Fantasy Book-a-Mania the Third: Post-Montreal Bret

[Supremo]

I like the idea of Owen going to WCW, and the entire Hart Foundation coming in as a unit. It was obvious Vince felt they’d peaked at Canadian Stampede, and was already phasing them out, but this is the same man who thought Hulk and Macho Man were washed in 93/94, and look how that turned out. Maybe a new roster of Americans was exactly what they needed.

However, even with Owen I doubt the Hart Foundation had much steam left. Reading Bret’s book, Anvil was always a ticking time bomb, and by 1998 this was the British Bulldog they had at their disposal.

(Any excuse to post this. Hosted by our very own @IANdrewDiceClay!) 

 

[DavidB6937]

Jeez, That Bulldog would have lost whether he wanted to or not.

[AshC]

People didn't really go back down a level in those days. It was World title and then knock around there until you left. There were still legs with Bret and the right issue, putting him in with a newly turned Vader and untested Patriot was a misstep, but the Michaels issue was hot. Could a healthy Michaels and rising Austin have coexisted in 1998? Would Austin and Bret have turfed Michaels out, into waiting arms in Atlanta? Michaels might well have died, the trajectory he was on, right? While Owen likely wouldn't have. Could Owen and Bret have had a tag title run in 1998 as the moral guardians of WWF yesteryear? Who would they have worked?

[wandshogun09]

17 hours ago, Supremo said:

What I find most fascinating is how quickly they killed Bret’s momentum after Summerslam 97, to the point whereby he was practically worthless to both companies. The lousy bastards.

All his heat transferred to Shawn, knocking about in shit Flag Matches with Vader and the Patriot. I understand why the focus is on the screw job in Montreal, but the way they rinsed him of momentum and stature in those few months before Survivor Series is arguably just as big a hit job.

Yeah, I was reminded of this while listening to one of the recent Benno and Hamflett episodes. Most of us talk about Bret’s 97 as maybe his best year, and I do think that all around he was on fire at the time. But you look back and it really did peak with that title win at SummerSlam and then it was a sharp drop off almost immediately after. Within weeks he’s pissing about with the Patriot, who I actually like but it had no real juice to it. Even with Stars & Stripes Del seeming like the perfect fit on paper for the US vs Canada feud at the time, him just rocking up out of nowhere and getting a win over Bret on Raw was a bit jarring. Especially when the Patriot’s little push was only ever gonna be a short term thing. That Flag match at Badd Blood is rotten as well. I didn’t really think anything of it in real time but looking back I think it was all clearly done to take all the steam off Bret before they fucked him off to The WCW. And then they did that weird shite on Raw where they were insinuating he’d vandalised the Nation Of Domination’s locker room and was a big racist. Just awful, awful bollocks. 

His ‘great 97’ we all love was really just a great 8 months. January to August, he was phenomenal. The hottest he’d ever been as a character and he was delivering in ring and on the mic left and right. But it all dropped off a cliff massively from September and I don’t put the blame for any of it on Bret. It was clearly by design to sabotage and weaken him on the way out. Looking back now with the benefit of knowing the timeline and all the ins and outs, we know that Vince told Bret just after One Night Only that he wouldn’t be able to honour his contract, couldn’t pay him what they’d agreed and that he should see if WCW’s offer was still on the table. So Vince had probably already made up his mind a bit before that to go with Shawn and get rid of Bret. Sometime after SummerSlam but before One Night Only, he decided he was gonna get rid. And even during the One Night Only show, live on air, you get a glimpse into Vince’s little games when he outright says to Bret in an interview that they showed on the big screen in the arena, something like “I don’t think they LIKE you here. Do you care Bret? Does it matter to you?”

I get the impression Bret was not exactly enjoying the conversation. He said the UK fans did matter to him and stayed babyface here but even as a 12 year old kid at the time I remember thinking the whole thing was such a weird little back and forth. Vince was clearly trying to sway and influence the UK crowd to turn on Bret and was probably hoping Bret would heel it up more and lessen his popularity over here. The fact they were originally gonna have him against a white hot, increasingly popular Steve Austin at One Night Only was probably part of that plan as well. Get him booed in one of the markets he was still a babyface in. Then damage him in Canada on the way out at Survivor Series as well. It really was almost like a hit job, on the Hitman, straight out of a Sopranos episode. I’m glad Bret at least got to lamp Vince on his way out the door.

Shame what a colossal balls up The WCW made of his time there. 

[Carbomb]

On 7/29/2026 at 4:39 PM, Supremo said:

I like the idea of Owen going to WCW, and the entire Hart Foundation coming in as a unit. It was obvious Vince felt they’d peaked at Canadian Stampede, and was already phasing them out, but this is the same man who thought Hulk and Macho Man were washed in 93/94, and look how that turned out. Maybe a new roster of Americans was exactly what they needed.

However, even with Owen I doubt the Hart Foundation had much steam left. Reading Bret’s book, Anvil was always a ticking time bomb, and by 1998 this was the British Bulldog they had at their disposal.

(Any excuse to post this. Hosted by our very own @IANdrewDiceClay!) 

 

I would have thought making a wCw version of The Hart Foundation wouldn't have been too difficult; make a "new generation" one with Jericho and/or maybe the Rougeaus.

[AshC]

If the Patriot and Bret feud had continued, they could have nicked the Taker vs Shawn stip. Del in a Cell!

