The Super Duper Rugby Union Thread

[mikey]

While it's early to say for sure, I'd like to think that the inclusion of Italian teams in the Celtic League has been a factor in the improvement of their International team. Perhaps giving a couple of guaranteed places in the Heineken for Romanian, Georgian, Spanish and Portuguese sides might be of use. Granted they'd get mullered, but it'd be good for them

 

The Spanish have entered their champions into the European Challenge Cup for a few years and they finally won a match this year, at the umpteenth time of asking. There's talk of more. The Russian Air Force team, a German academy team from Heidelberg and a Georgian team. The Portuguese want to enter and follow the Romanian model of a "franchise" with the best domestic players.

 

And these countries have been trying to raise standards. Spain have a franchise league ala the Celtic League called Superiberica Rugby, which runs on a different season to club rugby and takes players from the main rugby areas and clubs, i.e. Madrid, the Basque country, Valladolid, Barcelona, Seville and the Costa Blanca. However, plans for four Portguese franchises and one Gibraltan franchise have yet to come to fruition. I honestly think rugby's doing reasonably well, they need time, money and patience though and the latter is what the IRB could possibly provide.

[PowerButchi]

I used to play in University with someone who played to a high standard in Spain. Victor his name was. He was a powerful blindside flanker.

 

He smashed my nose everywhere with his knee trying to clear a ruck I was bottom of, which was nice.

[Slapnut]

No matter how close to victory they get, Wales just can't seem to escape fourth place.

[matbro1984]

Really is feast or famine with Wales. You never see them take 2nd or 3rd. They're either getting a grand slam or languishing in the bottom half of the table. No consistency at all.

 

I'm currently arguing with my friends on Facebook that despite what the headlines will say tomorrow, Wales are the ones who really bottled it today. They went into that match with a slim chance of taking the championship, but ended up doing so badly they finish as 4th. Awful.

 

Also, who's Shaun Edwards punched to get himself suspended/sacked?

[PowerButchi]

Edwards is on the outs?

 

One man needs to go, and that's Rob Howley.

[Up Chuck]

Right, the preliminary World Cup squads are all coming out now, so I figured it was time to bump this bad boy.

 

Here's the England squad, anyhow:

 

Forwards: Mouritz Botha (Saracens), George Chuter (Leicester Tigers), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Paul Doran-Jones (Northampton Saints), Nick Easter (Harlequins), Hendre Fourie (Sale Sharks), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Unattached), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Lee Mears, Lewis Moody (both Bath), Tom Palmer (Stade Fran

[Up Chuck]

While I'm at it, Wales' squad:

 

Forwards: Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Lloyd Burns (Newport Gwent Dragons), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets); Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington, Paul James (both Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Craig Mitchell (Exeter), John Yapp (Blues); Luke Charteris (Dragons), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Lou Reed (Scarlets); Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andy Powell (Sale), Jonathan Thomas, Justin Tipuric (both Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Sam Warburton (Blues), Martyn Williams (Blues).

Backs: Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dwayne Peel (Sale), Lloyd Williams (Blues), Richie Rees (Blues); Stephen Jones, Rhys Priestland (both Scarlets), Jason Tovey (Dragons), James Hook (Perpignan); Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (unattached), Jamie Roberts (Blues); George North (Scarlets), Aled Brew (Dragons), Morgan Stoddart, Scott Williams (both Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).

 

And Scotland's:

 

Backs: Joe Ansbro (Northampton); Mike Blair, Ben Cairns (both Edinburgh), Chris Cusiter (Glasgow), Jack Cuthbert (Bath), Simon Danielli (Ulster), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh), Max Evans (Glasgow), Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh), Rory Lamont (Toulon), Sean Lamont (Scarlets), Rory Lawson (Gloucester), Graeme Morrison (Glasgow), Dan Parks (Cardiff), Chris Paterson (Edinburgh), Hugo Southwell (Stade Fran

[PowerButchi]

So, todays game.

 

Huge amount of heart shown by Wales. We broke the spirit of the English, and our back row is a true force to be reckoned with.

 

Imagine this for forwards...

