MMA: Past Fight Discussion

[wandshogun09]

Fuck it wrong thread 

Edited April 2, 2017 by wandshogun09

[jimufctna24]

As we are getting a bit nostalgic for Pride in other threads, I thought this might be of interest. 

 

Quote

 

"Pride never die," is a popular saying around MMA, and Henderson confirmed with The MMA Hour he keeps that torch burning strong years after he held multiple titles for the organization. "What made Pride unique was the show they put on," Henderson said. "It was the production, not just the fights. They had great fights but they had a great show, especially if you're there live.

You got a little sense of it on TV, but the live events were phenomenal. They had a little different rule set which made the fights a little more exciting. UFC had really exciting fights as well." And when it comes to what made PRIDE fights exciting, Henderson pointed to tactics the promotion used to ensure the action kept rolling strong throughout each and every bout.

"Pride would give you a yellow card for being a little bit passive, and that meant they would take 10 percent out of your pay. Guys aren't going to be passive when they felt they were winning and risk losing pay. "They started going over-the-top the last couple of years. They got a little happy taking 10 percent from people, but for the most part, it created a sense that you wanted to be aggressive because you didn't want to lose 10 percent of your pay."

 

 

 

[Chunk]

By UFC 16 Mike Goldberg was already using "the veteran voice of the octagon" to describe Bruce Buffer. Despite the fact that he didn't debut until UFC 10.

On to UFC 17, which sees the debut of Dan "Hollywood" Henderson:

And a typical 12 minutes of Coleman snooze-fest followed by the first head kick stoppage in the UFC (courtesy of Pete Williams):

Edited April 5, 2017 by Chunk

[Egg Shen]

The first and still one of the best

[AdamTH17]

To take advantage of my newly found Fight Pass subscription, added on to the fact I've got a couple of nights in by myself, I've decided to take the plunge and try and start from UFC 1, posting summaries of the fights, fighters, thoughts and my opinions wherever. I'm aware this is going to take a fucking age to even come near catching up, but hopefully this thread will serve as some motivation towards ploughing through it.

Starting off: UFC 1.

Date: November 12 1993 - Denver Colorado - Attendance: 7800 - Buy rate: 86'000

Gerard Gordeau vs Telia Tuli

In the pre-match interviews, Telia claims the strongest part of his body is his heart. Seems difficult to believe considering this comes from a 6'2, 420lbs shithouse. It's a weird atmosphere because nobody has a clue what's going to occur. We're off. They circle, Tuli charges in, Gordeau moves out of the way and wallops Tuli with a kick, knocking out some teeth in the process. The cutman is called in, completely going against the NO HOLDS BARRED advertisement they were going for, and the fight is called off, sending Gerard through to the next round. As abrupt as it sounds.

Kevin Rosier vs Zane Frasier

Two kickboxers squaring off. Rosier demonstrates his "overhand right" as he throws a right hook in the pre-taped video. Big, big size difference between the two. Rosier manages to drop Frasier but can't do much damage on the ground, allowing Frasier to hop right back up. Strikes are exchanged in the clinch, with Frasier stunning Rosier a couple of times. It doesn't take long for the two lads to tire, but Rosier has enough left to drop Frasier, clubbing him over the head and following up with some brutal stomps to force Frasier's corner to throw in the towel. Rosier is interviewed following the fight and he's gassed. Beyond gassed.

Royce Gracie vs Art Jimmerson

The infamous one glove. Lots of feinting in and out by Art, Royce grabs the takedown and instantly takes full mount. The tap from Jimmerson follows soon after. Excellent stuff from Royce, didn't connect with a single strike but ran through Art like mincemeat. 

Ken Shamrock vs Pat Smith

Shamrock is completely shredded. He's in fantastic shape, and looks like he could take your head off at this stage. The crowd is loving Smith, the hometown boy, as he makes his way down to the cage, so at least he has that going for him. He's also 250-0 apparently, which is interesting to say the least. The takedown from Ken is instantaneous and he spends perhaps a minute inside Smith's guard. On his feet, Shamrock slaps on a heel hook and it doesn't take long for him to take the submission victory. Dominant.

There's a fucking load of talking after this. 

