UFC 178: Johnson vs Cariaso

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, Meltzer also said something like McGregor's reaction was loud but nothing like a Chuck Liddell or GSP.

 

It's not really a fair comparison as you say. He's talking about McGregor in only his fourth UFC fight, only his second fight in America and his first fight on PPV, and against Dustin Poirier who's good but not a big star. He's comparing his reaction to when Chuck Liddell fought the likes of Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture in PPV main events during a hot period for the sport when you even had the likes of George Clooney and Pamela Anderson showing up. Of course it won't be as loud. The fucker's only just got off Fight Pass and prelims.

 

Chuck and GSP certainly weren't getting reactions like McGregor did in only their fourth UFC fight though. And that's the difference. Liddell's peak was 2006. McGregor is almost getting as big reactions and he's only just starting.

 

I love this picture...

 

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Managed to watch the show live, but just getting around to posting about it now. It's been a crazy couple of days to say the least.

 

Mighty Mouse smashed Cariaso as expected. The live underdog factor that was present with Dillashaw, and to a lesser extent, Soto, was negated here. We've seen Cariaso fight for far too long now, we know his level, and we know that he has nothing to battle with one of the pound for pound best. Flyweight is in a really odd position, being so shallow. I haven't kept tabs on flyweight as closely as other divisions, but the way I see it is that all the next title fights, or at least, the best ones to be made, are rematches. Dodson, McCall and Benavidez.

 

Cerrone vs. Alvarez wasn't quite as good as I was expecting. I didn't realise how small Eddie was next to Cowboy- his best shots in the clinch seemed to have exactly zero effect. This is one time that I disagree with my usual MMA source, The Torch, who claimed that this fight was a "classic" and that it "needed 5 rounds". Cerrone owned that fight apart from those clinch shots in the first from Alvarez.

 

Conor is a MMA god! [/JBL voice]

 

Tremendous showing from McGregor. Nothing more satisfying than a charismatic fighter that can back up everything he says in flashy, devastating fashion. Give him the next title fight, strike while the iron is hot. Sonnen got his shots on far less merit. Swanson and Edgar have already lost to Aldo, so who better?

 

Kennedy vs. Romero... my stream actually froze during "Stoolgate", but whatever, Kennedy is shit and I enjoyed seeing him get beat by an old, gassed, MMA rookie that he nearly had finished moments earlier. Plus, they got FOTN money, so Kennedy should really quit moaning. Fuck him.

 

Nunes vs. Zingano might be the best women's fight yet in UFC action-wise. Rousey-Tate II had a bigger atmosphere, but this was a better fight. Sick DDT throws, and great heart from Zingano. I don't think Nunes loses a whole lot either, she looked like a killer for significant spells during the fight.

 

Last, Dominick Cruz. My dislike of him is well documented, but all the credit in the world to him for turning up the aggression and destroying Mizugaki- something like the first time he was stopped by strikes in 7 years? Glad to see he is getting the next title fight with Dillashaw, well deserved. Much like Michael Bisping the other week, this was the type of performance to turn me from a hater to a fan.

 

First, the Japan show with Hunt winning, now an excellent top to bottom show at 178. UFC is heading upwards again.

[Noah Southworth]

I had forgotten until rewatching Cruz destroy Mizugaki, but Cruz said that if Barao had been taken out of the UFC 177 main event on the Tuesday before, then he would have been willing to step up and take on Dillashaw. How crazy would it have been if that had happened, now we've seen Cruz back in action? Cruz could have ended up winning the title in his first fight back, as a last minute replacement. That would have made for a hell of a story.

[wandshogun09]

I haven't kept tabs on flyweight as closely as other divisions, but the way I see it is that all the next title fights, or at least, the best ones to be made, are rematches. Dodson, McCall and Benavidez.

Mouse is 2-0 over Benavidez though. It'll be hard to see how he gets another crack while Johnson holds the belt. Even in a shallow division. Especially with how their second fight went.

 

The Dodson rematch is a must. He's the only guy I can see really giving Mouse problems plus there's potential for them to actually become rivals and I think that's what Johnson is really missing. An enemy. And Dodson might be just the irritating little fuck for the job.

 

Creepy, I can't see him troubling Johnson much now. He can't live off that big round in the first fight forever. Mouse beat him comfortably in the rematch and he's in such great form now he's left Creepy in the dust for me. I don't think McCall has looked as good as he's cracked up to be for a while now. Maybe it's the issues with his hands constantly breaking but for whatever reason, I don't see him as a particularly interesting challenge at this point for DJ.

 

Aside from that there's a potential rematch with Pickett, I guess, but again, Pickett hasn't impressed at 125 and Mouse would likely school him now in a rematch. Would be good for Johnson's record though to avenge that loss.

