I Don't Get It

[Vamp]

He can't do a proper stf, narf.

[Undefeated Steak]

If you're ever in doubt as to why Cena's the number one guy then you only need to listen to him on Austin's podcast. The man gets it. There's a reason why the guys who care more about crisp STF's than the bigger picture are wrestling for Kayfabe Killers Federation in front of 200 and John Cena's a multi millionaire and globally recognised name.

[herbie747]

I would go for Hogan also, for me he was a guy who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Vince McMahon force fed the fans Hulkamania and it took off big time as we all know but I truly believe that he could have done the same thing with somebody else if necessary. Hogan came along he was big, young, handsome at a time when the business still had a lot of old timers knocking around, especially in the WWE. Neither Vince nor Hogan knew the impact, Hulkamania would have and like I say at that time the business was changing, old timers were moving off and a new breed of young fresh talent came along and Hogan just happened to be the bigger more impressive looking, he certainly wasn't the best wrestler and Vince took a gamble and it paid off. Fair enough it was Hogan who got the whole thing over but it wasn't really the hard to do when it was being force fed to fans and they had no real alternative face to get behind.

 

Same thing with John Cena, he is the most over-rated wrestler ever. He's a flash in the pan and the fans are now getting bored of him and want someone new to get behind and they have with Daniel Bryan. If John Cena were to leave WWE tomorrow, he wouldn't be missed, certainly not by me. His wrestling skills are embarrassing, he has no depth to his character and is being over shadowed by better wrestlers that WWE have brought in over the past few years. WWE have offered the fans a better alternative to John Cena by bringing in the likes of CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and the Shield, for years prior the these wrestlers coming in to WWE the fans were offered no real alternative and now that there's plenty of wrestlers to get behind....hopefully with this insurgence of actual talented wrestlers, Cena can now slowly fade away and over time from the minds and memories of wrestling fans over the age of 16.

 

One of the most factually inaccurate posts I've ever read.

[C-Rock]

For the record im not in the business, i have refereed on various shows for about 6years and i trained for 3 years. My opinions are my opinions, just like everybody else on here has an opinion, just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't make what i say wrong.

 

my opinions on John Cena i stand by, Im not the only one who is bored of him, he is an awful wrestler. I don't dislike Cena as a person from what i can tell he seems like a great guy who does a great deal for charities and he obviously has a great deal of passion for for what he does and wrestling in general which i greatly admire but that doesn't take away from my opinion that he is over-rated. I prefer champions and main eventers to be guys like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk who are the total package, i prefer wrestlers from yester-year like Steamboat, Windham, Arn Anderson, Flair, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and others who could wrestle terrific matches with anybody. Cena doesn't hold a candle to them when it comes to wrestling ability. Im not 12, i don't get John Cena but then again im sure WWE isn't trying to appeal to a 27 year old. Bray Wyatt is being wasted in his current fued with Cena. Cena hasn't got the tools to really bring out Wyatts wrestling strengths, when you work with Cena you have to dumb down your wrestling skills in order to be at Cenas level, as a champion you should be able to bring out the best in your opponent and put on a classic match. Unless hes working with a very talent heel like CM Punk who could get a decent match out of broom then Cena's matches are the same formulated matches. Im old enough to remember the great wrestlers of yester-year and when faced with a guy like Cena, i just don't get what is so special. He makes WWE millions but he can't be that great ratings and PPV buys and attendances have been on the decline for quite some time, i might be wrong but even when he is champ and in the main event.

[Undefeated Steak]

I don't get how anybody can say that John Cena is an awful wrestler. Since 2006 he's had an abundance of incredible matches and they're not all down to his opponents. I'm not calling him Ricky Steamboat but on a scale of shit to great, he's nearer the great end of the measuring stick in my eyes.

[Carbomb]

when you work with Cena you have to dumb down your wrestling skills in order to be at Cenas level

 

Yeah, we really missed out on Khali hitting his amazing Shooting Star Press there.

