jimufctna24 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Bunce is especially dismissive of it. I don't have BoxNation. My Brother has it though. He's a boxing fan, who doesn't have much time for MMA. I asked him about the fight last week, and his immediate response was to quote something Buncey had said. It was something about the Irish Boxing Champion having a losing record in the pro ranks, but that he would still be able to beat McGregor in a straight boxing bout. To be fair, that might be the case, but there is still an air of bitterness to it all. I agree that Buncey and Boxnation would be singing a different tune if they were in the running to show the fight. "It's the one we've all been waiting for" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 Another criticism I've heard off boxing fans is that MMA isn't proper fighting because they're allowed to kick. Don't get that one at all. Who decided that the honourable method of fighting is punching and that kicking is a cheap form of combat? Bollocks. It's all fighting. There's no polite way to batter someone and if there was it wouldn't be to punch someone in the head for 12 rounds. There's been more dodgy cunts involved in boxing than maybe any other sport. They're in no position to be snobby about anything. I feel bad keep saying 'boxing fans' because it's obviously not all boxing fans. But you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 purists exisit in both sports though, any time some kind of crossover type thing takes place you'll always have a brigade of miserable bastards who come out and complain and talk of protecting the integrity of their chosen sport. MMA is just as a guilty as boxing in that regard, it's just that boxing purists tend to be from a different generation. I still think it's sad that in 2017 we still have two seperate camps that argue the issue. The Conor 'half a sport' comments are purely designed to get people's backs up, i don't for one second believe Conor believes that, it's every bit a fight, it's just contested under very different rules to what Conor usually competes. That's like a footballer saying the 100 meter sprint is a half a sport because you wouldn't have to focus on kicking a ball whilst running. What's shit is, when Conor gets dismantled it's the MMA 'purists' who will argue that if the fight had taken place under MMA rules Floyd would get killed, which is true but completely irrelevant. Anyone who tries to argue that the sport they enjoy most is the superior is just banging their head against a brick wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 Neither sport is superior. I love both and they're both completely different. More different than a lot of people probably realise at first glance. But boxing is a limited striking match. I don't know how anyone can argue with a straight face that its not and I bet Conor does believe it. I don't think he'd mean it as a knock (nor do I), although he's framing it as one in the buildup for effect. But Conor has been training in all disciples of striking, using all limbs, for years now. Even with the added nuances that a pure boxing match brings, it's still a limited form of striking to someone who's used to using every weapon. Taking away kicks, knees and elbows means it is limited in some way. On the flipside, boxing in MMA is a very limited form of boxing. And that's where Conor will struggle because Floyd has 20-something years worth of experience and tricks he can call on if need be. Floyd had probably forgotten more about boxing by the age of 18 than McGregor will ever know in his lifetime. It's not a knock on either sport. It's just that in one sport you have to be a bit of a jack of all trades and in the other you have to absolutely master one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 it's a stupid argument though, again i'll go back to the athletics analogy, does anyone claim that the 100 meters is limited because all you have to do is run in a straight line, does that make the 110 meter hurdles a more complete form of athletic endeavour? it's two seperate things. Conor McGregor is stepping into the boxing ring, anyone who wants to argue that Conor's better overall though because if it was MMA he would beat Floyd quicker in that than Floyd could beat Conor in a boxing match is again bangiing their head against the wall because it's not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: I still think it's sad that in 2017 we still have two seperate camps that argue the issue. I think things have improved in the past decade. My head still hurts from debates I had in 2007. Some MMA fans thought that Boxing was on its deathbed, and some Boxing fans were churning out the old "human cock-fighting" arguments. 38 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Another criticism I've heard off boxing fans is that MMA isn't proper fighting because they're allowed to kick. I haven't heard that one yet. The one I hear often is that "they go to the ground" or "they fight on the ground" I think ground fighting is what turns a lot of boxing fans off MMA. A lot just don't understand it. Each to their own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Southworth Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Another criticism I've heard off boxing fans is that MMA isn't proper fighting because they're allowed to kick. Don't get that one at all. Who decided that the honourable method of fighting is punching and that kicking is a cheap form of combat? These people have had a lifetime of being told that fighting = boxing. When something comes along to challenge that, to change rules of fighting, they inherently believe that it’s wrong, that’s it not fighting, simply because it’s not what they’ve been educated to believe what fighting is. I remember a few years ago they were talking about MMA on Talksport, and the two hosts, whilst acknowledging the skill involved, both agreed that it wasn’t really a sport because you could kick people on the ground. That’s the kind of ingrained mindset you’re dealing with. One not based on any kind of reason or logic, but based on a lifetime of being educated into a singular way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: it's a stupid argument though, again i'll go back to the athletics analogy, does anyone claim that the 100 meters is limited because all you have to do is run in a straight line, does that make the 110 meter hurdles a more complete form of athletic endeavour? it's two seperate things. Conor McGregor is stepping into the boxing ring, anyone who wants to argue that Conor's better overall though because if it was MMA he would beat Floyd quicker in that than Floyd could beat Conor in a boxing match is again bangiing their head against the wall because it's not the point. The first bit you're right but it's not the same really is it? Because although different, boxing and MMA are at least both combat sports. Nobody ever compares football to 100 meters whereas the silly boxing vs MMA thing has existed for ages. The second paragraph, I'm not even arguing that at all. I didn't mention about McGregor beating Floyd quicker in MMA, or even Floyd stepping into the cage at all. I'm talking solely about the 'limited fight' comment. Maybe it's the word 'limited' that is