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UFC 260: Miocic vs Ngannou 2 - Mar 27 🇺🇸


Who wins and how?   

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1 minute ago, David said:

It's not often I admit that the Ebbster is right, but on this he's bang on the money.

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Well fuck me. There was always the chance. I’ve been saying it for ages, no matter how good you are, weathering Ngannou’s storm is easier said than done. But this was more than the old ‘punc

As has become a bit of a habit lately with rematches, I’ve gone back and revisited the first Stipe Miocic vs Francis Ngannou fight from 2018. Can you believe it was more than 3 years ago? That’s flown

The way I see it. If you want to do what's right for the sport you do Ngannou v Stipe 3 If you wanna create a mouthwatering superfight for the ages in fucking Zaire or somewhere, throw all t

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3 minutes ago, David said:

It's not often I admit that the Ebbster is right, but on this he's bang on the money. @Carbombwhat happens if they delay the Jones fight, put Ngannou in there with Lewis, and Lewis wins a decision? That's the whole thing fucked!

Oh, absolutely - which is why I say it wouldn't necessarily be the thing to do, just that that would be the only halfway-decent reason for not making Ngannou/Jones, and even then, that wasn't the reason White was giving.

I'm fairly confident a fight between Francis and Derrick wouldn't go the same as before - it would probably be a lot more exciting, and I reckon Fran would put Derrick away this time - but both @Egg Shen and yourself are right. This is heavyweight; there's far too much can go wrong.

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If the UFC played this properly they could have huge PPV numbers around the heavyweight title for the next year or so.

First off, Ngannou vs Jones. A gigantic fight. The GOAT coming up from 205lbs to face one of the biggest, heaviest-hitters the game has seen. For the heavyweight title.

Then, if Jones wins, you've got newly crowned two-weight champion GOAT Jon Jones vs the consensus greatest heavyweight in history Stipe Miocic. Another huge fight.

If Ngannou stops Jones then you have the rubber match. The trilogy fight. The man who just beat the GOAT, and the holder of the heavyweight title facing the consensus greatest heavyweight of all time in Stipe Miocic. Who wins the third bout with both guys at 1-1?

I strongly believe that Stipe would retire after facing either Jones or Ngannou again. He either walks off with the title of greatest heavyweight ever, or he passes the torch to Jones or Ngannou who can then lay claim to that title eventually if they win another few. 

But nah, let's just fuck all that off and put Ngannou in with Derrick Lewis. As much as I love the big guy, I don't want him fucking this up. 

 

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If you dont pay Canelo $20 mill, then you have no show at all, and no one makes any money. If you dont pay for Jon Jones and pay a few hundred thousand dollars for Derrick Lewis, you still have a show which would do only slightly worse in terms of buys. Not comparable. At this point, the UFC brand is so strong that I dont think Dana gives a shit if theres a "star" popping a big number on the buyrate. UFC fighters have absolutley no bargaining power at all, as evidenced by Dana not giving two shits whether Jones fights or not.

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7 minutes ago, Dai said:

If you dont pay for Jon Jones and pay a few hundred thousand dollars for Derrick Lewis, you still have a show which would do only slightly worse in terms of buys.

You think a Ngannou vs Lewis II PPV would only do "slightly worse" than a Jones vs Ngannou card? Really? Especially considering the absolute snoozefest the first fight was?

I'll tell you what, if you're right, then it just highlights how fucking terrible the UFC are at promoting their fights.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, David said:

facing the consensus greatest heavyweight of all time in Stipe Miocic.

 

as ludicrous as this may sound on first thought, Stipe's reign as the consensus GOAT could be a short one.

Francis Ngannou has a sneaky good resume that isnt far off. If Francis knocks off a Jones or Stipe again next, i may be ready to anoint him. If he then avenges his only other loss to Lewis, forget about, case closed. 

Look at this shit:

Stipe Miocic KO

Jaircinho Rozenstruick KO

Junior Dos Santos TKO

Cain Velasquez KO

Curtis Blaydes TKO (x2)

Alistair Overeem KO

Andrei Arlovski TKO

Anthony Hamilton Sub

Bojan Mihajlovic TKO

Luis Henrique KO

That's his UFC wins, 1 loss already avenged, and at 34 and given how late he started, he's may not even have entered his peak. 

