Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 Cena laughed and pandered to the camera when he left the ring on Monday. He is too damn goofy to be a heel now i'm affraid. Well if your not trying to be a heel its hard to come across as a heel to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 If they are going to turn Cena heel "planeting seeds" isnt what they should ever do. Bret Hart was a planned heel turn from the minute he stormed out in 1996 after losing the Iron Man match. That was the slow building heel turn. Cena's FUing the Rock isnt out of character for him, because Rock insulted his fanbase, insulted what he stood for and told him he didnt like him. Â I'm not sure the Bret Hart turn was planned that far back - at least not on his part, going by his book. The storming out was to create an issue for a potential rematch with Michaels, but as far as I know there was no heel turn on the cards at that point. I would've put the start of the turn in real terms around January '97, specifically when he started bitching about the Royal Rumble loss. Â In terms of how the Cena turn should go, I think a slow burn turn (even if that means over the course of a year) and the planting of seeds is exactly what it needs, because I'm not sure a 'grand gesture' turn would work with Cena - after all, he just did a hit and run on the most popular man in the company (regardless of whether he's full-time or not), and that didn't constitute a turn. The problem is that the kidddies will back him up against anyone atm, and the rest will boo him to fuck. After all, you make a pretty good justification for his actions below: Â Cena came across as someone who doesnt give a fuck what Mr. Cool thought and stood in his face and told him if he didnt like him or what he represented he could try his luck. Cena looked more of a babyface than The Rock has. Â and yet the vast, vast majority of fans booed him out of the building. The same reaction will happen at Wrestlemania if he puts one over on the Rock again, and yet it won't fully turn him. I think you'd need to have him subtly alienate more and more fans over a period of time for any proper heel turn to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 I'm not sure the Bret Hart turn was planned that far back - at least not on his part, going by his book. The storming out was to create an issue for a potential rematch with Michaels, but as far as I know there was no heel turn on the cards at that point. I would've put the start of the turn in real terms around January '97, specifically when he started bitching about the Royal Rumble loss. You should go back and read it then. Throughout Bret Hart's whole time off, it was known he wasnt coming back to be number two babyface. He was going to turn heel in 1995, but expressed his desire to leave for the majority of 1996. WWF wasnt different back then. His heel turn was planeed for up to 12 months. The fact his promo style completely changed upon his return showed that. Michaels had cost him the WWF title at the December PPV and he'd done a sit down interview in the April of 1996 saying he didnt like the way he'd been treated by Gorilla Monsoon and Shawn Michaels isnt the person who should be leading the WWF. Â In terms of how the Cena turn should go, I think a slow burn turn (even if that means over the course of a year) and the planting of seeds is exactly what it needs, because I'm not sure a 'grand gesture' turn would work with Cena - after all, he just did a hit and run on the most popular man in the company (regardless of whether he's full-time or not), and that didn't constitute a turn. Thats suicide. John Cena never turned heel when the fans turned on him in 2005. Never turned heel when they booed him out of the building every year at WrestleMania. Never turned heel when the Nexus wanted him to do heelish acts. His integrity has been strong in the face of everything for years. So for him to all of a sudden start doing heelish acts before he turns heel will be ridiculous. With a slow burn, people will get used to him being a heel, it will lead to confusion among his fanbase and when his heel turn is completed by turning on the fans the storyline will be pretty much dead anyway because they'd have waited to long for you to fully dislike him. If they did turn him heel, it would have to make people go "CENA'S A HEEL NOW!" like it did with Austin or Hogan and business will live or die of the intrigue. You cant slowly kill off someones drawing power as a face, then turn him heel. You have to roll the dice on him. Â and yet the vast, vast majority of fans booed him out of the building. The same reaction will happen at Wrestlemania if he puts one over on the Rock again, and yet it won't fully turn him. I think you'd need to have him subtly alienate more and more fans over a period of time for any proper heel turn to take. Exactly. Cena said "if you dont like what I stand for, fuck you". Boo him if you want, he isnt going to change the way he thinks. It make him the good guy and if people hate him or his fanbase, they can boo all they like. Going back to Bret Hart's heel turn, in Canada he was right. So he was in face. To Cena's fanbase he is the face and his fans love him. To the "CENA SUXXLOLZ" lot, he's a heel anyway because they dont like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 and yet the vast, vast majority of fans booed him out of the building. The same reaction will happen at Wrestlemania if he puts one over on the Rock again, and yet it won't fully turn him. I think you'd need to have him subtly alienate more and more fans over a period of time for any proper heel turn to take. Vast, vast majority? Horseshit. Watch it again and take the blinkers off this time - by the end of his promo he had the majority on his side, albeit not at Rock's expense. Cheering one guy doesn't mean they're automatically booing the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelEdge Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I totally missed Lawler's new entrance music as I tend to fast forward some of the less exciting entrances when I watch Raw and Smackdown. Anyone got a link to it? Interested to see what it's like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Cena Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I totally missed Lawler's new entrance music as I tend to fast forward some of the less exciting entrances when I watch Raw and Smackdown. Anyone got a link to it? Interested to see what it's like. Â Here. You want to be about 7:20 in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Miz Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well if your not trying to be a heel its hard to come across as a heel to be fair. Â Hence the reason I can't see him suddenly going from goofy face to heel in the matter of days or even weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RepoMan Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Being a goofy heel wouldn't be a bad thing. Refusing to change and just having the fans turn against him over time, and him doing the things he knows winds them up etc .. that can work. It wouldn't be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well if your not