UFC 161: 'Henderson vs Evans'

[wandshogun09]

Just a few weeks away now. UFC goes to Winnipeg, Canada for the first time with this lot...

 

 

PPV MAIN CARD (ESPN)

Dan Henderson vs Rashad Evans

Roy Nelson vs Stipe Miocic

Alexis Davis vs Rosi Sexton

Pat Barry vs Shawn Jordan

Igor Pokrajac vs Ryan Jimmo

 

FX PRELIMS (ESPN)

Jake Shields vs Tyron Woodley

Sam Stout vs James Krause

Sean Pierson vs Kenny Robertson

Edwin Figueroa vs Roland Delorme

 

FACEBOOK PRELIMS (Facebook/Youtube)

Mitch Clarke vs John Maguire

Yves Edwards vs Dustin Pague

 

Even with losing it's original main event, this still looks a belting show.

 

Hendo vs Rashad is a bit of a weird one for me. They're two of my favourite 205ers but they're both kind of in limbo. They're both coming off disappointing fights as well - Hendo looked pretty bad against Machida (although to be fair he was coming off a year plus layoff and hardly anyone ever looks good against Machida), and on the wrong side of 40 you have to wonder how long he can keep swimming with the UFC sharks at 205. Rashad looked shit against Little Nog, he did pretty much nothing the whole fight. They both need to pull something out of the bag here, especially if they expect to get back in the title hunt anytime soon.

 

I've said a couple of times I've got a bad feeling this fight will be disappointing. I'd love to be wrong about that, the last thing these two need is another lacklustre showing. Maybe they'll surprise me but the way they match up, I don't really see Hendo landing that haymaker, I think Rashad will be too fast and will prove to be the superior wrestler, and Hendo will probably tire and get taken down repeatedly. Basically I see it looking like a carbon copy of Rashad's dominant win over Rampage.

 

Who knows? Could be good. I remember when we all thought Edgar vs Maynard 2 might be shit and look how that turned out. And they do both pack quite a punch;

 

 

 

Hendo highlight

 

Rashad highlight

 

Nelson vs Miocic, as a few of us were saying earlier, doesn't really make a lot of sense considering where they both currently stand in the division. Nelson comes into the fight on the back of 3 first round KOs, Miocic got knocked out by Struve last September and hasn't fought since. Weird match-making but when you think about it, all the other names are tied up so this is clearly a case of Big Roy wanting to stay active which is no bad thing. And odd timing aside, this should be a great fight.

 

Stipe's got good boxing, he's powerful and he's got the wrestling background to possibly decide where the fight goes. He's technically a better boxer than Nelson as well. But Nelson's knocking people out for fun right now. Should be a good one.

 

Barry vs Jordan is a similar type of fight. Barry's the better striker, Jordan is a tank and packs a good amount of power. Again, should be exciting while it lasts.

 

Davis vs Sexton could be the sleeper for FOTN on this card. And for a stacked card that's high praise. The women have really delivered so far in the UFC and my hopes are high for this. Alexis Davis had an awesome fight with Sarah Kaufman last year and Rosi Sexton has been the top woman fighter in the UK for years. She's been an MMA pioneer over here and she'll also be the first British woman to fight in the Octagon. Really tough fight for her though, Davis is a BJJ blackbelt who can scrap on the feet as well. Should be exciting wherever the fight goes.

 

So the main card looks excellent, the prelims look pretty good as well.

 

Jimmo vs Pokrajac is an interesting fight, Jabouin has a very fun striking style to watch, Figueroa's usually a highlight of the prelims, the UK's John 'Gypsy Jiu-Jitsu' Maguire finally drops to 155, Kenny Robertson looked great last time out too with that inverted kneebar thingy. Shields vs Woodley could be boring as fuck, or maybe Woodley will score a quick KO like he did against Hieron.

 

I love the look of this, especially the main card. Shame Barao vs Wineland got fucked up but I still expect this event to deliver the goods.

 

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Wow, quick turnaround between numbered events, I thought the Winnipeg card was July for some reason.

 

Really think Shogun vs. Lil Nog should have been the main event for five rounds (although due to the late notice, the main event will be 3 rounds anyway). People talk about Shogun losing a step, and with all the injuries and wars he's been through, it's definitely true, but there's no doubt that he brings it every time he steps into the Octagon. The obvious highlight was against Hendo, but his fights with Vera and Gusty were fun wars too. He's always aggressive, and if nothing else I hope he sparks some aggression in Nog. I know you love him from the Pride days, Wand, but he still doesn't have a standout UFC fight on his resume. He's got a big name win in beating Rashad, but he's as much to blame for that "fight" being a boring game of pattycake as Evans was. Hopefully Nog can turn back the clock a bit and deliver the kind of performance you remember him so fondly for.

