Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Wow! Raw was great this week, honestly not a thing I didn't enjoy. Even the Snooki bit was pretty good, she had good presence and reactions, and her Thesz press was honestly better than Trish's, which looked very sloppy. Actually, with that, I'll get my only complaint about Raw out of the way: Trish Stratus really isn't being treated as a big deal, and unfortunately her rustiness in all areas kind of justifies treating her like any other Diva. Trish is doing more damage to her legacy and reputation in this return than Bret Hart did in his return last year (Bret had a better excuse for being shit). That said, the segment was good, and maybe Trish can get her act together and deliver at Wrestlemania. Â Rock promo was cute WWE comedy, but he made it work, as opposed to the lameness of Cena when he pulls cheesy crap. Â Mason Ryan was able to look good in defeat, even if he's out for a short period. Now the intensity can build for Orton vs Punk one-on-one without distractions. Â Morrison's whole leather jacket look works great, makes him look so much more badass. His twisting plancha in street clothes was sick. Â Cole is relishing this heel role. The Cole Mine was a true stroke of genius, and the segment with JR was good. Brian Christopher's bit was awkward, but it needed to be. Boy has Sexay put on some serious beef since 2000! Â Miz was perfect all night, the opening promo and the vicious attacks on Khali and Cena were excellent. He's rapidly proving himself as a main event heel, and the Rock impression was dead on. Loving how there's been a shift from the real life drama of Cena and Rock, to Miz inserting himself perfectly for a three way feud. Â Bring on next week's Raw! Not expecting a live Rock appearance next week, but he'll probably be on the following week and on the go-home edition on Raw. It's clear everyone in WWE is working harder for Wrestlemania season, and I'm loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I agree with a lot of what you're saying there, Showtime. It's incredible how little the newer fans of today know about wrestlers who were on top only a few years ago. My little cousin thought that the Great Khali was the toughest fucker on the planet when he was World champ, and that Mysterio and Cena were the greatest ever. He knew who The Rock and Austin were, but only had extremely limited knowledge of them. It's been eight years since Rock and Austin were about, bar the odd appearance. Can't really expect kids to have any interest. When I got into wrestling in 1991, I wouldn't have given a turd about Billy Graham or Bob Backlund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Cena Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I agree with a lot of what you're saying there, Showtime. It's incredible how little the newer fans of today know about wrestlers who were on top only a few years ago. My little cousin thought that the Great Khali was the toughest fucker on the planet when he was World champ, and that Mysterio and Cena were the greatest ever. He knew who The Rock and Austin were, but only had extremely limited knowledge of them. It's been eight years since Rock and Austin were about, bar the odd appearance. Can't really expect kids to have any interest. When I got into wrestling in 1991, I wouldn't have given a turd about Billy Graham or Bob Backlund. Â I fully understand this, I just think that for a lot of us it's second nature to presume that every fan that has come this way since that era ended should still mark out for Austin and The Rock and realise just how incredible they were, probably because it only seems like two minutes ago since they were the John Cena's of the wrestling world when in fact eight years is an eternity in pro wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Windham Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I agree with a lot of what you're saying there, Showtime. It's incredible how little the newer fans of today know about wrestlers who were on top only a few years ago. My little cousin thought that the Great Khali was the toughest fucker on the planet when he was World champ, and that Mysterio and Cena were the greatest ever. He knew who The Rock and Austin were, but only had extremely limited knowledge of them. It's been eight years since Rock and Austin were about, bar the odd appearance. Can't really expect kids to have any interest. When I got into wrestling in 1991, I wouldn't have given a turd about Billy Graham or Bob Backlund. Â I remember as a kid I had Royal Rumble 93 and it was the only tape I had with Backlund on and I thought "who's this pale, funny-face pulling loser and why the hell has he been in the rumble for 3 hours?