Paid Members herbie747 Posted May 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 24, 2016 He only sacked off going for the throne because he was smashed at the Blackwater and he realised he didn't have an army big enough to try and have another crack at it. Fair point, but didn't he borrow money from the Iron Bank of Braavos after Blackwater and took that army North? Didn't half of that army desert him after he killed his daughter? And the rest were freezing & starving!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted May 24, 2016 Awards Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2016 I'd definitely be down for a series of Tywin Lannister's greatest letters. Anyway I've probably been spoilt by The Hollow Crown over on the BBC over the past couple of weeks, which was much, much better. The Hollow Crown was great, wasn't it? Made what could have been some pretty dense material really watchable and thrilling in a lot of places, some really good performances and battle staging. (Also I was an extra in the first episode - you can see me behind Adrian Dunbar and Anton Lesser when they're burning Joan of Arc!) It was magnificent start to finish. Couldn't get my head around Joan of Arc sounding like someone out of Coronation Street though. I can understand it - it would have been cornier furr 'er to be all talking like zis in ze Frunsh accent - especially if Margaret of Anjou (also French) was going to be playing a major role in the series, also with an English accent. I figure the accent she ended up with was a 'daughter of a farmer' thing to show Joan as different from all these nobles she's fighting against (and with). The actress was from Liverpool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoKonjic Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Why after the tree man warned Bran that he had to leave because the dead army was on the way, did they go back to pottering round in the past? Surely they should have just grabbed there shit and legged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 They had to Hodor Wylis up coz the past is written and shit. I reckon the High Sparrow chooses himself for the trial by combat and becomes the martyr that kicks the revolution off or does some Mountain whispering and tames him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Nick James Posted May 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 24, 2016 Didn't half of that army desert him after he killed his daughter? And the rest were freezing & starving!? They did, but that was after he had been to Castle Black and rode for Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Sergio Mendacious Posted May 24, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 24, 2016 I'd definitely be down for a series of Tywin Lannister's greatest letters. Anyway I've probably been spoilt by The Hollow Crown over on the BBC over the past couple of weeks, which was much, much better. Should be like the Henry Root Letters, complaining to all and sundry about standards today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Bravos are owed by kings landing and by stannis. They have to have an army somewhere that goes looking for their funds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted May 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 25, 2016 Bran's time travelling isn't sci-fi anyway. That's because instead of giving a scientific reason for it they've given absolutely none at all. As soon as your start with shit about 'time being non-linear' for Bran it strays into sci fi. If you've got a third option that is neither science fiction or unexplained nonsense I'd love to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Isn't it all unexplained nonsense and magic? Why does a dragon breathe fire? Why did Dragonglass turn a man into the first White Walker and why does it kill them? How does warging work? Explain the resurrections performed by red priests/priestesses? "Other worldly" and unexplainable shite is the point of fantasy and the polar opposite of science fiction, isn't it? Bran can send his consciousness backwards (and possibly forwards) through time, because he has "the sight" and because a thousands-year old tree/man/raven taught him how to use it. I don't need any more explaining. "A wizard did it" as they say. Edited May 25, 2016 by air_raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted May 25, 2016 Awards Moderator Share Posted May 25, 2016 Yep - if you're watching to hear any more detailed explanation than "because magic", you'll probably be disappointed! Unless the Lord of Light turns out to be real and it really was all his doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian 86 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'm not a big sci-fi fan so apologies if I've misunderstood the time travel concept but for me Bran isn't time travelling. My interpretation of time travel is when someone physically leaves their current time and exists in an alternative - like the Doctor does. Bran isn't doing that, he is having visions. He is walking around and interacting with Mr Raventree but not with the people in the visions who are in their 'real' times (Night King excepted but he is supernatural as well so 'wizard did it' rules apply). There were lingering shots of Young Ned and pre-Hodor looking at him but no recognition that they even saw him. His actions in the visions havent affected anything (yet). It was a traumatic event in the future/present which affected Hodor's past and Mr Raventree took Bran there to see it rather than cause it. Same as at the Tower of Joy, if he'd run up and stabbed Arthur Dayne then it would have been different but he didn't and we didn't see any evidence that he could, I don't think we've even had a token 'pick up a rock to show he can' type shot have we? Also if he was actual time travelling his legs wouldn't work. It's an interesting debate though. Just my interpretation. On next week, assuming Brienne makes it I'm quite looking forward to the return of the Blackfish. And Jaime and the army turning up at the Sept is either going to be amazing or an almighty anti-climax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted May 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) No, I think your interpretation is off there. Bran definitely interacted and caused it. That was the whole point of the "hold the door" thing. But yeah, as I said before I do think it avoids being time travel by him not physically having gone anywhere but it's on a fine line for me. I get what you guys are saying, but to me it is about where you personally draw the line for internal logic and suspension of disbelief. I don't think there's a right answer, but for me this kind of shit is dancing on that line pretty precariously. Edited May 25, 2016 by Chest Rockwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted May 25, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted May 25, 2016 Bran definitely interacted and caused it. That was the whole point of the "hold the door" thing. But yeah, as I said before I do think it avoids being time travel by him not physically having gone anywhere but it's on a fine line for me. Yeah, agreed. If Bran is not physically there, then how did the Whitewalker touch him while warging, and leave a mark on his arm in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) I'd never given the time travel second thought until I started reading this thread. Game Of Thrones has always had a deus ex machina at play. A sort of assumed 'gods are real' failsafe that renders all methods of rationality a moot point. To be fair you'd tend to forget it because outside Melisandre's jive talkin' so much of the show to this point has been tits, ale and muddy, sadistically grounded human quarrel. It's rarely looked like a fantastically magical piece of fantasy on television. Most of it's been large knives, fucking and people in chains. At points the sheer realism of it's desolation made it off putting for me. It really is largely an absolute blitz of human misery. Edited May 25, 2016 by Gay as FOOK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian 86 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) Bran definitely interacted and caused it. Yes, by warging into present day Hodor whilst 'visioning' in the past. It was his recklessness/fuck up at multi-tasking that caused it rather than anything he did directly to pre-Hodor. It was him trying to do both at the same time which casued the link resulting in pre-Hodor hearing the 'hold the door' stuff and going full Hodor. It's the only time we've seen him do this, none of his other visions have coincided with a concurrent attempt at warging. Begs the question of whether Hodor grew up knowing what was going to happen to him which I think would put a whole different slant on his character. I don't think there's a right answer, but for me this kind of shit is dancing on that line pretty precariously. Totally agree, and that's part of the appeal for me. Having right answers all the time gets boring. Yeah, agreed. If Bran is not physically there, then how did the Whitewalker touch him while warging, and leave a mark on his arm in real life? 'a wizard done it'. The Whitewalker is supernatural, the vision is a supernatural thing, therefore he can interact whereas the other 'real people' dont. The fact they said he could now enter the cave suggests he knew about it and what was happening so perhaps he was also 'visioning' and/or tracking Bran with more advanced powers - they showed he's been around a long time and we know he is full of magic. Without Mr Raventree to guide where Bran went perhaps he latched onto the Night King's magic instead which lead him there. Also there was no suggestion on that particular vision of it being any time other than Bran's present so don't think that counts as time travel either. This is all theorising, but that's part of the 'no right answers' fun. Also it's much more interesting that what i'm supposed to be doing at work Edit: double quote Edited May 25, 2016 by Ian 86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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