Stipe still holds that mantle for now, but the next 1 or 2 fights could see Ngannou surpass his resume.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Egg Shen
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Hey, Zoumana Cissé isn't officially retired. Maybe they could get him in for one fight so that Fran can avenge all his losses 😜

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22 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

as ludicrous as this may sound on first thought, Stipe's reign as the consensus GOAT could be a short one.

As much as I'm on the Ngannou hype train, I don't think he's beating Jones. Hell, I wouldn't even favour him to beat stipe in a rematch. He's a good fighter with explosive power, but I think everyone's getting a bit ahead of themselves to be honest. Let's see him defend that strap a few times before we start calling him the GOAT.

 

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Think of some of the absolute mega fights we should’ve got over the years that didn’t happen. Couture vs Fedor, Lesnar vs Fedor, Silva vs St Pierre, Rousey vs Cyborg. Fuck, there was even talk of Jones vs Lesnar at one point. The thing they all seem to have in common is that somewhere along the line, Dana was a factor in the fights not getting across the line. He wasn’t the only reason in some cases, there were other things going on, but he was at least an obstacle. Whether it be contract disputes with fighters, money or even publicly trashing the fighters he’s supposed to be promoting. Pretty much every big name fighter bar Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes and Ronda Rousey have had some kind of issue with the big pink manchild over the years. Even guys like GSP who is universally liked and respected has had his problems with him.

He’s a cretin. He’ll brag about how well the UFC is doing, how big it’s gotten etc in one breath but then gets all defensive and aggressive if anyone dares ask about fighter pay. He’ll publicly gloat about how much he lost at the blackjack table in one night on the Vegas strip and it’ll be more than the total payroll for all the fighters combined on the Fight Night that weekend. He’ll talk about ‘Superfights’ then expect the fighters involved to just have crumbs off the table. What’s ‘super’ about that to the fighter if they’re not seeing any difference in pay? I remember when they were trying to make Demetrious Johnson vs TJ Dillashaw a while back when they were both champs at 125/135. It never materialised, Dana did his whole ‘DJ didn’t want the fight’ shite and fans lapped it up and shat on DJ for ‘not getting it’ and being an idiot for missing out on the ‘money fight’. But the money fight wasn’t going to make DJ any more money than his bog standard squash match title defences against the likes of Ray Borg. He ended up having to go and fight unknowns in ONE because master promoter Dana couldn’t figure out how to promote one of the best fighters on the planet. Hopefully DJ’s done well out of it financially but I still think it’s criminal that they let one of the most skilled fighters in UFC history walk away.

I haven’t been keeping up much with what’s being said on this Jones situation but I caught some twats commenting on Twitter yesterday, stuff like ‘he doesn’t draw huge on PPV so I get what Dana’s saying’. Utter shite. UFC fighter pay across the board is low considering what the UFC makes off their blood and brain cells. Think how much a UFC PPV costs in America these days. What is it about $60 right? A card that only does 300k buys still brings in millions of dollars. And Jones has had some big PPVs, the Cormier fights both did between 800-900,000 buys. He’s had a few above 500,000 buys. I know they have to pay chunks of that out left and right but when you look at the total they pay out to the fighters on these cards combined, it’s peanuts compared to what they have coming in. Jones’ base pay being $500k or whatever David said for his last fight, after 12 years in the company and a good decade of that being the champion, is insulting really. Fans bleating on about what a fighter deserves and what they are or aren’t worth can eat my arsehole as well. The UFC decided what percentage of the monster revenue they bring in will go to the fighters. So fans accept that as the norm and expect fighters to be grateful. All they see is, Conor McGregor did 1.4 million buys here, Jones didn’t do half of that = Jones doesn’t deserve anything more. But all the fighters, even Conor McGregor, are getting a smaller piece of the pie that they should be considering the money the UFC makes off them. That’s the point. The bar is too low across the board. The only way things will ever change is if more top name fighters do what Jones is doing now but we know it won’t happen. Just because Jones doesn’t have the PPV track record of Conor McGregor (not many do) doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be making comparable money to what other top stars in different sports do.

I’ve rambled. Basically...

Dana White to the media: We’re bigger than the NFL.

Dana White to his fighters: 

432C9382-C741-42FC-AB75-70C8F1C799DE.gif

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6 minutes ago, David said:

As much as I'm on the Ngannou hype train, I don't think he's beating Jones. Hell, I wouldn't even favour him to beat stipe in a rematch. He's a good fighter with explosive power, but I think everyone's getting a bit ahead of themselves to be honest. Let's see him defend that strap a few times before we start calling him the GOAT.

