Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[King Pitcos]

The weird thing about HBK for me is that I never remembered the Teardrop Suplex - for some reason, it seemed like he'd had the superkick ever since he turned on Jannetty; I don't remember him ever using anything else at all until the reverse figure four thingy.

 

 

It was a good two or three years of singles before the superkick became his permanent finisher. It was only in the run-up to WrestleMania 11, I think, where they pushed it as part of the angle ("the same kick that has knocked the WWF champion Diesel out"). He had used it sporadically as a finisher prior to that, but mostly as a setup or mid-match move. It might have been made permanent during the tag team run with Diesel, actually. They'd do the thing where Diesel did the work and Shawn came in to do something simple and get the pin. Their breakup was from Shawn hitting Diesel with it by mistake as well.

 

The Undertaker - should've thought of him straight away. I remember them calling the dragon sleeper the "Taking Care Of Business", and the gogoplata the "Hell's Gate" (didn't hear of any other names, though; what were they?).

 

 

Devil's Triangle is the only one I can remember so it might have just been that, but I recall it feeling at one point like every commentator had their own name for it.

 

The Rock wasn't too far off, either, IIRC - float-around DDT, Rock Bottom, People's Elbow and Sharpshooter.

 

 

When was that DDT his finisher? I recall him once beating Regal on Smackdown with a DDT and being baffled by it, but I remember his floatover DDT, I just didn't know it had been a finisher. Rocky Maivia had a few, though. Shoulderbreaker was one, flying bodypress was another, and I wouldn't be surprised if the DDT was in that spell as well.

Edited January 22, 2016 by King Pitcos

[Gordon_The_Gopher]

Who was it in 2005 that was on the receiving end of Ric Flair finally hitting a move off the top rope? Carlito?

I think he pulled off a double axe handle vs HHH in their 2003 WHC match...

[Carbomb]

 

 

The weird thing about HBK for me is that I never remembered the Teardrop Suplex - for some reason, it seemed like he'd had the superkick ever since he turned on Jannetty; I don't remember him ever using anything else at all until the reverse figure four thingy.

 

It was a good two or three years of singles before the superkick became his permanent finisher. It was only in the run-up to WrestleMania 11, I think, where they pushed it as part of the angle ("the same kick that has knocked the WWF champion Diesel out"). He had used it sporadically as a finisher prior to that, but mostly as a setup or mid-match move. It might have been made permanent during the tag team run with Diesel, actually. They'd do the thing where Diesel did the work and Shawn came in to do something simple and get the pin. Their breakup was from Shawn hitting Diesel with it by mistake as well.

It's such an odd thing that I just don't remember it at all like that. I don't doubt anyone, I just don't get why I didn't notice at the time. I started watching the WWF in 1991, just before Tuesday In Texas (I think), and stopped watching regularly after Survivor Series 93 - that entire time, I had it in my head that SCM was HBK's finish, probably just from the Jannetty angle. Even weirder is that I never even heard of the Teardrop Suplex until about eight, ten years ago.

 

 

The Rock wasn't too far off, either, IIRC - float-around DDT, Rock Bottom, People's Elbow and Sharpshooter.

 

When was that DDT his finisher? I recall him once beating Regal on Smackdown with a DDT and being baffled by it, but I remember his floatover DDT, I just didn't know it had been a finisher. Rocky Maivia had a few, though. Shoulderbreaker was one, flying bodypress was another, and I wouldn't be surprised if the DDT was in that spell as well.

The DDT was briefly his finish as Rocky Maivia in the NOD, I think. You're right about the flying crossbody/bodypress too. I didn't know about the shoulderbreaker.

[EdgarTheSlouch]

Was the teardrop suplex referred to by that name at the time tho? I remember knowing about the suplex as a finish from this:

[King Pitcos]

I think it was like someone said earlier, the teardrop suplex name must have come from a sticker book or something. I don't think I ever heard it called that until years later. It was always back/side/patented suplex. I just watched a couple of clips from when he first went singles, and it seems like at first they'd just do the "this one's history" call instead of calling the move at all. The superkick itself went through so many names too. It'd be martial arts kick one week, savate kick the next, then back kick, then side kick, then crescent kick.

 

I've never thought about it before, but has any other wrestler in the big time ever taken so long to settle on a finisher? You get ones who change their finisher every few years, but he was just rotating them week by week, it seemed. The suplex was his main one, but you'd still get him beating Koko B Ware with a superkick or Jobber 12 with  piledriver. He even went through a phase where he'd set up the suplex but then do a piledriver/superkick/pieface instead, or just let go and let them fall, then pin them. It's mad that he went so long without really making his mind up and fully settling on one.

Edited January 22, 2016 by King Pitcos

[Statto]

To go off on a Shawn Michaels finisher tangent, just something that's been buzzing around my head as of late - it seems to me that since Shawn's retirement the superkick is to WWE what the Lariat is in Japan (or at least was when I watched Japanese wrestling on TWC...)

