Jon Venables back in prison

[Mandingo's Donger]

I understand what you're saying and there is definently a connection between peoples upbringing and there actions, but I don't buy that everyone is a murderer down deep. I know a guy who was abused as a kid, neglected by his mother and being beaten by both on occasions they felt like it. He grew up in a rough part of Bristol and ran with the wrong crowd for most of his life. He never took a life, all of his bad experiences urged him on to make something of his life. Now he's a good father with a respectable job in an insurance company. He did some stuff like drinking, heroin and car theft, but he drew the line at violence.

 

But my point wasn't that if you have a bad childhood you will be a bad adult automatically. Like the guy you knew, and like how some people who have a "decent normal" upbringing go on to be criminals, its the ubringing, and the things which happen to them in their life.

 

Plsu one very important factor : their inbuilt programming.

 

Child A bought up with the exact circumstances of situation B will turn out different to Child B. And it can only take 1 very slight difference in situation B to make child A a completly different person.

 

Its just a huge mismash of things which make us become the person we are. And theres not a damn thing we can do about.

 

 

 

Basically my point is my view of life is there are some people (a small minority) who have a default setting to cause pain and violence.

 

I'd say we all have that ability, its part of being human, but we also have emotions such as remorse and emapthy etc etc which nullify them. But in some people those emotions aren't developed as much, sometimes not at all.

[Steveo2007]

People still defending him? LMAO. Is it because it cool to be anti media?

 

What does he have to do to make it his fault? You people need to wake up and smell the coffee. If we made him what he is which is ,lower than an animal then tough shit, im feed up of paying for his life if we cant kill him then lock him up and throw away the key.

 

 

Here's something for you mate :

 

The only reason you are here posting on the internet and Venables and Thompson are 2 convicted child murderers is circumstance. Pure and simple.

 

It could of been you. You could of grown up to become a hated murderer. Same as everyone could if the circumstances of their upbringing were different.

 

What do you think of that?

 

Ok can you leave the posting to people with a slight clue? I dont care what upbringing you have at 8 years old i knew murdering a baby was wrong. Are you defending every one on the planet that does wrong due to upbringing? Im sure there are some here that had a shit upbringing and didnt turn out like them.

 

I dont buy the only evil because there mum was a cow shit.

So you're one of those retards that seems to believe that people are born evil then?

[Casey V]

People still defending him? LMAO. Is it because it cool to be anti media?

 

What does he have to do to make it his fault? You people need to wake up and smell the coffee. If we made him what he is which is ,lower than an animal then tough shit, im feed up of paying for his life if we cant kill him then lock him up and throw away the key.

 

 

Here's something for you mate :

 

The only reason you are here posting on the internet and Venables and Thompson are 2 convicted child murderers is circumstance. Pure and simple.

 

It could of been you. You could of grown up to become a hated murderer. Same as everyone could if the circumstances of their upbringing were different.

 

What do you think of that?

 

Ok can you leave the posting to people with a slight clue? I dont care what upbringing you have at 8 years old i knew murdering a baby was wrong. Are you defending every one on the planet that does wrong due to upbringing? Im sure there are some here that had a shit upbringing and didnt turn out like them.

 

I dont buy the only evil because there mum was a cow shit.

So you're one of those retards that seems to believe that people are born evil then?

 

Humans are like any other animal in as much as they can be born with certain instincts already present - calling him a retard because you disagree, that was retarded in itself.

[Steveo2007]

People still defending him? LMAO. Is it because it cool to be anti media?

 

What does he have to do to make it his fault? You people need to wake up and smell the coffee. If we made him what he is which is ,lower than an animal then tough shit, im feed up of paying for his life if we cant kill him then lock him up and throw away the key.

 

 

Here's something for you mate :

 

The only reason you are here posting on the internet and Venables and Thompson are 2 convicted child murderers is circumstance. Pure and simple.

 

It could of been you. You could of grown up to become a hated murderer. Same as everyone could if the circumstances of their upbringing were different.

 

What do you think of that?

 

Ok can you leave the posting to people with a slight clue? I dont care what upbringing you have at 8 years old i knew murdering a baby was wrong. Are you defending every one on the planet that does wrong due to upbringing? Im sure there are some here that had a shit upbringing and didnt turn out like them.

 

I dont buy the only evil because there mum was a cow shit.

So you're one of those retards that seems to believe that people are born evil then?

 

Humans are like any other animal in as much as they can be born with certain instincts already present - calling him a retard because you disagree, that was retarded in itself.

No, to make that comparison is also retarded. To make that comparison would be to say that every human is inherently evil until we're taught otherwise. I guess then you're suggesting that Venables was born with the genetic instinct to kill another child?

[Casey V]

Do a little research into your history, and you'll see that humans are indeed EXCEPTIONALLY 'evil' creatures - of course, evil isn't a very helpful word as it implies the objective validity of rights and wrongs which is a topic unto itself, so lets use the word 'vicious' instead. Look back over the evolution of human knowledge, civilisation and science, and you'll see just how pretty much everything this race ever achieved was done so through furious violence and bloodshed - so yes, I certainly would say that humans are a naturally brutal and violent race. So would I say that Venables was born to be a vicious little cunt? Yes I would - and before anyone pipes in 'why haven't we all killed someone then?', I'd point out that we're not all the same height and colour either - all people have the potential for violence, but some in a more extreme capacity than others.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Casey V

[FireBrand]

Weird.

