Goldberg's streak

[Tim Healys Chutney Spoon]

Love to see Goldberg in Sons of Anarchy...

[digforvictory]

I thought Bret has said that although the Goldberg kick ended his career he holds no grudge against him and likes him. I'm sure that's the case.

[Vamp]

I've never really liked that ring post figure four. It looks kinda awkward.

[Arch Stanton]

I thought Bret has said that although the Goldberg kick ended his career he holds no grudge against him and likes him. I'm sure that's the case.

His line was something along the lines of 'he was the nicest guy in the world outside the ring, but as a worker he was just careless and dangerous'. I'm paraphrasing, but that was Bret's take on it. He may have said he held no grudge, but he actively pointed the finger at Goldberg for ending his career for a long, long time. Even if that was the truth of the situation, I thought it was unfair to say those things so publicly, given that it was just an accident/botch with no malicious intent.

[wandshogun09]

In one of Bret's RF shoot interviews (I forget which one), this came up. Bret didn't have a bad word to say about Goldberg from what I remember until Feinstein told him Goldberg made some comment about taking no responsibility for Bret's injury. Then Bret started with the 'he was reckless' stuff. I think that's how it went. I haven't seen the interview since the TWC days though.

 

Bret said Goldberg had previously hurt Haku as well, dropping him on his head or something. And according to Bret, Goldberg immediately tried to say it was Haku who cocked up and that it wasn't his fault.

 

Fuck knows. But it seemed to me like, in that interview at least, Bret seemed to view it as purely an unfortunate accident until Feinstein started shit-stirring.

[Vamp]

Clearly bullshit, you can't hurt Haku by dropping him on his head...

[Forrest]

I actually wanted to raise this in the questions thread:

 

Was it the concussion that ended Bret's career? Or was it the stroke? I guess what I'm saying is was the reason Bret never wrestled again because of the concussion or was it because he took time off to recover, then got chopped, only to then find on his return that WWF was the only company left and just choosing not to wrestle again? For example, if WCW was still around in 2002 or another company and offered him a contract before he had the stroke, would Hart have been able to work a half-decent match, based on his condition?

[PowerButchi]

I don't know if there's televised stuff missing from that YouTube comp, but if so it's pretty amazing that the entire streak consisted of 70 minutes of TV wrestling.

 

There's a load missing. From match one to match two in that video they cut 4 months worth.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

For example, if WCW was still around in 2002 or another company and offered him a contract before he had the stroke, would Hart have been able to work a half-decent match, based on his condition?

If he never had the concussions he wouldn't have had the stroke. So it was the concussions that ended his career because his brain was so scrambled he couldn't take any bumps on it. He was in the WWA and they wanted him to wrestle for them and he didn't. He was offered to return to the WWF before his stroke. Bret fell off his bike and had a stroke, so that tells you the damage he had to his head. I cant imagine him wrestling The Undertaker or something in 2002. He would have likely had the stroke in the ring. He couldn't take blows to the head in 2000, 2001 or 2002 because of severe head aches and loss of memory and all sorts. He was on the shelf for 2 years and then he had a stroke.

 

I maintain he probably would have returned eventually had he not had his stroke. Would have obviously been a stupid move and he might have ended up in a terrible state, but with Michaels returning in 2002, WWE would have thrown the money at him.

[air_raid]

I came to make a Goldberg reply, but there's probably no topic in pro wrestling history that is more emotive for me than Bret Hart, so let's crack on with him first and maybe I'll get to Bill tomorrow.

 

Bret ended his own career to be fair, though. He retired due to the effects of multiple concussions. He was in a position to not wrestle all those matches where he took dust bins and chairshots following the Starrcade match. If Bret had taken the correct amount of time off, he'd have returned to action in about a month. And it wasn't "old wrestlers mentality" like people use as an excuse today. The big stars never wrestled a shit load of the trot if they were hurt in the 90s. If Hogan or Goldberg got hurt, they weren't working Jerry Flynn the following Monday.

 

Plus, he didn't know how badly he was hurt.

 

After the match he thought he'd see how he felt the day after, like a fool. By the Tuesday Thunder tapings he thought he might have been concussed and told Russo as such, but Russo still wanted him to work, so he did. He tottered along, the effect of his concussion addling his brain so he didn't think with enough clarity to get himself checked out. He got his head bounced around more in a hardcore match with Funk, then he started filling in for Nash on the house shows because - ironically - Nash was out with concussion. So every night he's getting chokeslammed and powerbombed by Sid. On January 10th he worked his last match with the recovered Nash on Nitro from Buffalo where Sid interferes and chokeslams and powerbombs Bret again, and he saw "millions of tiny silver dots everywhere, a galaxy of stars." Then by the time he sat down in the locker room, he'd forgotten what he'd actually done in the ring. He worked a non-wrestling angle on the Thunder taping the day after, and sorted his doctor's appointment for the Thursday. Of course the doctor told him in layman's terms that he was fucked, and he didn't even want Bret listening to loud music or watching TV, never mind wrestling. "It could take up to a year before we can even determine how bad this is." Post-concussion syndrome, what a bitch.

 

Incidentally in terms of the schedules the stars were required to work, and Bret in the winter of '99 :

 

I kept working as many house shows as I could because I wanted to whittle down the number of days I was required to work in order to have more time off in the summer.

 

Bret loves to blame the kick, which was admittedly horrific, for ending his career, but a couple of minutes before that, he went for his figure four around the ring post and smacked the back of his head really hard on the concrete floor.

 

He acknowledges as much both on his WWE produced DVD and in his book.

 

I always thought Bret was unnecessarily harsh to Goldberg about the whole thing, saying that he didn't care about anyone's safety and that he was dangerous. Those kind of comments made him sound so bitter that you actually lost sympathy for him.