trying to be a heel its hard to come across as a heel to be fair. Â Hence the reason I can't see him suddenly going from goofy face to heel in the matter of days or even weeks. Why's that? Changing your moral code and mannerisms is exactly what a heel turn or a face turn involves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thats suicide. John Cena never turned heel when the fans turned on him in 2005. Never turned heel when they booed him out of the building every year at WrestleMania. Never turned heel when the Nexus wanted him to do heelish acts. His integrity has been strong in the face of everything for years. So for him to all of a sudden start doing heelish acts before he turns heel will be ridiculous. With a slow burn, people will get used to him being a heel, it will lead to confusion among his fanbase and when his heel turn is completed by turning on the fans the storyline will be pretty much dead anyway because they'd have waited to long for you to fully dislike him. If they did turn him heel, it would have to make people go "CENA'S A HEEL NOW!" like it did with Austin or Hogan and business will live or die of the intrigue. You cant slowly kill off someones drawing power as a face. You have to roll the dice on him. Â But what he did to The Rock on RAW was subtly heelish - being smug and snidey like that with the sneak attack and the taunt isn't a typical Cena tactic. Yes, you can justify it from the point of view of Cena and his fans, but again, you could do with Bret Hart's heelish acts, which is how he was able to stay an effective babyface in Europe and Canada. Â What sort of act would it take to fully turn him, then, do you reckon? Assuming it's going to come in the next year, because they really are running out of ways to make face Cena feuds seem interesting after he crushed Nexus and they had to insert The Rock into the mix to get anyone interested in Cena/Miz. There aren't really any heels over enough that Cena aligning with them would turn him, so would it need to involve cheating to end the streak (as has been mooted on here), or doing a Hogan-esque 'I DID IT FOR THE MONEY!' speech? I suppose the Cena turn would have closer parallels to Hogan's than Austin's, as Hogan was already getting booed by a large percentage of WCW fans anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 and yet the vast, vast majority of fans booed him out of the building. The same reaction will happen at Wrestlemania if he puts one over on the Rock again, and yet it won't fully turn him. I think you'd need to have him subtly alienate more and more fans over a period of time for any proper heel turn to take. Vast, vast majority? Horseshit. Watch it again and take the blinkers off this time - by the end of his promo he had the majority on his side, albeit not at Rock's expense. Cheering one guy doesn't mean they're automatically booing the other. Â He got booed to fuck after the FU to close the show, hence 'booed out of the building'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 30, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 What sort of act would it take to fully turn him, then, do you reckon? Easy. Look at the respect career-bastards Shawn Michaels and Triple H have shown the Undertaker. Next year, Undertaker going for 20-0, have Cena smack him with some gimmick and as the fans boo Cena, have Cena lock on the STFU. Imagine The Undertaker slowly going off into the land of nod with the fans booing and yelling at him as the streak is ending infront of their eyes would have people hating him. Michaels tried to out wrestle him. Results permitting on Sunday, Triple H will no doubt fail as well, but both will have a handshake at the end of it. Cena ending the legends streak would be a fine way to turn him heel. I think there's money in a Cena heel turn personally. Everyone though Batista wouldnt pull it off, but he was such a fresh character. I expect Cena to be the exact same. Â It will happen as well. And you might be spot on. It might happen in the next week. Listening to former WWE writers on the Observer this week, they've said Vince has been with in seconds of turning him heel and just taken off the board. Its on the agenda all the time and he's bound to pull the trigger one of these days. I cant see this being his heel turn though. I cant see them turning him heel with such a limited amount of faces to wrestle against. The Rock wont be back for ages after WrestleMania. Who could he work against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Total Package Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 The only way Cena can become a heel is by ending the streak, theirs nothing more important left in wrestling anymore, the titles mean shit and he has already hogged them as a face, so nothing new there. Â Him ending the streak and then beating the crap (use of weapons) out of Taker so he is stretched off, Rey a fan fav with the kids comes out to try and reason with him, but Cena destoryes him too, and then burns his purple shirts and tells the Cenation to shove it brother! Â The internet would explode, their would be riots world wide, children in tears. Â I dont see how else you can make him a believable heel tbh, as mentioned the biggest problem with turning him heel is who would in face in response? Â Sooner rather than later something will have to give, this current Cena era has run its course for me, I cant imagine another 3-5 years of this, well actually I can, its just I'd imagine many people will be switching it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Cena Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Re: Ian ^ That's one of the key factors in why a Cena heel turn should be held off for another year at least IMO; I don't think that there would be a credible babyface to oppose Cena just yet. Obviously there's Orton, but a true John Cena heel turn would be one of the biggest stories in the history of modern wrestling and it would need to be executed to its maximum potential for all involved to reap the rewards which I can't see a feud against Orton would achieve. Â I'm guessing that the actual heel turn will take place at 'Mania 30 against Undertaker in a similar fashion to what Ian described. I've talked about it in detail before on here, but I think that Wrestlemania 30 will be Vince McMahon's swan song and he'll have Cena go against 'Taker and have The Deadman fade out to the STF after some kind of gimmick (brass knuckles, for instance) is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undercover elephant Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Remind me who it is that thinks Miz goes over Cena clean on Sunday? That would be me! I truly believe that it's Miz's time on the biggest stage. Does it make any sense to drop the title so Cena and Rock can battle it out down the road? Then where do you start with the follow up the night after. It's just too damm complicated to get it right on the night. It's too good to be true! Â A clean win for Miz lets face it will solidify his status big style, and then only hope the decision making is not the wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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