 

Evans vs. Hendo. Rashad has lost two straight, and the manner he's lost in, his heart doesn't seem to be in it anymore. I think Hendo, despite being older and surely winding down soon, has more drive to still fight at that top level. He just got Machida'ed, the same way most fighters do.

 

A bit confused at Barry vs. Jordan being a PPV fight. Barry would be the perfect headliner for the FX prelims, I'd use Shields' name while he's still relevant to sell a PPV or two- I know, people don't love Shields, but put his recognisable name against the highlight of Woodley killing Hieron and I think you have something.

 

Good card altogether. It's a bit weird having two guys coming off losses in a PPV main event, but it's the best they could do in the circumstances. Evans and Hendo are more legit main event players than Diaz, Sonnen or Bigfoot anyway, so I think I'll avoid bitching about this one.

[wandshogun09]

I hope he sparks some aggression in Nog. I know you love him from the Pride days, Wand, but he still doesn't have a standout UFC fight on his resume.

 

Blame Joe Silva. Nog came into the UFC in 2009 with a decent amount of hype. He'd been stringing together wins in various promotions and looked good doing it, including knocking out Vladdy in Affliction. His UFC arrival was long awaited, I remember Joe Rogan verbally molesting him during his walk-in, and he got in there with Luiz Cane (who as unbeaten at the time and thought a top prospect), and fucking destroyed him in about a minute. He couldn't have looked better.

 

After that, Joe Silva then booked Nog against every fucking wrestler in the division. Consecutively. For 2+ years. Now, I know in MMA you have to deal with wrestlers, I'm not doing a Nick Diaz here. But come on, he's faced nothing but wrestlers one after another since 2010. From Ryan Bader to Phil Davis to Tito Ortiz to Rashad Evans. To be fair, they did try to book Nog vs Forrest for UFC 114 originally, Forrest pulled out and Nog got Jason Brilz.

 

Imagine if they'd have booked Dan Hardy against Koscheck, Fitch, Ellenberger and Maia in a row? Or if they put Wandy against Sonnen, Shields and Okami and on the trot? I'm not sure I recall another fighter being basically fed the same fighter with a different face that many times in a row like Nog was.

 

And to his credit he's found a way to deal with that. Where a couple of years ago Bader and Davis were able to shut him down and do the bare minimum to win on points, Nog blasted through Tito and totally shut Rashad down with his jab and takedown defence. His takedown defence has come on big time the last 3 years or so.

 

I've been saying for ages - give Nog a Shogun, Griffin, Bonnar, Franklin type opponent and you'll see a better fight out of him. He was thowing flying knees and all sorts of shit in Brazil shortly before he signed with the UFC. When he doesn't have to worry about defending takedowns he's a different fighter. If the cautious Nog that fought Rashad turns up against Shogun, he will eat Shogun's knuckles. And I'll eat my words.

 

He's got a big name win in beating Rashad, but he's as much to blame for that "fight" being a boring game of pattycake as Evans was. Hopefully Nog can turn back the clock a bit and deliver the kind of performance you remember him so fondly for.

 

I disagree. It takes two to tango and all that but I put more blame on Rashad for that fight being cack. Rashad had the blueprint to beat Nog, it was laid out there for all to see, as I said Bader and Davis did it. And being a wrestler, you'd think Rashad would take advantage of that. Or at least try.

 

If you were Nog and you were fighting Rashad what would your gameplan be? I don't mean that to sound as dickheaded as it probably does, just curious. Yeah Nog's a BJJ guy but he wasn't going be able to take Rashad down, and he doesn't want to be put on his back by someone with the top control of Rashad, especially with how judges rarely ever score rounds for the guy on bottom. He had an advantage in boxing so decided to try to keep it standing. Could Nog have been more aggressive? Yeah. They both could, but aggression would probably have put him on his back in a fight he was winning.

 

You can't blame him for sticking with what was working. Even if it wasn't pretty. Rashad had no urgency at all about him, and he must've known he was losing. That's the difference. Nog was peppering him with punches, those kicks Rogan hated and stuffing every takedown attempt. Rashad did...fuck all, apart from gently tap Nog's lead hand for 15 minutes.

 

I think Hendo, despite being older and surely winding down soon, has more drive to still fight at that top level. He just got Machida'ed, the same way most fighters do.