 

I read this as Terry Venables

[quote the raven]

I have a serious question for QTR that I would like him to answer.

 

What's the difference between Jon Venables murdering James Bulger and you murdering Jon Venables?

 

Again........and this is a snore question i didnt say I wanted to kill him. Im not that angry i will kill someone i never meet. If you refer to the state killing him? Punishment for his actions. James was innocent, Jon is not.

 

You people are great. I make a point i stand by it, you read it wrong and resort to name calling and posting "funny pictures"

 

Well done.

 

If you think for one minute that thier upbringing was so bad that they had no idea that killing a child was wrong your deluded they didnt grow up in some country where murder is common place did they!

 

Im done with this thread now. The few that where capable of making valid points are being out weighted by idoits. I await someone to say that i lost and thats why i wont post or maybe the facepalm picture! that would be great! LOLZ

Edited June 23, 2010 by quote the raven

[Dead Mike]

Humans are like any other animal in as much as they can be born with certain instincts already present - calling him a retard because you disagree, that was retarded in itself.

 

No we're not. The nature/nurture debate has already been proven that there's no such thing as 'natural human instinct'. Cases of feral children, kids that have suffered extreme cases of neglect etc have shown that there's no such thing as 'natural human behaviour'. Our bahaviour is 100% learnt from our surroundings & other human interaction. In many cases of feral children they're found to have no concept of morality, social interaction, even how to walk, eat, shit like a 'normal' person.

Obvioiusly there are hundreds of other factors/variables other than that of just 'the parents' but the idea that someone is 'born evil' or on the flip side 'born a saint' is a lazy excuse.

[Loki]

The few that where capable of making valid points are being out weighted by idoits.

 

Beautiful.

[Casey V]

Humans are like any other animal in as much as they can be born with certain instincts already present - calling him a retard because you disagree, that was retarded in itself.

 

No we're not. The nature/nurture debate has already been proven that there's no such thing as 'natural human instinct'. Cases of feral children, kids that have suffered extreme cases of neglect etc have shown that there's no such thing as 'natural human behaviour'.

 

Proven by whom, hmm? Made an awful lots of assumptions there didn't you? The one about not knowing how to shit without being taught was particularly amusing, especially given that and pissing are some of the very first things a baby will do in its life - along with screaming and of course breathing, do those fall into that '100% learnt' category of yours too?

[Ronnie]

Proven by whom, hmm? Made an awful lots of assumptions there didn't you? The one about not knowing how to shit without being taught was particularly amusing, especially given that and pissing are some of the very first things a baby will do in its life

Without wanting to be overly crude, his example was a bit more than just the mechanics of laying a cable.

 

He added "like a normal person", which I presume means doing it in privacy, rather than on the floor of wherever they're living in front of whomever.

[Dead Mike]

Proven by whom, hmm? Made an awful lots of assumptions there didn't you? The one about not knowing how to shit without being taught was particularly amusing, especially given that and pissing are some of the very first things a baby will do in its life - along with screaming and of course breathing, do those fall into that '100% learnt' category of yours too?

 

My post actually said 'Shit like a 'normal' person'. Of course breathing & shitting are natural functions, you're misquoting me to fit your argument.

The '100% learnt' isn't 'my category'. The nature vs nurture debate was a long standing psychological debate as people have long wondered whether there is such thing as 'human nature'. I made no assumptions, I stated that it was proven in cases of feral children & extreme neglect that with little or no human interaction children have grown with no concept of morality or how to interact socially. There was a relatively recent case of a (either Russian or Ukrainian I think?) girl who'd been forced by her parents to live in with their pet dogs between the ages of about 3 & 9. When found she 'walked' on all fours & exhibited all the traits of an animal. After years of intensive therapy she struggled to learn to speak & even in her twenties still felt most comfortable around other dogs & would regress back to this state when left alone with the animals. Case studies carried out on biological twins separated at birth have proven that a persons sense of morality & ability to interact socially are determined by their upbringing & surroundings as opposed to being genetic.

People aren't born shy, confident, rude, witty or violent. What part of this are you struggling with?

[David]

At the end of the day, we can sit here and read these debates about upbringing and the like forever, can't we?

 

The bottom line is this. He's a threat to society, and as such he shouldn't be released into society ever again.

 

If a dog is beaten and neglected by it's owner for years, then it goes ahead and bites a chunk out of my arm when i'm walking past innocently one day, what happens?

 

Do we take into account the fact that the dog had a tough life and that it's reaction was the result of it's upbringing?

 

No, we just take the dog away and give it an injection to put it down.

 

It's maybe not the dog's fault entirely that it did what it did, and it may not have been "born evil", but as a society we have to look at what action benefits society as a whole.

 

Removing Venables from our society, by way of a lifetime prison sentence, is what should have happened.

[Casey V]

As I'm typing on a PS3 I cant address all of Mikes points so I'll just go for the throat.

 

You cite that a human girl behaved like a dog because she was raised by dogs - so why dont dogs raised by humans act like us? Sorry chuck, but if you want to make an objective argument then it cant contradict itself.

[martyngnr]

You cite that a human girl behaved like a dog because she was raised by dogs - so why dont dogs raised by humans act like us? Sorry chuck, but if you want to make an objective argument then it cant contradict itself.

You are joking aren't you?