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBoot Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Excellent show. More thoughts on it later. Â I agree with a lot of what you're saying there, Showtime. It's incredible how little the newer fans of today know about wrestlers who were on top only a few years ago. My little cousin thought that the Great Khali was the toughest fucker on the planet when he was World champ, and that Mysterio and Cena were the greatest ever. He knew who The Rock and Austin were, but only had extremely limited knowledge of them. It's been eight years since Rock and Austin were about, bar the odd appearance. Can't really expect kids to have any interest. When I got into wrestling in 1991, I wouldn't have given a turd about Billy Graham or Bob Backlund. Â That's very true. I mean look at a year later when they went on and on (and on) about Bob Backlund being a former WWF Champion (I think they even lied and pretended he was the "longest reigning champion") to try to sell him to the kids and teenagers who had gotten into it in the Hogan generation and it didn't work. By the time he redebuted everyone knew he was a former Champion (and they wouldn't let you forget it if you tried since there seemed to be some rule where the announcers had to mention it every five seconds) but it didn't change the fact that to the younger generation he was just some old(er) guy who they had never seen before and couldn't relate to. Â I think Austin is slightly different to Graham/Backlund in that he's come back so many times that even if they have never seen any of his actual matches (which I'd imagine is a high percentage of the kids) they are probably at least familiar with his name/face. Although that might be more in the same way a lot of the fans who got into it in 1991 like yourself knew Andre the Giant from his non-wrestling appearances and Andre of 1991 to his death in 1993 is probably the best comparison to Austin 2008 to present in terms of how much they were mentioned on TV, in the magazines, etc. but I'm sure a lot of those '91 era kids that got in when you did have never seen him wrestle, same with the '08 kids who have only seen Austin stun people, drink beer and go into the HoF. In both cases they know the name/face, know that they were a big deal/part of a big match that always gets talked about but they aren't really someone they've seen work a match. Not sure how familiar The Rock would be since he's been gone for so long - he may well be closer to your Backlund example. Â So yeah, I agree unless you were around at the time the company can tell you they were a big deal "back in the day" and you can even believe them (as I'm sure some of the kids do about The Rock) but should they actually care about someone who was before their time and they've never actually seen wrestle? Â I agree with a lot of what you're saying there, Showtime. It's incredible how little the newer fans of today know about wrestlers who were on top only a few years ago. My little cousin thought that the Great Khali was the toughest fucker on the planet when he was World champ, and that Mysterio and Cena were the greatest ever. He knew who The Rock and Austin were, but only had extremely limited knowledge of them. It's been eight years since Rock and Austin were about, bar the odd appearance. Can't really expect kids to have any interest. When I got into wrestling in 1991, I wouldn't have given a turd about Billy Graham or Bob Backlund. Â I remember as a kid I had Royal Rumble 93 and it was the only tape I had with Backlund on and I thought "who's this pale, funny-face pulling loser and why the hell has he been in the rumble for 3 hours?" Â Had you seen wrestling before? Because if not I think that's not quite the same thing as someone who was big into it in 1991 or 2009 or whatever not knowing the guys from the years before, that's someone seeing it for the first time and trying to make out who the big stars were meant to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Surely even kids can tell just from two or three times of watching The Rock do promos how much more charismatic he is than today's lot? I remember not caring about Bob Backlund as a kid, but then he really was a throwback - pasty, ginger, shit generic trunks, and no flashy moves or great mic skills to make him stand out. With all the gimmicks, colourful costumes and finishing moves, wrestling had moved on a lot since Backlund's day, but you can't say the same about the WWE's development since The Rock's heyday - if anything, it's regressed. Even if they weren't familiar with his films, they'd only have to see the way he deals with a live crowd to see why he's a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Probably. Just like anyone only has to see the way Vickie Guerrero deals with a live crowd to see why she's a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I can see why some people like her (or like to boo her, at any rate). At the same time, I've never personally found her entertaining and I can't see any way in which she makes the company money, so I remain somewhat baffled as to why a non-drawing non-wrestler who doesn't effectively transfer her heat onto her proteges plays such a large role in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicsGuy Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I can see why some people like her (or like to boo her, at any rate). At the same time, I've never personally found her entertaining and I can't see any way in which she makes