Gerard Gordeau vs Kevin Rosier

Rosier is plodding after the quick finish but Gordeau is able to light him up with leg kicks whenever he gets too close. Some hard shots send Rosier down and he never makes it back up to his feet. I was impressed by how well Gordeau timed his strikes, nailing Rosier whenever his hands were down due to trying to get to his feet. He displayed good patience as well, not rushing in and picking Rosier off from a safe distance.

Ken Shamrock vs Royce Gracie

Without a doubt the most famous fight of this card. Royce goes for the takedown straight from the off but gets stuffed, yet after a struggle he pulls guard on Shamrock and manages to wind up inside the guard. He works his way onto Shamrock's back and applies the choke for a quick tap. Royce is chatting all sorts of shit to Ken after they separate! Never thought Gracie had it in him, it's like when Sage Northcutt started talking shit during his fight. A really fun, quick fight.

Royce Gracie vs Gerard Gordeau.

I'm all in on this fight. The best striker so far against the sleek, submission master. Again, Royce shoots straight in but Gordeau initially fends off the takedown quite well all things considered, backing himself against the cage. Inevitably, the takedown comes and Royce has no problem sliding himself straight into mount. taking the back and causing Gordeau to tap out. Royce takes a fucking eternity to let go! He's even worse than Palhares! Gordeau taps out on 4 separate occasions and Royce is still clinging onto his back! Anyway, the tournament is over and Gracie is announced as the winner, and he receives his honours as we go off air.

You could very much tell they were just starting off with this from a production standpoint. Announcers talking over one another, making cuts at the wrong times, constant mispronunciation of names, it's all very bush league. Standard of refereeing is really shoddy as well, with some very late, and very early stoppages. The commentary is really lacking as well, nobody really has a clue what they're talking about and it shows badly. The general quality is obviously hugely one dimensional, with nobody having any sort of clue how to prevent Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu, allowing him to march through the competition. You could see the general idea was there, though it was hard to go on from this with Royce looking so dominant. Really quick finishes in each fight made for a decently entertaining, really easy watch. 

[Divorced Dad]

I've also started watching the shows from UFC 1 onwards, up to UFC 10 so far and enjoying these early shows a lot more than I thought I would. 

Just watched the Severn/Shamrock fight from UFC 9 which was an absolute chore to get through.

Don Frye looks like an absolute superstar on the shows I've seen so far too.

[AdamTH17]

rUFC 2

Date: March 11 1994 - Denver Colorado - Attendance: 2000 - Buy rate - 300,000

Here we go then, the 2nd event in the history of the UFC. As you can see, attendance is down significantly despite running the exact same location as their inaugural show, yet the buy rate is more than tripled. The event was labelled as "No Way Out"

To get us rolling is a video recap summarising the events of UFC 1. Getting over the idea that everything is unpredictable as fuck, and how different styles might not work effectively depending on the opponent. Off to the announcer who runs us through the rules of the show. 16 fighters, which is double the number of fighters from the last show, no rounds and no rules. We run down the card and speculate who the winner of the tournament is going to be.

Royce Gracie vs Minoki Ichihara

Big John is in charge of this one, fucking hell, he's been around for an age! Ichihara is "a national hero in Japan!". That's a new one. Fucker doesn't even have a Wikipedia. Takedown, full mount, and shots to the body from the top from Royce straight away. This whole sequence takes about 10 seconds after the bell. Ichihara is actually managing to withstand Royce, nullifying his submission offence for a while and keeping him close to body. He isn't making any effort to move from guard though, allowing Royce to just punch him to the body over and over. A lot of smothering, a lot of blanketing. Gracie can't lock on a choke, but transitions into an armbar for the submission win. Weird ending, Ichihara's arm wasn't particularly extended, as soon as Royce got a grip he just taps. Just a showcase for Royce really, Minoki was never going to provide a threat to him.

The announcers recap some of the fights which aren't on this broadcast for whatever reason. Johnny Rhodes tapped out David Levicki and Orlando Weit finished Robert Lucarelli with some utterly brutal elbows. Not sure why these fights weren't shown here. 