 

I dont know how a Jones fight would go, but if Ngannou/Stipe do fight again id find it hard to bet against Ngannou based on Saturday night.

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7 minutes ago, David said:

As much as I'm on the Ngannou hype train, I don't think he's beating Jones. Hell, I wouldn't even favour him to beat stipe in a rematch. He's a good fighter with explosive power, but I think everyone's getting a bit ahead of themselves to be honest. Let's see him defend that strap a few times before we start calling him the GOAT.

 

Hold on a sec there, chief. I definitely wouldn't say that, absolutely not. I love Big Fran, but prior to his performance against Stipe, we were still doubting whether or not he had the capacity to improve enough to take the championship. And whilst he did amazing and dispelled those particular doubts, he's still got some way to go before proving he's the complete package. He's still not as crafty as Stipe, and whilst I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't favour him in a rubber match, I definitely don't think it plays out the same way again. 

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you dont really need to be the complete package though if you can build up a record like Ngannou's. If Saturday was as good as he can be, he's probably on his way, cause whos gonna stop him? 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

 

I haven’t been keeping up much with what’s being said on this Jones situation but I caught some twats commenting on Twitter yesterday, stuff like ‘he doesn’t draw huge on PPV so I get what Dana’s saying’. Utter shite. UFC fighter pay across the board is low considering what the UFC makes off their blood and brain cells. Think how much a UFC PPV costs in America these days. What is it about $60 right? A card that only does 300k buys still brings in millions of dollars. And Jones has had some big PPVs, the Cormier fights both did between 800-900,000 buys. He’s had a few above 500,000 buys. I know they have to pay chunks of that out left and right but when you look at the total they pay out to the fighters on these cards combined, it’s peanuts compared to what they have coming in. Jones’ base pay being $500k or whatever David said for his last fight, after 12 years in the company and a good decade of that being the champion, is insulting really. Fans bleating on about what a fighter deserves and what they are or aren’t worth can eat my arsehole as well. The UFC decided what percentage of the monster revenue they bring in will go to the fighters. So fans accept that as the norm and expect fighters to be grateful. All they see is, Conor McGregor did 1.4 million buys here, Jones didn’t do half of that = Jones doesn’t deserve anything more. But all the fighters, even Conor McGregor, are getting a smaller piece of the pie that they should be considering the money the UFC makes off them. That’s the point. The bar is too low across the board. The only way things will ever change is if more top name fighters do what Jones is doing now but we know it won’t happen. Just because Jones doesn’t have the PPV track record of Conor McGregor (not many do) doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be making comparable money to what other top stars in different sports do.

I’ve rambled. Basically...

Dana White to the media: We’re bigger than the NFL.

Dana White to his fighters: 

432C9382-C741-42FC-AB75-70C8F1C799DE.gif

Problem is that a lot of these fans are Yanks like Dana, and they will all predictably say the same thing: "Don't like it? Leave. That's the market, bro."

2 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

you dont really need to be the complete package though if you can build up a record like Ngannou's. If Saturday was as good as he can be, he's probably on his way, cause whos gonna stop him? 

Howay, man - you know as well as I do that Heavyweight is the last place you want to try and predict the future. Everybody in the upper levels of that division is a banana skin to anyone else.

Edited by Carbomb
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42 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

as ludicrous as this may sound on first thought, Stipe's reign as the consensus GOAT could be a short one.

Francis Ngannou has a sneaky good resume that isnt far off. If Francis knocks off a Jones or Stipe again next, i may be ready to anoint him. If he then avenges his only other loss to Lewis, forget about, case closed. 

Look at this shit:

Stipe Miocic KO

Jaircinho Rozenstruick KO

Junior Dos Santos TKO

Cain Velasquez KO

Curtis Blaydes TKO (x2)

Alistair Overeem KO

Andrei Arlovski TKO

Anthony Hamilton Sub

Bojan Mihajlovic TKO

Luis Henrique KO

That's his UFC wins, 1 loss already avenged, and at 34 and given how late he started, he's may not even have entered his peak. 

Stipe still holds that mantle for now, but the next 1 or 2 fights could see Ngannou surpass his resume.

I don't rate his wins over Cain and JDS that highly. Both were shot to pieces, especially Cain. 

So was Arlovski really. 

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