 

Lots of people do it, none of them actual have it as a designated finisher, but it's always presented as a major move, and occasionally will finish a bout off.

[DeanoTheGame]

Too many people do it now. Usos, Owens, Del Rio does a variant of it, Ziggler, Harper - surely a few others too?

[Lenin]

I always thought it was the Fisherman's duplex? Used to hook the leg a la Mr Perfect on occasion.

[Statto]

Too many people do it now. Usos, Owens, Del Rio does a variant of it, Ziggler, Harper - surely a few others too?

 

Rollins & Breeze immediately spring to mind too.

[EdgarTheSlouch]

I think it was like someone said earlier, the teardrop suplex name must have come from a sticker book or something. I don't think I ever heard it called that until years later. It was always back/side/patented suplex. I just watched a couple of clips from when he first went singles, and it seems like at first they'd just do the "this one's history" call instead of calling the move at all. The superkick itself went through so many names too. It'd be martial arts kick one week, savate kick the next, then back kick, then side kick, then crescent kick.

 

I've never thought about it before, but has any other wrestler in the big time ever taken so long to settle on a finisher? You get ones who change their finisher every few years, but he was just rotating them week by week, it seemed. The suplex was his main one, but you'd still get him beating Koko B Ware with a superkick or Jobber 12 with  piledriver. He even went through a phase where he'd set up the suplex but then do a piledriver/superkick/pieface instead, or just let go and let them fall, then pin them. It's mad that he went so long without really making his mind up and fully settling on one.

Don't know if it counts as it's technically 3 charachters, but Sean Waltman took FOREVER to settle on the X-Factor. 

[Juan Manforce]

The superkick problem isn't just in WWE, it's all of western wrestling. I would sometimes keep a tally of how many superkicks got used on local shows I would go to and it went over 20 on a 6 match card more than once. I always thought it would be a great gimmick for a comedic character, like a Santino circa 09, to claim they were 'unsuperkickable' and develop a bunch of counters to it. Of course when someone finally did hit him with one he would claim it didn't count because it was a mule kick, or a yakuza kick, any of the interchangeable terms that get used for what's essentially the same kick.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Juan Manforce

[Carbomb]

The superkick problem isn't just in WWE, it's all of western wrestling. I would sometimes keep a tally of how many superkicks got used on local shows I would go to and it went over 20 on a 6 match card more than once. I always thought it would be a great gimmick for a comedic character, like a Santino circa 09, to claim they were 'unsuperkickable' and develop a bunch of counters to it. Of course when someone finally did hit him with one he would claim it didn't count because it was a mule kick, or a yakuza kick, any of the interchangeable terms that get used for what's essentially the same kick.

I wouldn't say ALL Western wrestling. I always felt that, in ECW, it was the DDT - every fucker seemed to hit that, female valets and refs included.

 

It seems to me that a lot of wrestlers take a while to settle on finishers. Cody Rhodes only started using the CrossRhodes when he joined Legacy, I think. John Cena only started using the FU/AA just before his feud with Lesnar - I think he debuted it on Eddy Guerrero, and it was more like a DVD. Orton only really started using the RKO when he joined Evolution. Not 100%, but I think Batista only started using the sit-out bomb when he joined Evolution as well. Lashley used the Dominator before moving to the running powerslam.

[The King of Old School]

Too many people do it now. Usos, Owens, Del Rio does a variant of it, Ziggler, Harper - surely a few others too?

 

Not only that but fucking Dolph Ziggler does the whole "tuning up the band" thing in the corner now aswell.

[Pinc]

Interested to learn about Michaels' years in the finisher wilderness. I always presumed he'd used the super kick from the day of the Barbershop Window at the very latest.

 

I always felt that a big part of the reason it was easy to view the relatively slight Michaels as a physical threat to larger opponents was the fact that his big move was a nice big strike that made a good noise and didn't require any lifting on his part. I always wanted Punk to jib off his ludicrously ill-chosen GTS in favour of a big elbow smash or something for the same reason. Buying Punk as a threat to Cena or Triple H (let alone Lesnar) was a bit of a chore, but Michaels against the same opponents was always believable.

 

No wonder everyone thought Michaels was a big poof if the skinny tit spent '94 trying to back suplex cunts.

[Dirty Eddie]

Early heel Michaels used the piledriver to beat jobbers a fair amount too, though I'm not sure whether that was before of after the side-suplex variation he used.

 

I distinctly remember taking a while to buy into the Superkick as a finisher, despite all the "knocking out Diesel by mistake" stuff. It still seemed weird that a kick that he'd used for years (without knocking people out) was now his finish, knocking fools out left and right. 

 

Randy Orton should be forever thankful that he found the RKO. It's the only thing even slightly exciting about him, and that has been the case for years and years now.