 

John Lineker is the only other one I want to see. Not that I think he'd win. Just because he's my favourite flyweight. He'd have no more than a punchers chance though and would he even make weight?

 

Flyweight is a mess. Johnson gets a lot of shit but it's not all on him. He's almost a victim of his own superiority. When you look at 125 I think the majority opinion would be that the second and third best flyweights in the world are Joseph Benavidez and John Dodson. And he's already 2-0 over one and 1-0 over the other. He's almost legitimately cleared out the weight class and no new interesting challengers are emerging.

 

And it doesn't help that he reigns over the most uninteresting division in the UFC. He needs a mini Conor McGregor or Chael Sonnen to bounce off.

 

Cerrone vs. Alvarez wasn't quite as good as I was expecting. I didn't realise how small Eddie was next to Cowboy- his best shots in the clinch seemed to have exactly zero effect. This is one time that I disagree with my usual MMA source, The Torch, who claimed that this fight was a "classic" and that it "needed 5 rounds". Cerrone owned that fight apart from those clinch shots in the first from Alvarez.

Completely disagree. Cerrone didn't own anything. It was a great performance. I'm not taking away from that at all. I actually rate this as the best win of his career and it really feels like he might've finally gotten over that hump. But this was no domination or owning whatsoever. I really think Rogan's verbal-wanking off of Cerrone is colouring some peoples' opinions of that fight. Not saying that's the case with you but I'm not seeing this 'Cerrone owned him' stuff at all.

 

Cerrone's best complete round was the second. That was almost all Cowboy. Round one was Eddie's. The punches in the clinch mightn't have knocked Cerrone down or out but how many times do you see Cerrone get badly hurt from head shots? He's been knocked down before but he's always had a pretty ridiculous chin. Alvarez is no pillow fist either.

 

It came down to the third and Alvarez was getting the better strikes off for about the first two minutes. There was one long straight right in particular that looked like it really cracked Cowboy. Cerrone dug deep and turned it on in the second half of that last round and he had the bigger more memorable moments by landing that flush knee to Eddie's chin and dropping him with the leg kicks. That won him the round, and in turn, the fight.

 

No-one owned anyone to me. When it comes down to the last round to decide it and it's basically all decided on a couple of moments and exhanges, that's a close fucking fight. I agree that it didn't 'need' five rounds though. It was clear by the middle to end of round three that Eddie couldn't stand on that leg anymore. If it'd gone to a fourth I have no doubt Cerrone would've ended up stopping him.

 

I really liked that fight. Despite me rooting for Alvarez and being disappointed at the result, I thought it was a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind seeing Alvarez at 145 but I still think he can hang at 155. Cerrone dwarves a lot of lightweights to be fair. He's a fucking beanpole. Put Eddie in with a Melendez, Gomi, Pearson or Miller and he'll match up just fine physically.

 

I wish Alvarez and Edgar weren't mates and sometimes training partners though. Frankie Edgar vs Eddie Alvarez would be fucking brilliant. Then they could do McGregor vs Swanson in a #1 contender fight as well. Not going to happen though.

[weevil]

"UFC 178: Conor McGregor vs Dustin Poirier" is airing on 3e (the same channel that showed the Dublin Fight Night) on Monday night. 

[wandshogun09]

Smart move. If they want MMA to grow in Ireland, and even the UK really, they should really run with McGregor and get him out to as many eyeballs as possible. He's the absolute best marketing tool they have for the UK. If he can keep winning (I understand that's a big IF, but work with me), then he could potentially be to the UK/Ireland market what GSP was to the Canadian market.

[jimufctna24]

I bet the reaction to McGregor in Ireland was comparable with what Liddel got in his prime. It is an unfair comparison to compare McGregor to Liddel/GSP at this stage. To do so would ignore too much context and circumstances. The location of the fights has massive bearing on the reaction fighters get. 

 

Iole is someone I have no opinion on. Bernard Hopkins did not seem keen on him, I remember Hopkins dressing him down on camera before his fight with Calzaghe years ago (I sadly cannot find the video)

[Supremo]

They're also filming a six part documentary on Conor to be shown on RTE. Theoretically that could be filmed up to and including his title fight, which, win or lose, could make it one of the most fascinating MMA documentaries of all time. Almost a complete unknown comes in and takes the entire sport by storm, (hopefully) culminating in a football stadium title fight in his home town? That's a hell of a story.