 

 

 

G.Jenkins-----Rees/Hibbard--------A.Jones

------B.Davies-------------A.W.Jones--------

D.Lydiate-----T.FALETAU------S.Warburton

 

 

That would be a great 8 men. Our back row is fantastic at the moment, thought I do hope Gareth Delve gets a game against the Argies as he's been pulling up trees in the SH as of late. Phillips and Roberts have finally played a decent game instead of living off the Lions tour of 2009 and Henson looked really good in his short spell. The amount of heart and steel shown today was a joy to behold, and has exposed England as bottlers due to Martin Johnson's allergy to contemporary rugby. Up the jumper with no imagination for 60 minutes, England put their heads down, and we did them. Mike "Archaic" Tindall as captain is always a bad sign (And the epitome of "A Royal Cunt"). You have to move with the game, because it won't move with you, and Johnson proved today why he's going to be the bane of the English side. There's some great talents there (Delon Armitage is a fine one, in my opinion), but they have to play like it isn't 2003.

 

And congratuations to Matt Banahan for having the biggest 'mare in recent rugby memory.

Edited August 13, 2011 by ButchReedMark

[matbro1984]

Absolutely shit game for the neutral to watch. Ashton being on the field might have done something about that; he's their only great attack option.

 

Wales were absolutely heroic in defence today. It is remarkable they weathered so much of England's driving without conceding anything but a few penalties, evne when a man down. They'll bloody well need that if they're going to stand up to the likes of Fiji.

[PowerButchi]

Against Fiji we'll put 20 on them playing like today. Our Forwards will knacker them and make them scrummage and re-scrummage like the English did us. I don't think the Fijians have our fitness levels though. That needs to be our plan of attack against Fiji and Samoa, as at the moment (and for probably the first time in my lifetime) we've got a real strong forward unit. We need to play set pieces and go through the phases before opening up as the game goes on. If their forwards are shagged, their shit hot backs won't get ball. If our back row are nuisances at the breakdown, and Jones/Jenkins/Rees or Hibbard are fit we'll muller them in the scrum, and we should be home free. We just shouldn't fall into playing a loose game against them (as much as we love to do it, and as great as it is to watch). Play in the tight, and then have a loose game as they start to breathe heavy.

Edited August 13, 2011 by ButchReedMark

[patiirc]

Didnt watch the rugby this weekend, but by all accounts was not as utterly awful as the Ireland/ Scotland game last week which is something I spose.

 

I should start paying attention more. But kicking as being the be and end all of games is ruining it for me a lil and Ive fell out of love with it.

[Up Chuck]

Thoughts on England from yesterday:

 

- Flood's kicking seems to be back on form. He wasn't quite the sheer pro that Wilkinson was last week but I think talk of the no.10 shirt being handed back is a touch premature. I'd say start him against Ireland, give him the first half, and if he performs, keep him on til 60 minutes in to give Wilkinson a bit of a run-out. I am concerned, though, that Flood doesn't seem to have a truly world-class game without Ben Youngs inside him, and Youngs isn't at his best unless the pack is on the front foot. It's a nasty trickle-down effect if something goes wrong up front.

 

- Tindall didn't look bad for his age, but that's a suffix one shouldn't have to append at international level. Looks like Tuilagi's time is now, and His Royal Highness will suffice as solid cover in a pinch.

 

- I'm completely turned around on Danny Care, he looks a million times more dangerous than he did in the Six Nations. I think Youngs' reliance on the pack moving forwards could play into Care's hands and get him a few starts against teams with on-form forwards. Ideally, Youngs'll come back strong from the injury and they'll push each other hard for the 9 shirt. But we'll see.

 

- Matt Banahan and Shontayne Hape... hard to know what to say at this point. I get the feeling Banahan will always stick around based on sheer bulk, but you get the feeling there are better guys out there. Obviously he was a last minute inclusion here, but Sharples coming in for Ashton would have been a far more interesting prospect in my mind. As for Hape... well, I really don't mean to harp on and on about Leicester guys, but come ON, even Hape himself must be wondering how he got into the squad ahead of Anthony Allen. It's unbelievably harsh that Allen's mediocre England games seem to have tarnished him forever, because he was magnificent for Tigers last season. He's not spectacular, but he's a true grafter and knows how to play outside Flood and, crucially, inside Tuilagi. I imagine he'd feed just as well off Wilkinson too. Ah well. Tuilagi and Flutey would definitely be my starting centres now.

 

 

I'm sure I had more to say but I'll leave it for now. Fair play to Wales, that was a match won fair and square. Hook was absolutely excellent. They should make the quarters in NZ without too much trouble. As for England, I'm downgrading my prediction of losing to NZ in the final, to squeezing past France in the quarters and going out to Australia in the semis.