[darkship]

That point where he held the title for a year and was getting good matches out of Umaga, Khali and Lashley was almost miraculous. You can't say a guy can't wrestle when he gets good matches out of wank like that.

 

As for guys I don't get: I imagine I'm in the majority here on UKFF but I can't see what Dolph Ziggler brings to the table that screams 'main eventer', either as a face or a heel. As a heel, he's just a stereotypical indie cool heel for me; "I'm arrogant but I do flipz!". As a face, he's got even less going on. There's nothing at all that would make me think "Dolph Ziggler's on this show? Better get a ticket!".

[herbie747]

just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't make what i say wrong.

 

Saying Hogan was "in the right place at the right time" for Hulkamania to take off is factually incorrect though - it's not subjective or a matter of opinion open for debate. He was a huge star before his 1984 WWF title run; in the AWA, in Japan, Memphis, a previous WWF run, and from being in a Rocky movie. Your post implies Vince just found him in a bar playing bass in a band one night and the following week he beat the Sheik for the title.

 

You can say you don't like him or his ability - that's opinion. But denying his success prior to his main WWF run, when he clearly had success, is factually incorrect.

 

And calling Cena a "flash in the pan" is incorrect too. He's been headlining for almost 10 years now, is the only noticeable TV ratings mover (i.e. his TV segments actually rate higher than others), sells more tickets with his name on the bill than anyone else, and sells more merchandise than anyone else by a mile. Unless you've completely redefined what 'flash in the pan' means, you're factually incorrect here too.

[Surf Digby]

I prefer champions and main eventers to be guys like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk who are the total package,

Both known for their main eventer, poster boy physiques.

[King Pitcos]

If we're allowed to have Ziggler, then I'm having Shelton Benjamin. Total case of Emperor's New Springboards.

 

Where did the "Cena can't wrestle" stuff come from? Did it exist pre-WWE title run?

Yes. In 2003, it was the done thing to hate Undertaker for refusing to put young talent like Cena over. But by the time JC won the title, "Cena can't wrestle" was the thing. This was during my willywankwank days, and I remember chanting it at him at the Smackdown tapings a couple of weeks after he beat JBL. So that sentiment must have started during that 2004 midcard megapush. I'm not sure how much traction it had until the following WrestleMania season, when Triple H and then Edge were doing "lol ur not a good wrestler, lol u appeal to kids" type promos at him. His 2007 matches with Umaga, Khali and Lashley knocked some sense into me, and I assume most of the detractors. It's only the full cretins like C-Rock that are still beating the "Cena can't wrestle" drum in 2014.

[Carbomb]

That point where he held the title for a year and was getting good matches out of Umaga, Khali and Lashley was almost miraculous. You can't say a guy can't wrestle when he gets good matches out of wank like that.

 

Whoa there - Umaga was good! He easily held up his side of the feud with Cena. And he wasn't bad when he was throwing Hardy around either.

 

Saying Hogan was "in the right place at the right time" for Hulkamania to take off is factually incorrect though

 

In fairness, one could argue Hogan was in the right place at the right time, because he was the right man to be in that place at that time. The WWF needed him - Piper couldn't have led the campaign as a face, Macho hadn't quite come along yet, and most of the biggest stars were in wCw.

 

If we're allowed to have Ziggler, then I'm having Shelton Benjamin. Total case of Emperor's New Springboards.

 

Not "Emperor's New Clotheslines"?

 

Where did the "Cena can't wrestle" stuff come from? Did it exist pre-WWE title run?

Yes. In 2003, it was the done thing to hate Undertaker for refusing to put young talent like Cena over. But by the time JC won the title, "Cena can't wrestle" was the thing. This was during my willywankwank days, and I remember chanting it at him at the Smackdown tapings before Backlash that year. So it must have started during that 2004 midcard megapush. I'm not sure how much traction it had until the following WrestleMania season, when Triple H and then Edge were doing "lol ur not a good wrestler, lol u appeal to kids" type promos at him. His 2007 matches with Umaga, Khali and Lashley knocked some sense into me, and I assume most of the detractors. It's only the full cretins like C-Rock that are still beating the "Cena can't wrestle" drum in 2014.