We now get a video demonstrating karate. From Ichihara, the fucker who just got battered. Patrick Smith demonstrates his western boxing. This just turns into a montage of the various disciplines. This takes a fucking age. Skip.

Scott Morris vs Patrick Smith

No idea what's happened here. We've just skipped ahead straight to one of the quarter final matches, but I'm watching the event as it is on Fight Pass, so blame the UFC. Smith you might remember from UFC 1, getting tapped out by Ken Shamrock. Morris practices the art of Exotics, and won his preliminary fight following a 30 second submission. We're underway, and Morris instantly charges at Smith. Hilarious scene. Morris pushes Smith against the cage so hard that Smith uses the momentum to boune off it and take Morris down, winding up in full mount and mere seconds later bashing Morris' face in until the referee has to stop it. 30 seconds this lasted. Morris is wobbling all over the show whilst pissing blood.

Johnny Rhodes vs Fred Ettish

Rhodes took 12 minutes to beat David Levicki in the preliminaries, whereas Fred Ettish is a replacement for Frank Hamaker who pulls out of the tournament due to injury. The announcers point out that Ettish is going to be a lot fresher, yet Rhodes has the size and weight advantage to even things out. Ettish is hilariously shit, flouncing around the cage throwing kicks that have no impact whatsoever. Rhodes drops him with a straight right and follows up with another big shot whilst standing over Ettish. This is good as over, Rhodes is just whaling away on Fred with punches and knees but the stoppage doesn't come. Rhodes proceeds to slap on the worst choke I've seen to date. It ends up literally being a headlock, with Rhodes sitting on his arse whilst Ettish flails around. Submission win for Rhodes. Nothing fight. Ettish had no business being in that cage, taking that amount of punishment.

Orlando Weit vs Remco Pardoel

Remco has a massive size advantage here. 6'4 in comparison to the 5'10 frame of Weit, with a 90lbs weight difference! Pardoel is a black belt in Judo and Taekwondo, as well as a 2nd Degree in Jiu-Jitsu. He's got Gerard Gordeau in his corner. Remco chucks Orlando on his back in no time at all. He's got his arm trapped, and making Weit carry his weight. Fucking hell! Remco CLOBBERS Orlando with an elbow, you can hear the THUD and it's horrific. Holy shit. Remco is just smashing the fuck out of Weit with elbows and Orlando is OUT. Terrifying knockout. I'd say this was worse than Goodridge/Herrera by a long shot.

Jason Delucia vs Royce Gracie

Delucia is a Kung-Fu guy, submitting Scott Baker in the preliminaries. As is customary, Gracie gets the early takedown, mounts and slaps on an armbar. Delucia actually taps whilst he's on his feet, and it takes an eternity for the referee to break it up. Just over a minute this one took. Until Gracie can come up against someone with an answer for his takedown game, this is all a piss around for him.

Johnny Rhodes vs Patrick Smith

Expecting a stand-up fight between these two kickboxers. Some solid exchanges to start, Rhodes targeting the legs of Smith. Forget what I said in regards to a stand-up fight, as they clinch against the cage and Smith locks on a nasty guillotine for the submission to send him into the final. The lack of submission defence showcased on this show is really eye opening compared to the modern day UFC.

Royce Gracie vs Remco Pardoel

I'm interested to see how Gracie deals with the size difference between the two men, and especially if it hampers Royce's takedowns by any means. Remco is a proper big lad, outweighing Gracie by 85lbs. Gracie actually takes Remco down with a waistlock, which is a smart move. Shit defence from Remco considering how massive he is in comparison. He gives up his back and gets choked out with his own gear to send Royce into the final. Very impressed with how Gracie was able to adapt his takedowns to eventually work Remco on to the mat, and of course as soon as the fight reaches the ground, with this caliber of opposition there's only one outcome.

Royce Gracie vs Pat Smith

Hot atmosphere for this one. Royce has developed himself as a killer throughout the tournament, and Pat Smith is the hometown boy. A pure clash between a striker and a grappler. Everyone knows that if Gracie can take it to the floor he's won, so it's a weird one to hear the crowd and announcers react. There's the takedown, and Royce gets to mount. He only throws a couple of shots from the top position before Smith's corner throws in the towel, which the crowd isn't happy with. I presume he just wanted to get out of there. He knew he had zero chance on the ground and couldn't be fucked absorbing any more damage than needed. Gracie retains his tournament championship.