the wrong choice because it makes it sound like a negative or a criticism. But for the life of me I can't figure out how anyone can say it's not a...let's say restricted form of striking. If you take something like striking and then subtract things from it and prohibit certain aspects of it that IS restriction or putting limitations in there, isn't it? It's not even about boxing vs MMA for me. Conor's point, while undoubtedly used to troll, has some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 hours ago, herbie747 said: Not sure how many of you are from Ireland here, but when Floyd thought he was smart by repeatedly calling Conor an "eejit"; it's like calling someone a silly billy. I guess Floyd got misinformed & it fell flat: "Hey, how can I insult him using Irish lingo?" Fr. Dougal used it all the time. Harmless. Yeah, it's a phrase used in Scotland as well, usually by smiling parents or older siblings to gently mock a youngster who's maybe done something stupid. I wondered who the fuck told Floyd to say that? 58 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: purists exisit in both sports though, any time some kind of crossover type thing takes place you'll always have a brigade of miserable bastards who come out and complain and talk of protecting the integrity of their chosen sport. MMA is just as a guilty as boxing in that regard, it's just that boxing purists tend to be from a different generation. I still think it's sad that in 2017 we still have two seperate camps that argue the issue. The Conor 'half a sport' comments are purely designed to get people's backs up, i don't for one second believe Conor believes that, it's every bit a fight, it's just contested under very different rules to what Conor usually competes. That's like a footballer saying the 100 meter sprint is a half a sport because you wouldn't have to focus on kicking a ball whilst running. What's shit is, when Conor gets dismantled it's the MMA 'purists' who will argue that if the fight had taken place under MMA rules Floyd would get killed, which is true but completely irrelevant. Anyone who tries to argue that the sport they enjoy most is the superior is just banging their head against a brick wall. Of course they are, and despite the fact that I wouldn't want to see the coverage put on by ITV for the actual fight, witnessing the seething anger of these old boxing heads is fucking great. i can just imagine Barry McGuigan losing his shit every time Conor called a boxing match "half a fight". The poor bugger was probably ready to uppercut his telly to fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, David said: Barry McGuigan Aye, Barry used to slate MMA in his weekly Daily Mirror column. Although, I think he's calmed down a bit in recent times. Still, he's the ideal suspect to take Conor's bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 I'm sure McGuigan tried to suck up to McGregor at some point when Conor started getting big in the UFC. Sure there were interviews where McGuigan was praising him. Then Conor was asked about him and basically said he had no time for McGuigan because he'd bashed his sport at every opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Maybe it's the word 'limited' that is the wrong choice because it makes it sound like a negative or a criticism. But for the life of me I can't figure out how anyone can say it's not a...let's say restricted form of striking. If you take something like striking and then subtract things from it and prohibit certain aspects of it that IS restriction or putting limitations in there, isn't it? It's not even about boxing vs MMA for me. Conor's point, while undoubtedly used to troll, has some merit. I see what you're saying, but boxing is purely using the hands to strike. If you want to start labelling it as limited you can put Karate, Kung Fu, Kickboxing, Muay Thai (the list goes on and on) above boxing in terms of limitations. Conor's point my have some merit but he can't use it as an excuse or neither can his fans when he enters a boxing ring and gets spanked by a far superior boxer. He's signed up to box, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 One of the main reasons there's issues between the two is because they are both direcly a threat to each other. I can't ever recall a boxing purist coming out and calling kickboxing the shits, it's because kickboxing's audience doesn't even come close to effecting boxing's popularity. MMA came along and was the hip new thing that threatended to knock boxing off it's combat sports pedestal. It's pretty clear years down the line that both can thrive at the same time as long as both sports have stars and provide the fans with the fights they want to see, if anything MMA has helped boxing because they had to up their game when MMA came along. Now the two sports are merging on a level that has never been seen before and it's causing the people who liked things just the way they were to shit their pants with confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 17, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted July 17, 2017 That's spot on. I think they actually both help each other in different ways. I think the rise in MMA, and specifically the UFC, is what has led to Boxing stacking up their big cards a little more. If you go back you can find examples of stacked cards but they were rarer. It used to be almost solely about the main event for the longest time. Over the last say 5 years or so, Boxing promoters have really upped their game in this regard and I think the success of the UFC had something to do with that. And on the other side, I think MMA have taken more of that truly big event approach that Boxing has for the really massive fights, and tried to recreate that over the last few years. As well as borrowing from Boxing's pre-fight hype rituals in some ways - for example, that Counterstrike thing they did (wish they did more of it) was pretty much a direct ripoff of HBO's Face Off and Sky's The Gloves Are Off. Both sports are better for having each other around and on the nights where they're both on with something meaningful, they both generally seem to do well out of it. But on your post above that... How would you put Muay Thai and Kickboxing above Boxing in terms of limitations? Genuinely curious what you meant by that. How can a sport where you use all limbs be more limited than one where you just use your hands? And on the last sentence, how could McGregor use it as an excuse? Surely if he's saying it's 'half a fight' it's going to be an easier fight in theory? If anything he'll look silly for saying that when Floyd schools him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Conor's point my have some merit but he can't use it as an excuse or neither can his fans when he enters a boxing ring and gets spanked by a far superior boxer. He's signed up to box, end of. We can't use it as an excuse, but we can use it as an example of the obvious, can't we? McG isn't supposed to win this fight, he's simply there to raise his profile and make a shitload of cash, while Dana will be hoping that some of the casuals who catch this fight continue to follow him into the UFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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