 

In fairness, the Undertaker feud seemed a bit too early for Cena to go over yet. He was clearly good, but I just couldn't buy him going over Taker.

 

Also, personally, I've never thought Cena couldn't wrestle. My main issue with him has almost always been character and the way he's been booked - it has been bad enough at points where I've just not wanted to watch. I've only ever had a couple of small issues with his actual wrestling - the way he does his comebacks and the way he sometimes hits the FU. But it's not enough in itself for me to say he's a shit wrestler; almost every top name has something they hit slightly dodgily. I personally never liked Hogan's or Rock's punches, Taker's flying clothesline or Triple H's flying knee. Also didn't think much of Punk's flying elbow. Didn't stop any of them being amongst the best.

 

Cena's one of the best. His match with Khali really is the litmus for that sort of thing. And whilst it got mixed reactions, I really did love his match with HBK at WM23.

[King Pitcos]

Right place, right time, right man.

[herbie747]

Saying Hogan was "in the right place at the right time" for Hulkamania to take off is factually incorrect though

 

In fairness, one could argue Hogan was in the right place at the right time, because he was the right man to be in that place at that time. The WWF needed him - Piper couldn't have led the campaign as a face, Macho hadn't quite come along yet, and most of the biggest stars were in wCw.

 

Yeah, but "right place at the right time" implies he just fell into that position by sheer luck - like Gareth A Davies. Hogan had all the tools to make it happen; and I don't believe anyone else could have done what he did at that time.

 

 

Right place, right time, right man.

 

Exactly.

[RIDDUM_N_STYLE]

just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't make what i say wrong.

 

Saying Hogan was "in the right place at the right time" for Hulkamania to take off is factually incorrect though - it's not subjective or a matter of opinion open for debate. He was a huge star before his 1984 WWF title run; in the AWA, in Japan, Memphis, a previous WWF run, and from being in a Rocky movie. Your post implies Vince just found him in a bar playing bass in a band one night and the following week he beat the Sheik for the title.

 

You can say you don't like him or his ability - that's opinion. But denying his success prior to his main WWF run, when he clearly had success, is factually incorrect.

 

And calling Cena a "flash in the pan" is incorrect too. He's been headlining for almost 10 years now, is the only noticeable TV ratings mover (i.e. his TV segments actually rate higher than others), sells more tickets with his name on the bill than anyone else, and sells more merchandise than anyone else by a mile. Unless you've completely redefined what 'flash in the pan' means, you're factually incorrect here too.

 

I was just about to mention that about Hogan as well but you beat me to the punch Herbie, some of his matches outside of WWE and WCW were something to behold. My memory is a little hazy but did Hulk ever use his Axe Bomber clothesline as a finish outside of Japan?

[The Dart]

Bray Wyatt is being wasted in his current fued with Cena.

 

Classic.

 

 

Anyway, Rowdy Roddy Piper popped into my head straight away. He did commentary and a run in on the first show I ever saw (Mania 7) and I couldn't stand him, and have never liked him since. I've watched older stuff with him and not liked any of it. I didn't like anything he did in that 2003 comeback he had. I haven't seen much of his WCW stuff, but haven't liked any. I can't stand his promos, I can't think of a single match of his that I really liked, he looks ridiculous, and when he does interviews he seems to just make stuff up to sound like a big man, when the facts would probably do. I am loving JR, Austin, Jericho etc podcasts, but no matter who the guest is, there's no chance I will listen to his one, and to go and see him talk about himself for an hour or two...no way.

 

Having said that I did meet him a couple of years ago and he seemed nice!