The Gracie family celebrate to take us off the air.

Another fun show. It's a huge eye opener to see just how one-dimensional the majority of these guys are. As I mentioned before, nobody has half a chance with Gracie on the floor, so until we find somebody whom can defend the takedown then we aren't likely to see a change from this formula. The overall production ran a lot smoother, the commentary was alarmingly better and more knowledgeable, and the fights were all short, meaning even if they were shit, they didn't last long. The crowd was very much into everything as well which always helps out. All in all, another fun show.

 

[Egg Shen]

UFC has some of the most brutal KO's in the history of MMA.

Quick bit of back-story on Jason Delucia. He actually fought Royce Gracie several years before UFC 2 in a gym fight. Delucia was one of those guys that challenged the Gracies as a part of the Gracie challenge.

 

[AdamTH17]

Took a bit longer than expected to get this written up. Going to aim to churn 3/4 of these out weekly I think.

UFC 3

Date: September 9 1994 - Charlotte North Carolina - Attendance: 3000 - Buy rate - 90,000

We're back for the third installment of the UFC. When we left UFC 2, Royce Gracie had his grip on the company firmly held. He had just won his second consecutive tournament, and in convincing fashion. Predictable as his approach to victory may have been, nobody was able to provide any form of defence for it. Gracie was the man to beat coming into this show, where the UFC reverted back to the 8-man style tournament as opposed to the 16-man tournament from the following show. As with the first two shows, there's a showcase and clashes between various different disciplines of combat sports, with the winner taking home $60,000. This was also the first show to be hosted outside of Colorado, and so far the lowest drawing event to date overall. The obvious plan for this show was the eventual rematch of Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie. It was the feature focus of the poster, and they were deliberately kept apart to try and ensure a meeting in the final between the two rivals. 

Open up with another video package. This time the main focus is of Gracie, detailing his general arse-kicking of everyone he's come across, from a plethora of fighting backgrounds. There's no doubt he's the face of this company at this point, and why not?

Emmanuel Yarborough vs Keith Hackney

Yarborough is huge. 6'8 and 600lbs. That's utterly gargantuan. He completely towers over John McCarthy, whom is a giant in his own right. He comes from a Sumo background and it's hardly a challenge to see why. Hackney is a practitioner in the art of Kempo Karate and stands at a meagre 5'11 in comparison to Emmanuel. He's got a frame of muscle but that size difference is jarring. Hackney throws an open-palmed strike, the first of the fight and drops Yarbourough, but Emmanuel is able to get to his feet where he shoves Keith through the door. The commentators try to say it was burst open at the same time as some dickhead trying to lock it shut. They re-engage, with Hackney keeping his distance with kicks and punches. Yarborough catches a kick but Hackney uses it to close to distance and just smack away at Emmanuel, constantly bombarding him with shots from the side. This goes on for about 45 seconds until Emmanuel submits to the strikes. Hackney's striking technique is garbage, but he's clearly got power in his hands. I'd be interested to see him again, but alas he would be forced to withdraw from this tournament due to injury. Shame.

 Ken Shamrock vs Christophe Leininger

This should be interesting. Shamrock is back again, in his second tournament showing. Christophe is making his debut, and is a two time US National Judo Champion. You'd think they would be giving Shamrock cans to smash through if they wanted him against Royce, but that certainly isn't the case here. Ken really looks the stuff here. Compared to his appearance at UFC 1, he looks a lot more lean and shredded. Leininger shoots a surprisingly sloppy takedown and is stuffed convincingly, but winds up holding Ken in guard. This gets maintained for a while, with Leininger hooking and keeping Ken as controlled as he can. Ken seems comfortable to just throw headbutts from the top, whilst Christophe keeps Shamrock at bay with some punches from the bottom. Christophe goes for a triangle, but Shamrock is able to sweep and take his back alarmingly quickly, and smoothly. Gorgeous transition. Leininger tries to sweep Shamrock, but Ken is too strong, and too stuck to the body and can nail Christophe with some hard shots to the head and body. The submission comes not long after. Shamrock looked fantastic here, his shoot wrestling was of a fantastic level, with his transitions on the ground and power from the top. Leinigner, despite all his credentials is completely gassed out.