 

EDIT: So UFC 179, do you think they allow Conor to get into the cage and face off with the Aldo/Mendes winner? That's the type of thing the used to do back in the day, with guys like GSP and Hughes, Chuck and Tito or Rashad and Rampage, but they don't seem to do it now that they've become more of a sport and less of spectacle. Do we reckon they'll make an exception for McGregor? I think it could be absolute fried gold.

[lambyUK]

I've seen loads of examples of Kevin Iole proving he's completely clueless when it comes to the business and entertainment side of MMA, but to be fair to the guy, he's somewhat correct here.

 

The reaction to Conor was a bit disappointing on Saturday night. But then it was always going to be when compared to Dublin, where the loudest crowd ever treated him like a God. Plus, nobody has ever claimed that Conor is the finished product. Or that he's the most popular guy in the sport. What everyone has claimed is that he's definitely on his way to being that, most certainly has the potential to be that, and is light years ahead of most people with only four fights in the company. These "louder reactions," Iole has probably heard will be for champions and legends like GSP or Randy Couture. Guys who've been headlining shows for years, and at a time when the product was more popular and nowhere near as diluted. That Conor has achieved so much in so little time, especially in the current climate, is nothing short of miraculous.

 

The problem, of course, is that understanding stuff like this requires a mindset that most MMA fans and journalists don't have. You have to grasp how business works and sense what makes a star. Iole can't even grasp what a mess he looks tucking his shirt in like that, so the odds of him understanding how business works are very slim indeed.

 

Without doubt and I completely agree. At no point was I saying that Iole was wrong with his assessment, it's more what was the old twat expecting?

 

As Wand and yourself put above, he's never even fought on PPV before and his only other fight in the US was on a fox show and he was on the prelims. It's more a case of what's he actually trying to achieve? It reeks of the tit trying desperately to piss on the joy others for him to gain some attention.

 

I'm just sick of the same reporters getting this exposure because it seems that when MMA was in it's infancy they by chance covered it back then. It's just like at my place of work, there's a ton of people who work here that seem to have high positions simply because they've been here the longest.

 

FUCK YOU IOLE, and whilst I'm at it, FUCK YOU GAD.

 

 

Edit: Jim, regarding McGregor's recent in Dublin, for me that that surpassed any reaction any fighter has received in MMA.

[jimufctna24]

Haters going to hate Lamby

 

 

[ColinBollocks]

Looks like a Sandi Toksvig dream.

 

That Conor Meme is spot on. I'm amazed at how many people think he's still not up to it, and to prove so have decided Poirier is suddenly not that good after all. This is after reading that he'll struggle against a top fighter like Poirier. Daft.

[Egg Shen]

I really liked that fight. Despite me rooting for Alvarez and being disappointed at the result, I thought it was a lot of fun. I wouldn't mind seeing Alvarez at 145 but I still think he can hang at 155. Cerrone dwarves a lot of lightweights to be fair. He's a fucking beanpole. Put Eddie in with a Melendez, Gomi, Pearson or Miller and he'll match up just fine physically.

 

 

yep, reading lots about wanting to see Eddie drop to 145. I think people are forgetting how tall Cowboy is. Alvarez is a thick set lightweight, i'm not sure a drop in weight is the right way to go. He was just beaten by a superior fighter on the night.

 

As for MMA journalists, obviously there's hundreds of them but the more recognizable ones are generally a very unlikable bunch. I saw the Iole tweet on the night and i didn't know what to make of it. I just imagined Iole sitting there cross-armed thinking 'impress me' then feeling vindicated when the ovation wasn't as big as he'd expected, i dont know if it was meant to come across but it did for me. Obviously GAD is a cretin, Luke Thomas is up in own arse, i even get annoyed at seeing John Morgan's bloated face and stupid blue t-shirt cage side at every event...and i used to like listening to Morgan on Junkie Radio. They just on my tits.

 

I had a bit of a back n' forth with one of the main Bloody Elbow writers on twitter too, Jonathon Snowden. He's an MMA author and jouralist but is just so fucking negative about everything it makes you wonder why he even watches the sport. He's like David but in journalist form.

[jimufctna24]

I follow Snowden on Twitter, but never take much notice. His book "Total MMA" is really good though. Jordan Breen is the only MMA Journo I really listen to. I do not agree with everything he says, but he always applies logic to his opinions. 

 

Despite being indifferent to Iole, I always viewed him as a bit of an non entity. Someone who just reports, but rarely offers a critical opinion. 

[lambyUK]

I thought you liked Luke Thomas Wand? I think he's great, up his own are yes, but very well spoken and extremely knowledgeable.

 

He's also not over exposed since he's never at the press conferences etc.

[Egg Shen]

i have no problem with what Thomas says, he knows his shit and usually talks sense but that doesn't make him any less up his own arse