the company money, so I remain somewhat baffled as to why a non-drawing non-wrestler who doesn't effectively transfer her heat onto her proteges plays such a large role in the show. Â You say non-drawing, but she was in the main event picture on Smackdown for months, and of late, when Smackdown started doing really good ratings on Sci Fi (and this was even before Rock returned). Â I think she's also helped Ziggler greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WeeAl Posted March 16, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Kids should know about these guys though. The first time I watched Raw and Nitro in 1996 and got hooked, I wanted all the wrestling I could get my hands on. I went and got tapes from the library, the shops, borrowed off my cousins boyfriend etc and watched the stuff from the 80's through to 1996. I wanted to see what I'd missed. I wanted to know what had gone on before the point when I'd first watched wrestling. I find it hard to understand that kids today don't want to do that too, but they don't seem to have the same interest. I couldn't get enough of wrestling back then, so to get your fix you had to watch old tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't know about the ratings, but what I mean by non-drawing is that nobody will ever buy a PPV, a ticket to a live event, a t-shirt or even a divas wank mag because of Vickie Guerrero's presence. IMO. I'd have to disagree on her transferring the heat to Ziggler - to justify the push and the amount of TV time she's had, Ziggler should be the most over heel on the roster by now (although association with her has helped to set him apart from other midcarders purely through having an actual storyline, if nothing else). Â But like I said, I'm just not getting it. If others like her, fair play. I just don't see her as any more talented than Stephanie McMahon was in the McMahon-Helmsley period. Annoying and dislikable, yes - some sort of master orator with boundless charisma, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WeeAl Posted March 16, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 I couldn't agree more. She does my head in, and not in a good way. I either mute the TV, change the channel or fast forward when she comes on. It's go away heat, and she doesn't mean a damn thing for business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I don't know about the ratings, but what I mean by non-drawing is that nobody will ever buy a PPV, a ticket to a live event, a t-shirt or even a divas wank mag because of Vickie Guerrero's presence. IMO. The same could be said of most wrestlers below the main event, and it's not really true. You don't have to be John Cena or Undertaker to be worthwhile. Booing the likes of Vickie and Michael Cole is a huge part of the enjoyment that people get out of the show, the amount of signs directed at them is evidence of that. Â WeeAl, you're right to an extent about fans researching the past, and it's easier to watch old stuff now than ever. But wrestling doesn't have to be a hardcore obsession for every fan. Some of them will just look online for Rey Mysterio unmasked or John Cena's debut or whatever. I imagine the ubiquity of old footage now makes it all less special now than it was in the early nineties when you might get one video a month or whatever. Â I couldn't agree more. She does my head in, and not in a good way. Which wrestling characters do your head in in a good way? Be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WeeAl Posted March 16, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 Well in a way that you look forward to the faces finally getting one over on them. With Vickie it's going to be so short lived as if she gets 'fired', it's unlikely to last past the next show. Miz annoys the life out of me, but I enjoy booing him. But I don't mind that he annoys me because I know at some point he's going to get his ass kicked. I probably wouldn't have a problem with Vickie if this was 10 years ago, as I'd be thinking 'maybe Bubba Ray will powerbomb her through a table tonight, so let's watch and see'. Â With a good heel you want to watch on and see the face beat the shit out of them, or maybe you just enjoy their antics. But with Vickie I don't enjoy watching her, nor am I interested in watching on to see somebody get one over on her. I just want her off TV as soon as possible. Different strokes for different folks I guess, but I don't see what she really adds to the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 16, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think she's also helped Ziggler greatly. She hasn't helped him one bit. He's not anymore over or any further up the card than he was without her. Vickie isn't going to give anyone the rub. Fans enjoying booing her. That's the extent of her talent. She's over as a heel that people enjoy booing. No-one will pay to see her get hers though, she has limited value. Hr relationships with Edge, Ziggles and that other guy show it doesn't rub off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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