[Up Chuck]

Final World Cup squads are coming from all sides today. Here's England:

 

Backs: Full-backs: Delon Armitage (London Irish), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints). Wings: Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks), Matt Banahan (Bath). Centres: Shontayne Hape (London Irish), Mike Tindall (Gloucester), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers). Fly-halves: Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon). Scrum-halves: Joe Simpson (London Wasps), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

 

Forwards: Props: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks), Matt Stevens (Saracens), David Wilson (Bath). Hookers: Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Lee Mears (Bath), Steve Thompson (London Wasps). Locks: Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Tom Palmer (Stade Francais), Simon Shaw (London Wasps). Back row: Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Nick Easter (Harlequins), James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams), Lewis Moody (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

 

Utterly dumbfounded that Flutey has been cut while Hape is still there. I can only hope Johnson remembers the benefit of having Catt play at 12 outside Wilkinson in 2003, and pulls a similar combo with Wilkinson at 12 outside Flood, although I get the feeling that if that was the plan, there'd be another fly-half in the squad. Balls. Let's hope the very exciting prospect of a Tuilagi/Ashton combination can inspire the backline a bit.

 

Anywho, other squads out today include Wales...

Forwards: Gethin Jenkins (Blues), Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Huw Bennett, Ryan Bevington, Adam Jones, Paul James (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Craig Mitchell (Exeter), Bradley Davies, Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Luke Charteris, Danny Lydiate, Toby Faletau (Dragons), Ryan Jones, Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks).

 

Backs: Michael Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Jonathan Davies, Stephen Jones, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues), Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), Aled Brew (Dragons), Shane Williams (Ospreys), George North (Scarlets).

 

... Ireland, with surprise omissions in Tomas O'Leary and Luke Fitzgerald...

Backs: Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster), Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers), Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster), Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt), Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)

 

Forwards: Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks), Tom Court (Malone/Ulster), Sean Cronin (Leinster), Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster), Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster), Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster), Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster), Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster), Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)

 

... Scotland...

Backs: Joe Ansbro (London Irish), Mike Blair (Edinburgh), Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Simon Danielli (Ulster), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh), Max Evans (Castres), Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors), Rory Lamont (Toulon), Sean Lamont (Scarlets), Rory Lawson (Gloucester), Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), Dan Parks (Cardiff Blues), Chris Paterson (Edinburgh).

 

Forwards: John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross (Edinburgh), Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks), Ross Ford (Edinburgh), Richie Gray, Dougie Hall (both Glasgow Warriors), Jim Hamilton (Gloucester), Nathan Hines (Clermont Auvergne), Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh), Alastair Kellock (captain, Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Gloucester), Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors), Euan Murray (Newcastle Falcons), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh), Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester), Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks).

 

... and France, with no Sylvain Marconnet or Thomas Domingo:

Forwards: Fabien Barcella, Julien Bonnaire, Luc Ducalcon, Thierry Dusautoir (captain), Imanol Harinordoquy, Guilhem Guirado, Nicolas Mas, Romain Millo-Chluski, Raphael Lakafia, Lionel Nallet, Fulgence Ouedraogo, Pascal Pape, Louis Picamoles, Julien Pierre, Jean-Baptiste Poux, William Servat, Dimitri Szarzewski.

 

Backs: Vincent Clerc, Patrice Estebanez, Cedric Heymans, David Marty, Maxime Medard, Maxime Mermoz, Alexis Palisson, Morgan Parra, Aurelien Rougerie, David Skrela, Damien Traille, Francois Trinh-Duc, Dimitri Yachvili.

 

Thoughts? Butch, what d'you make of Sam Warburton as captain for Wales?

[chokeout]

No real shocks (apart from the choice of Captain) in the Wales squad, nice to see Powell have a place and could well be a chance for North to make a name for himself

[Up Chuck]

England team vs Ireland:

 

15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)

14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints)

13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)

12 Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby, captain)

11 Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks)

10 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon)

9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks)

2 Steve Thompson (London Wasps)

3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)

4 Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)

5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

6 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)

7 James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams)

8 Nick Easter (Harlequins).

 

Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), 17 Matt Stevens (Saracens), 18 Simon Shaw (Unattached), 19 Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), 20 Joe Simpson (London Wasps), 21 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), 22 Delon Armitage (London Irish).

 

Johnson continuing his great faith in Shontayne Hape by picking Mike Tindall ahead of him. Hilarious.