to be tempered with the findings of some of the independent research.

[Richie Freebird]

Lol unbunch those panties shiela, my point being that while I have no complaints about how I've been treated by the police, I may well have had a different experience if I was black, as they will get stopped alot more often, searched alot more often, and often treated with quite alot less respect.

 

It was quite hard to interpret what you meant there. To me it read like

[Kiffy]

x

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

Nah, I don't really have time to get into this conversation right now.. I will announce that you're a dickhead though, and that you can stop putting words in my mouth.

 

A lot of the research done into the safety of tasers has not been conducted independently and is biased by links to the taser manufacturers. Obviously police as the main users have a vested interest in supporting research that defends their use. It's all pretty new in that widespread use has really only taken off in the past few years and we're still finding out how safe they really are.

 

I'm sure Teedy is a knowledgeable and intelligent guy but the information he gets from his training needs to be tempered with the findings of some of the independent research.

 

I'm not a dick head though am I?

 

Teddy came onto this thread as the only person with any legitimate knowledge and experience of a TASER gun, and you dismissed his opinion as being biased and flawed, when in actual fact, he is the only person really qualified in this thread to make a informed opinion on the matter.

 

Your statement was "training people in their use doesn't make you an expert though does it?" Well actually IT DOES. True their are different levels of expertise, but Teedy IS a expert on the matter, and unless you or someone else on this forum has more legitimate knowledge or hands on experience, then Teedy's opinion out weighs yours by some considerable margin. Don't forget, I did ask what your experience in TASER guns were, but you declined to answer (at this point in time) so I'm going to presume that your experience is limited to hearsay and third party information.

 

As for putting words into your mouth, you said:

"Training people in their use doesn't make you an expert though does it?"

 

I mockingly said:

 

"Just because you've been educated on the TASER and it's effects on the human body, dosen't mean you know anything nor that your any kind of expert?"

Is pretty much exactly the same. You already stated he wasn't a expert (and that therefore he has no knowledge int he area) and you implied that his knowledge was biased. How am I putting words into your mouth exactly?

 

Don't get me wrong, you did bring up a decent point. TASERs are a contentious issue, and there has been controversy around them, but when you dismiss the opinion of the only person with REAL experience and knowledge on the matter, then really your only showing yourself to be close minded.

 

Could his knowledge be skewed because of his position as a TASER trainer? Yeah sure, but only as skewed as anyone on either side of the debate and with that level of knowledge.

[Richie Freebird]

After this coming up in conversation at work, the general belief now is that he was hit 4 / 5 times with the weapon as reported in the local news, which got me thinking. Can anyone (meat head or not) no sell a taser shot? I cant imagine he simply

[Chest Rockwell]

I'm not a dick head though am I?

 

(imo)

 

Teddy came onto this thread as the only person with any legitimate knowledge and experience of a TASER gun, and you dismissed his opinion as being biased and flawed, when in actual fact, he is the only person really qualified in this thread to make a informed opinion on the matter.

 

- I didn't dismiss his opinion. At that time he hadn't really said much (and still hasn't said much more than you could probably get from a wikipedia search). I said that being a trainer doesn't necessarily make you an expert.

- He is, again, not necessarily the only person qualified to have an informed opinion on them.

 

Your statement was "training people in their use doesn't make you an expert though does it?" Well actually IT DOES. True their are different levels of expertise, but Teedy IS a expert on the matter, and unless you or someone else on this forum has more legitimate knowledge or hands on experience, then Teedy's opinion out weighs yours by some considerable margin. Don't forget, I did ask what your experience in TASER guns were, but you declined to answer (at this point in time) so I'm going to presume that your experience is limited to hearsay and third party information.

 

My point is about equating knowledge of safety of the effects of the taser with knowledge of safety of use. They are different things.

 

I've not fired a taser. I have read enough about them to know that the safety issue is not cut and dried, which is what I said. What other qualifications and experience would you like me to have for this to be a valid point?

 

As for putting words into your mouth, you said:

"Training people in their use doesn't make you an expert though does it?"

 

I mockingly said:

 

"Just because you've been educated on the TASER and it's effects on the human body, dosen't mean you know anything nor that your any kind of expert?"

Is pretty much exactly the same. You already stated he wasn't a expert (and that therefore he has no knowledge int he area) and you implied that his knowledge was biased. How am I putting words into your mouth exactly?

 

"Not an Expert = No Knowledge"? This is why I don't want you putting words in my mouth; because you're a moron.

 

 

...blah blah blah...the rest of what you said was irrelevant repetition.

[Surf Digby]

Can anyone (meat head or not) no sell a taser shot? I cant imagine he simply

[Richie Freebird]

You can't cuff someone whilst they're being shocked, otherwise you end up shocking the policeman too (remember the Van Der Graf shenanigans in science lessons?), and once you stop shocking them - if they're capable of recovering quickly enough - they'll start resisting again.

 

Jackass did a good demonstration of shockers and Tasers on one of the early episodes.

 

It was mainly the recovery time I was wondering about like. I thought they were meant to temporarily immobilize the victim rather than just cause pain and injury. If this is the case, is one shot enough to capitalize on the immobility of the victim by cuffing.

 

I get occasionally get small shocks at work.

[WildSybianRider]

At that time he hadn't really said much (and still hasn't said much more than you could probably get from a wikipedia search). I said that being a trainer doesn't necessarily make you an expert.

 

Exactly. Indeed, just flicking at wikipedia now, the line, "Between June 2001 and June 2007, there were at least 245 cases of deaths of subjects soon after having been shocked using Tasers" really stands out. Obv that's by no means conclusive evidence against their use but hilarious how some police explaining how they train people on tasers apparently convinces everyone that they must be alright, then.

[Surf Digby]

It was mainly the recovery time I was wondering about like. I thought they were meant to temporarily immobilize the victim rather than just cause pain and injury. If this is the case, is one shot enough to capitalize on the immobility of the victim by cuffing.

 

I get occasionally get small shocks at work.

I was "medium level" electrocuted when I was younger (don't touch live wires, kids). While it was happening, I couldn't do a thing as I was in complete spasm. Immediately afterwards, I was able to get up and facepalm myself for being such a daft twat. I was in a bit of pain, because every muscle had basically strained itself pulling against it's opposite muscle, but I could move about.

Were I a big fucker, with my pain threshold effected by something like PCP (I've no idea what Meow Meow actually does), then I could probably still cause problems to someone trying to get cuffs on me.