 

He has the drive but I don't know. At some point he's going to look old, he did against Machida but that could have been ring rust, we'll see.

 

But remember, Rampage was able to outwrestle and control Hendo, Shogun dominanted him on the ground late in their fight, the smaller Jake Shields took him down at will. Rashad has the tools to do it as well. If Rashad was able to outwrestle Phil Davis over 5 rounds, he can outwrestle Hendo over 3. Hendo can always land a big punch but I don't see Rashad hanging about to eat one.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Just because someone is a wrestler doesn't mean it'll be a boring, stifling fight though. Guys like Bader and Davis have had better, more entertaining fights than the ones against Nog. I agree it has been a bit of overkill by Joe Silva to give him so many though. I think some fighters freeze up too much when their opponent has a strong wrestling base. Sometimes you need to throw caution to the wind and say "fuck it", like Aldo did by kneeing Mendes into oblivion. BTW, that would be my gameplan against Rashad, use a variety of strikes including uppercuts and knees to make him worried about shooting. I get the point about sticking to what works- if it ain't broke don't fix it, but i like my fighters to have some killer instinct. That's why I like guys like Shogun so much, they're not cautious or worried about what the opponent can do, they're just looking to take them out of the fight.

 

About Rashad vs. Hendo... has Rashad used much wrestling at all in his last couple? I recall both Jones and Nog being jab clinics with maybe 1 or 2 takedown attempts. I worry that besides the seeming lack of motivation, he's shifted away from wrestling a bit and become more centred around striking, which hasn't been as successful. He did wrestle fairly well against Davis and Rampage, but besides that he's been a bit shaky of late. Perhaps it's a strategy thing as well.

[wandshogun09]

I agree, there's plenty of wrestlers who aren't boring. I wasn't having a pop at wrestlers, just find it odd why Joe Silva had Nog fighting exclusively against them for ages.

 

I like Phil Davis but he is pretty fucking boring. And Bader is the definition of dull. Watch Bader vs Marrero or Davis vs Vinny again. They were worse than either vs Nog.

 

This might be blasphemy but I'll throw it out there - Anderson Silva. Greatest MMA fighter of all time. Spectacular highlight reel of finishes. But look at him against dangerous submission artists. Maia and Leites were his worst fights ever. Lutter gave him hell before he ran out of steam. I genuinely think his submission losses to Takase and Chonan still haunt him a bit, and I think that's what made him gunshy vs Maia and Leites.

 

If Joe Silva booked him against say Jacare, Maia, Weidman and Roger Gracie, consecutively over 2 years - Abu Dhabi Anderson could show up and we have four UFC 112 dance fests again.

 

Basically, everyone has a style they don't gel with.

[jimufctna24]

This might be blasphemy but I'll throw it out there - Anderson Silva. Greatest MMA fighter of all time. Spectacular highlight reel of finishes. But look at him against dangerous submission artists. Maia and Leites were his worst fights ever. Lutter gave him hell before he ran out of steam. I genuinely think his submission losses to Takase and Chonan still haunt him a bit, and I think that's what made him gunshy vs Maia and Leites.

 

If Joe Silva booked him against say Jacare, Maia, Weidman and Roger Gracie, consecutively over 2 years - Abu Dhabi Anderson could show up and we have four UFC 112 dance fests again.

 

Basically, everyone has a style they don't gel with.

Whilst I agree with your general point, I may not agree with your example despite it making perfect sense in theory.

 

Anderson admitted he carried Leites as they were friends and he did not want to harm him, and the Maia fight he made crap on purpose because he wanted to show up Maia due to a comment Maia made about him (he showed himself up more as a result)

 

Anyway, if Rashad turns up motivated and not flat, he should out-grapple Hendo and be too slick for him standing. The best or at least a decent version of Rashad is too refined to lose to Hendo, but Hendo performances are more consistent and if Rashad turns up flat Hendo may win. Its all in Rashads hands, he is the more talented fighter its just a case if he still puts the work in or is training proper.

[wandshogun09]

I've read those reasons as well but I'm not sure I buy it. They both kind of sound like excuses for poor performances to me.

 

I've never really seen anything to suggest he was super close with Leites. Anderson liked Franklin a lot but he didn't let that get in the way when he mangled Franklin's face. Twice, in front of his crying wife and in his hometown.