Harold Howard vs Roland Payne

Howard is a Gojo-Ryu Karate specialist, whilst Roland is a Muay Thai guy. Howard even comes out to the octagon with his own version of the Gracie train! Roland is also the hometown guy, yet given how well Pat Smith did in his hometown the previous events, that may not be a good omen. Roland doesn't seem to want any of Harold on the feet and looks for a takedown, getting it, but not being allowed to hold Harold down for long. Roland's wrestling is questionable at best, his best tactic for a takedown seemingly to be wrap his body around a leg and hope for the best. He can however back Howard up against the cage with some kicks, but a big right hook drops him for the 46 second finish.

Royce Gracie vs Kimo Leopoldo

The champion returns! In his pre-fight promo, the announcer says Kimo wants to deliver his own version of "Kimo-Therapy" - taking home the award for comment that would have you lynched in the modern day. He also preaches the message of Jesus throughout half of the year. This is interesting, he's entering wearing a wig and robe, arms wrapped around a cross. Utter mentalist. Kimo comes out the gates quick, with Royce wasting no time engaging in the clinch. Kimo is demonstrating some good defence at the moment, preventing Royce from taking it to the ground. The commentary team rightfully point out this is by far the longest time Royce has remained on his feet. Gracie manages to somewhat stagger into a takedown, but it's Kimo who ends up taking Royce's back as they fall! Royce tries to spin out, but Kimo is strong as fuck and completely flips Gracie straight back onto his back. Royce is trying to get something going from the bottom, but Kimo's size and power is making that really pissing difficult for him, meaning all Gracie can do is maintain a guard. We even get some hair pulling from Gracie! Kimo is busted up a little from some punches as they head to their feet. Royce pulls guard and Kimo follows, only to be met with an armbar leading to the submission. Great fight, and just a preview of what could happen if somebody has the natural tools equipped to give Royce some problems. Kimo had those tools, but couldn't take advantage with his actual skill level. Nonetheless, a thoroughly entertaining fight between these two lads. Gracie would subsequently drop out of the tournament, blaming fatigue and dehydration.

Felix Mitchell vs Ken Shamrock

Mitchell is filling in for the injured Hackney, which is a shame because I'd be all in on Shamrock/Hackney squaring off. He's gotten himself a background in Shaolin Kung Fu. A rare example of these early shows where two guys are fairly equally matched in terms of physical attributes. Ken spends the first 30 seconds throwing some really sloppy takedowns. Given his level of wrestling, he's giving Mitchell, a Kung Fu fighter, an easy job in terms of staying on his feet. There's a lot of clinching, with Ken looking to apply a choke from a back clinch. There's little effort involved though, Ken is happy to just maintain control over Felix at the moment. There's a lot more clinching going on now. Just passed the four minute mark, Shamrock uses an inside trip to take Felix down and take the submission via a Rear Naked Choke.

Ken goes down hurt after the match, though there's speculation that he just didn't want to fight in the final after finding out Gracie pulled out of the tournament. Either way, he's out of the final, meaning in our culminating match, we've got...

Steve Junnem vs Harold Howard

What a mess. Following Gracie pulling out, Howard straight up received a BYE to the final, whereas Junnem is replacing the injured Shamrock. Between the two men, the total fight time tonight clocks up at a whopping 0:46. Considering the company was originally targeting the big rematch between Shamrock and Gracie, they can't have been over excited about ending up with Junnem and Howard headlining. Nonetheless, this is what we're getting. Howard's first offensive move is taking a flip bump. Naturally, it doesn't work and he takes a hard right hand for his troubles. Howard slaps on a guillotine and uses it to pull Junnem down, and it's in tight. Not tight enough however, Junnem slipping out and tagging Harold with another shot. He takes Harold to the ground with ease and punches away until the towel comes in. Steve Junnem is the winner of UFC 3. $60,000 for 1:26 minutes of work.