[Jazzy G]

Bret staying in the Fed until Angle arrives and managing him instead of Backlund could have been cool. Or even just a call back to that feud with Backlund. Feuding with Bret could have been a great way to get Angle on the map. 

[wandshogun09]

I don’t think Bret would’ve ever fancied being a manager. And as nice as it is to think about Bret vs Angle, I don’t think we’d have got it as we’d wish. Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle is always one of those things that comes up when people talk about dream matches but when people think of that match, I think they’re thinking of 90s Bret vs the Angle of say 2002-05ish. I might be wrong but I doubt Bret would’ve hung on that long. If we got Bret vs Angle at all, it probably would’ve been early Angle of 99/2000 at best. Still would’ve been good but it wouldn’t have been what it could’ve been when Kurt really hit his stride and was on fire a few years later. Kind of like how we got that one Bret vs Rock match but it was when Rock was Rocky Maivia in the death throes of his original ‘Blue Chipper’ babyface run and it was just thrown out there on Raw. It’s cool to look back on but it’s not the same as what a Bret Hart vs The Rock match could’ve been just a couple of years later in 98/99 on a big PPV.

The thing with Bret is, even if the Screwjob never happened and he stayed in the WWF until he retired, I think he probably would’ve ended up retiring around about when his last matches were anyway. Late 99/early 2000. But by that point he’d have stuck around through most of the Attitude Era and had all those big matches with Rock, Foley, even Shamrock and Kane, more with Austin and Taker etc. By 2000 he’d probably think his work was done and would be ready to ease into a backstage role. Although I do think there’s a chance he might’ve hung on a little bit longer when the Radicalz came in. I know he wasn’t a fan of Malenko but I could see him wanting to work with Benoit again in a WWF ring and also with Eddie. I could see him having a few matches like that in his last year to elevate guys like that. Jericho and Edge as well maybe. But fuck, the more I think about this I wanna keep extending it. Imagine he stuck around into 2001/02 and we got Bret vs Rey? Bret vs Tajiri? I’d have loved to have seen a Bret vs Regal match as well somewhere in there.

I’ll stop now because I’m about to cry.

Edited July 31 by wandshogun09

[Carbomb]

I must admit, I'd always been intrigued by a Bret/Rock feud, because it's one that I can't imagine the shape of, and wonder how it would have played out.

Angle's a great mention, also - perhaps if he'd been brought in as a continuation of the feud with The Patriot, like his back-up to counter the Hart Foundation? And it would have been great seasoning for Kurt to work with Bret - we might have got his prime a bit sooner (not that we were deprived of much, obviously, as we got a lot of enjoyment from him as is).

Ultimately, I think the great appeal of Bret sticking around would have been the potential themes around the feuds he could have had. With Angle, it's a continuation of the Canada vs. US thing, but with a guy who could be touted as just as good at technical wrestling as he was, and a possible flip of the heel/face dynamic halfway through. With Shamrock, it's the threat of a new, "state-of-the-art" type of fighter to Bret's Excellence of Execution in a more traditional style. With The Rock, it's the sheer mystery of where you go with it - especially as, if Bret's not left, presumably Montreal hasn't happened, and there's no evil Corporate McMahon for The Rock to sell out to. Or perhaps Mr. McMahon character is inevitable, from what we know of him as a person in real life, and the Corporation emerges via a different route? 

Also, because of his superb match with the 123 Kid, I'd have liked to see how a match with X-Pac would have gone.

[wandshogun09]

Also wonder if he could’ve wrestled into 2002, would we have actually got Bret vs Hogan in the WWF at that point? There’s also the chance we’d have seen what Bret could’ve gotten out of a green Lesnar, Cena and Orton that year. Bret vs RVD? How the fuck would that have looked? 

[Supremo]

I’ve always been so fascinated about Bret feuding with Stone Cold in 98/99 that I’d never even considered a Bret vs. Rock feud from that same time period. They always speak so highly of each other, you’d assume they’d be willing to make magic together.

Again though, God Bless Bret, but imagine him trying to keep up with The Rock in a promo battle. He was stumbling and mumbling enough against DX in late 1999. His head would’ve exploded trying to bounce back and forth with Prime Dwayne.

I bet he would’ve had added another, “The,” to, “The Rock,” too. “The The Rock.”

Edited July 31 by Supremo

[DavidB6937]

"You know who I hate? Dwayne The Rock Johnson. I'm the only honest guy left in this business and yet you Americans all cheer for Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Why do you like Dwayne The Rock Johnson? His sharpshooter sucks. His acting sucks. Dwayne The Rock Johnson isn't the guy. I'M the guy. So screw you Dwayne The Rock Johnson."

[Supremo]

That might be the ultimate proof of how much respect The Rock and Bret have for each other. Bret still speaks positive about Rock despite that dreadful Sharpshooter.

Bret’s look of disappointment at Charlotte’s Sharpshooter was funny enough. They could have built an entire Hitman vs. Rock feud off how he probably judged The Rock’s technique.

[Merzbow]

At least you wouldn't have to worry about Dwayne eating Bret up and making him look like shit, from everything I've heard it was Hart who was behind him all the way when you had Trips and Shawn politicking to keep him down in '97.

[AshC]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

"You know who I hate? Dwayne The Rock Johnson. I'm the only honest guy left in this business and yet you Americans all cheer for Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Why do you like Dwayne The Rock Johnson? His sharpshooter sucks. His acting sucks. Dwayne The Rock Johnson isn't the guy. I'M the guy. So screw you Dwayne The Rock Johnson."

He wasn't even in Simpsons.