 

The Maia thing is odd as well. Maia's talk was very tame and he seems like one of the nicest fighters in MMA. Anderson didn't seem pissed off with Maia at all going into that fight. Didn't seem upset about Maia's "disrespect". It was only after the fight and all the backlash that Anderson suddenly claimed he was so deeply offended by Maia's comments.

 

I just don't believe Anderson would deliberately carry an opponent or purposely try to make a fight shit. Especially if you recall how disgusted he was with his previous performance against Cote. So disgusted he reportedly went backstage after the fight and sparred another two rounds in frustration.

[Dead Mike]

The Maia fight was an very odd one. My perception of it was that Maia didn't want to engage & get countered and Anderson obviously didn't want to go to ground with Maia leading to a stalemate. Silva tried taunting Maia into engaging & he wouldn't. Silva got a lot of shit over that fight but he could've sat in his corner & done nothing, if the challenger doesn

[jimufctna24]

The Maia thing is odd as well. Maia's talk was very tame and he seems like one of the nicest fighters in MMA. Anderson didn't seem pissed off with Maia at all going into that fight. Didn't seem upset about Maia's "disrespect". It was only after the fight and all the backlash that Anderson suddenly claimed he was so deeply offended by Maia's comments.

He did start shouting stuff like "come rich boy" at Maia whilst in the cage so I think it was out there on the night that Anderson was pissed off with Maia. Anderson had no beef with Franklin but it is not like they were best buds and they came from different worlds.

 

With Leites I am going to speculate Anderson felt bad about harming him, maybe he was also friends with people close to Leites, with them being from the same country and profession they are bound to have mutral friends

[Herne's Son]

If Rashad puts in another shitty performance and loses can anyone see him getting cut? honestly I wouldn't mind at all if he did, he was great back when he first won TUF but he's been boirng as hell for a while now.

[jimufctna24]

If Rashad puts in another shitty performance and loses can anyone see him getting cut? honestly I wouldn't mind at all if he did, he was great back when he first won TUF but he's been boirng as hell for a while now.

Nah, he is one of Dana's boys along with Florian, Liddel and Forrest.

 

They are all taken care of for life bar something massive, he will always have a spot of UFC tonight and other shows like that.

[wandshogun09]

I don't know Jim. I've always got the impression Dana doesn't like Rashad much.

 

Right from the start on TUF 2, even before anyone fought, Dana singled Rashad out as a weak link during the evaluations. Then Rashad had that awful fight on the show which Dana called "the absolute shittiest fight I've ever seen". He publicly bashed Rashad for sitting out for the title shot against Shogun (admittedly he was proven right there), as recently as this year he was saying something like "If Rashad's even mentioning the word retirement, maybe it's time to think about retiring".

 

And let's not forget Rashad killed Chuck's chin. We all know how deep Dana loves Chuck. Then he battered Forrest, another Dana favourite, and took his title. Forrest even said the UFC were hoping to do Forrest vs Chuck for the title, which would have been big around that time. Rashad ruined that by spanking them both, costing the UFC a money fight and sending both their careers on a downward spiral.

 

Dana must fucking hate him.

[jimufctna24]

You would think so, but Dana also said Rashad was in his top 5 drawing cards. Not saying he is not, but that was a claim that could be easily forgiven if it was never stated. Yeah they do have a past, but Dana will only put you on stuff like UFC tonight if he likes you it seems. Plus, Rashad got sent out to England in 2011 during UFC 138 week, he only sends people out he really likes to do P.R, such as Hughes and Liddel.

 

Plus, despite him turning down Glover, Rashad has bailed them out and took fights on short notice to appease Dana. His opponent changed several times and he ended up taking fights where he had nothing much to gain, like the unknown but dangerous Thiago Silva and Tito the second time. Add to this that Rashad is pretty well spoken and bright, Dana probably sees value in him as he also rarely upsets the apple cart like Rampage and Tito did often.

[wandshogun09]

Maybe. I could have misread it but I've always got the feeling Dana's not much of a Rashad fan. He has been a good draw though, especially with the Rampage and Jones fights, so even if Dana thought he was the biggest cunt in the world, he'd tolerate him.

[jimufctna24]

He probably was not keen on him for years for reasons you mentioned, he went into TUF 2 wanting a Heavyweight to inject into his at the time shallow class, and what did he get? A Light Heavyweight with a unpleasing style who was hardly likable. TUF 2 was a difficult season after the success of TUF 1 and before the monster that was TUF 3.

 

Dana probably only warmed to Rashad when he drew big with Forrest and Rampage. I have never grown to like Rashad, but he grew into something a million times better than he was in 2006, both as a fighter and as a draw.