This show was a bit of a mess, really. The first round matches were all fine, and Gracie/Kimo was a genuine highlight, but as soon as Gracie and Shamrock pulled out then you've gotten yourself real problems. Nobody really gave a flying fuck about Steve Junnem winning, as literally nobody in the crowd paid to see him fight. Whilst the fights themselves were entertaining, seeing the promotions two biggest stars both pulling out of their fights wouldn't particularly leave me as a paying fan eager to purchase the next PPV. This has to go down as a miss for the company. 

[jimufctna24]

Clyde Gentry loved UFC 3. He saw it as pure pro-wrestling. I get what he meant. The twists and turns of UFC 3 were akin to Survivor Series 1998. Despite not winning the tournament, Shammers and Royce were not really beaten as such. Their auras were not really dented at the time. 

Also, despite tasting defeat, Kimo had a good enough showing for people to want to see him again. Not just as a fighter either. His whole shtick struck a cord. Junnem winning was an anti-climax (although Gentry somehow saw it in a different light)

Overall, it left the UFC with plenty to sink their teeth into when booking forthcoming shows. 

 

[Egg Shen]

yeh first time ever saw Kimo was at UFC 3 and i never forgot him, i think anyone who saw UFC 3 remembers Kimo, such a memorable gimmick

Hackney/Yarborough is one of the classic early UFC fights too, if any fight summed up the concept it was that one. Yarborough unfortunately died 2 years ago from heart failure, but he actually fought 2 more times after UFC 3, including another old school classic against Daiju Takase in Pride. He even tapped Miley Cyrus:

 

here's another piece of completely useless MMA infomation you may not have known, Teila Tuli who got his tooth booted out in the first UFC by Gerard Gordeau had a pretty decent acting career, he's regular in Hawaii 5-0 and had a part in Forgetting Sarah Marshall:

Edited April 20, 2017 by Egg Shen

[AdamTH17]

Happy to hear that Tuli is doing alright for himself! My lasting memory of him from UFC 1 was him staggering around the cage, blood pissing out of his eye, with a toothless mouth looking incredibly sorry for himself. Nice to hear that he's got something going for him still.

And Kimo is a character to say the very fucking least, my word. He's got the intensity shtick down perfectly, wouldn't want to be locked in a cage with that fucker for any period of time. I think if I'd purchased UFC 3 on PPV, I'd be annoyed. You market the show based on a match that doesn't happen, and you eventually don't see either guy win the tournament! The whole mantra of "anything can happen!" can be a real double-edged sword, and I think UFC 3 was a great example. Maybe it's exciting for some having guys drop out, but when it's your two biggest stars I wasn't a fan to be honest. It didn't help that Junnem and Mitchell were the two blandest fighters imaginable.

[Egg Shen]

Wait until you meet mini-Kimo a few shows down the line...

 

[Rey_Piste]

I must've seen those first 4 shows dozens of times. I rented out the UFC 1 and 2 double pack from my local rental shop a whole load of times I know the shop's copy of the first show got some serious wear and tear from me rewinding and watching Tuli getting his face kicked in. Just because I didn't have any knowledge of Pancrase and a lot of the other stuff going on in Japan at the time, it was so unlike anything else at the time.

Look at that box, Mark Rosier getting smashed with an uppercut and the tagline of There are no rules. No wonder 15 year old me was obsessed with it. I kept waiting to see UFC 6 turn up in the video shop, not knowing it wasn't released back in the day.

[Egg Shen]

My start in MMA was similar to yours, so many people got hooked by that initial set of VHS tapes. I too rented them from the local video store although i can't recall if i rented UFC 1 or 2 first, but i remember where i was when i watched it, and i remember which mate's dad went into the store to rent it for us as it was 18. My only other vivid memory was being highly disappointed with it. I think as a kid you picture martial arts fights to resemble movie fights the early UFC's were as far removed from them as possible. I do remember being excited at the pre-fight vignettes where guys would talk up their credentials, then they'd hit the cage and it would be a sloppy, streetfight-esque mess. It wasn't great but it intrigued me.

It wasn't until i started following wrestling closely through the internet that i got dragged back over to MMA, it was always going to happen though because i had an early fascination with boxing too.