 

He makes no bones about Goldberg being high impact and saying wrestling him was "not fun" but I don't think he means it sound that Bill didn't care, just that he was inexperienced and not been taught enough. He makes a point in his book to mention that when Goldberg caught him with an elbow strike that he knew was far too hard, he says "Sorry brother" in Bret's ear.

 

His line was something along the lines of 'he was the nicest guy in the world outside the ring, but as a worker he was just careless and dangerous'. I'm paraphrasing, but that was Bret's take on it. He may have said he held no grudge, but he actively pointed the finger at Goldberg for ending his career for a long, long time. Even if that was the truth of the situation, I thought it was unfair to say those things so publicly, given that it was just an accident/botch with no malicious intent.

 

There was a line in his DVD about "it's a shame that a nice a guy as Bill Goldberg ended up hurting me", yeah. I don't know if there's a way he could have stated "I sustained the concussion that lead to the end of my career in a match with Goldberg" without it sounding like pointing the finger, since, as you say, it's the truth of the situation, given that people were sticking microphones in his face and asking him directly about the match, and his finish. It's been a long time since I saw the RF shoot, but I thought he was more than fair on his WWE DVD. In his book after describing the Starrcade match itself, the rematch the next night and the angle they shot, he only ever talks about his ongoing trouble with trying to clear his head and the symptoms that were developing. There's no blame or malice, and the only emotion he mentions about Goldberg in the aftermath is feeling "terrible" for him when he saw the massive gash Bill got in his arm punching through the car windscreen, that put him out of action for a few weeks.

 

Incidentally, if like me you're a sucker for "who are/were the nice people in wrestling" stories, Bret makes a point of mentioning Duggan, Sting, Brian Knobbs and Liz as supporting him immediately after he realized he was done, and how when he did the European tour to come and say "hello, I'll miss you" (which I went to at the NEC) The Wall insisted on carrying his bags for him. He actually mentioned Liz a couple of pages earlier too in that right after his match with Luger at Havoc when he thinks everything's going to shit and that he really doesn't like the idea of the forthcoming heel turn, and she gives him a hug, tells him "things will get better," and that he was always her favourite wrestler to watch. To be blunt, everyone should know the way you cheer Bret Hart up is tell him he's your favourite/the best. If Luger hadn't been in close proximity at the time, I imagine he would have tried to Excellently Sexecute her.

 

Sorry for the diversion.

[PowerButchi]

He actually mentioned Liz a couple of pages earlier too in that right after his match with Luger at Havoc when he thinks everything's going to shit and that he really doesn't like the idea of the forthcoming heel turn, and she gives him a hug, tells him "things will get better," and that he was always her favourite wrestler to watch.

 

Did she burst into tears while saying it as well, like the person does in every other Bret Hart "He came up to me and said I was the best ever" self-important story?

[air_raid]

Did she burst into tears while saying it as well, like the person does in every other Bret Hart "He came up to me and said I was the best ever" self-important story?

 

Have you read Bret's book, Butch? There's a lot of back-slapping mentioned, but not much tears. Post SummerSlam '92 there's a "Brother, that was the mother of all matches!" from Savage, a "Hitman, let me shake your hand!" from Flair, and a "You are the best, man. In-fucking-credible." from Shawn, but no tears.

 

Flair gives him a "My friend, you are truly a great worker" after their last match in Dortmund. No tears. Shawn blasts off on Bruce being a dick saying "If my brother was world champion and the best in the business, I think I'd quit fucking arguing with him and start listening to him!" No tears. He does mention Savage having tears in his eyes at Mania X saying "I'm proud of you brother, you deserve it!" He mentions Vince telling him he was "the hardest working wrestler in the business" after the Kid match on Raw, Joey Marella tells him "You're the best worker I've ever seen, brother, I mean it!" later that night after his match with Owen. He refers to Vince saying "Unbelievable!" to him after the Stone Cold match at Survivors '96 (audible since Vince still had his commentary headset on). Taker tells him "Helluva match, man, not a chance in hell me and Sid are ever gonna top that!" but still, no tears.

 

He mentions what he perceives to be crocodile tears from Shawn in front of Vince about how grateful he is that Bret's doing the job to him at Survivors (which Bret hasn't agreed to yet and obviously never did) and has no problems losing it back to Bret in Springfield, not really the same, I know.

 

So, while I admit Bret is akin to my Suarez in that I probably defend him beyond the point of rationality since he was my hero growing up, but someone's going to have to tell me where this "burst into tears" stuff comes from, since it's not the first time I've read it. He's not shy about stories about wrestlers telling him he's great, and it's probably wildly over-exaggerated. But he doesn't describe too many other wrestling people crying over him truly being the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be. At least, not in his book.

[PowerButchi]

I have indeed read it and own it and nearly fucking vomited reading bits like "I TOLD GLEN I WAS PROUD OF HIM AFTER OUR MATCH!" and the bit about Earl Hebner calling Bret THE BEST and having tears in his eyes while doing it. Probably tears from laughing at the dickhead behind his back. Really, it's a good book but it's also the real life version of Alan Partridge's Bouncing Back. Only just replace "Needless to say, I had the last laugh" to "He shook my hand and called me the greatest of all time."

 

The best of it is that Super Bruce used to piss in his face.

[Astro Hollywood]

His anger at the Sunny Days comment is hilarious in hindsight, when the book casually relates how he spent every spare minute between matches cheating on his wife.

[wandshogun09]

His anger at the Sunny Days comment is hilarious in hindsight, when the book casually relates how he spent every spare minute between matches cheating on his wife.

 

Yeah, it kind of reminded me of that Mike Tyson documentary when he denied he raped Desiree Washington. "Yeah, I've taken advantage of women before, but I didn't take advantage of her." That's OK then.