Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: @Carbomb Meh. Morrissey is a shithead, but I'm away to see him on Saturday because Glamorous Glue and Sheila Take a Bow are belters. So in the same way, if Khabib is fighting, I'm throwing my moral compass onto the fire. Although, I think Khabib being "friends" with Putin isn't as shit as constantly hitting the mother of your children - partly because I'm sure if Khabib did try and give Putin the cold shoulder things wouldn't turn out so great for him and his family. Excuses, I know I know, but do you really have much of a say if Putin wants to be your friend? He's the ultimate bully. I'm sure Khabib isn't chuckling like a Bond villain as Putin orders another families slaughter. Not Putin, Ramzan Kadyrov. He's the guy that's been rounding up gays into concentration camps and executing them. He's also the guy that probably had goons beat up Fedor's daughter for Fedor slagging off his child MMA tournament which he arranged for his own son to win. From the stuff Nurmagomedov puts out, he's not just tolerating it - he regularly parties with the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 Oh right, my bad. Sociopaths party hard, I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Carbomb said: Normally I'd say yeah, but is his grappling all that either? He's a blue belt under Daniel Wanderley, which may not seem like much but Anthony Pettis was a blue belt when he submitted Benson Henderson, wasn't he? I think he was. One thing that I'd be very confident of is Punk submitting Mayweather quite easily if the fight hit the floor. Blue belt isn't black belt, but it's still streets ahead of a beginner, especially when you consider that Punk hasn't earned that belt by training with chumps in some backwater, he's been rolling with legit dudes at RoufusSports, such as Woodley, the Pettis brothers, Paul Felder and all the up & coming dudes based out there. He also trained with Rener Gracie for a while, and while he's never going to be a world class competitor the one thing that virtually everyone who trains with him says is that he's tough as Hell. He takes a beating and keeps on coming back for more. When Renzo Gracie refers to you as a "very tough guy" you can assume that you're tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, David said: He's a blue belt under Daniel Wanderley, which may not seem like much but Anthony Pettis was a blue belt when he submitted Benson Henderson, wasn't he? I think he was. One thing that I'd be very confident of is Punk submitting Mayweather quite easily if the fight hit the floor. Blue belt isn't black belt, but it's still streets ahead of a beginner, especially when you consider that Punk hasn't earned that belt by training with chumps in some backwater, he's been rolling with legit dudes at RoufusSports, such as Woodley, the Pettis brothers, Paul Felder and all the up & coming dudes based out there. He also trained with Rener Gracie for a while, and while he's never going to be a world class competitor the one thing that virtually everyone who trains with him says is that he's tough as Hell. He takes a beating and keeps on coming back for more. When Renzo Gracie refers to you as a "very tough guy" you can assume that you're tough. That definitely puts a different tint on things. I would hope that he's doing the requisite wrestling training to provide him with the skills he needs to take opponents down to apply that submission ability. I would say, however, that a Gracie saying anything doesn't really mean much, given their carny propensity for exaggeration and outright lies to promote fights and embellish their family brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ColinBollocks said: Indeed. Realistically all Punk has is a couple of years more experience than Floyd and size. Unless he's improved massively in a year and Floyd does next to no wrestling training, Punk is hardly going to be Damian Maia - a brown belt of limited ability mauled him. The Gall fight exposed how shocking his grasp of the ground game is, seeing all the rookie mistakes he made. Again, he's had a year or so to improve, but Punk is ages away from being any good as a fighter. Floyd, while a boxer, is a fighter and a great one. It's the ultimate freak show, though, right? So much so, I'm not opposed to it what so ever, even if it's unrealistic. I think you're selling Gall a little short there, Colin. He's far from a brown belt of limited ability. He went the distance with Gordon Ryan at the 2015 NAGA Worlds (and is a multiple-time NAGA champion himself), and considering that Ryan is a student of Garry Tonon and a member of the famed Danaher Death Squad and an ADCC, IBJJF and 4-time EBI champion that's no mean feat. Gall did not look out of place during that bout with Ryan. Did you see Gall's fight with Sage Northcutt? Pretty much dominated him on the ground, and that's a purple belt in BJJ who is young, fast and was going into his 10th pro fight, and 5th UFC fight. Punk is no UFC calibre fighter, but I think his showing against Gall isn't a fair reflection on how he'll look against either Mike Jackson, or even Floyd Mayweather should that fight ever happen.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 I wasn't trying to diminish Gall; his achievements speak for themselves (more diminish Punk, tbf). However, as a UFC fighter, Gall is limited (which was my point). Northcutt is a youngster with tons of potential (both marketing and fighting), but he too has shown himself to have a real weakness with wrestling (despite his belt colour), which Gall exploited because he's better in that area. Still, Gall isn't some Yoel Romero/Ben Askrin, as a beast wrestler. I've mentioned this before, but the excellent Luke Thomas does a good job breaking down frame-by-frame Punk's fight and points out just how easy he made it for Gall, because Punk basically got everything wrong and exposed what a proper amateur he is on the ground; basic things too, according to Thomas, which a wrestler of some standing should be conscious of, but Punk clearly wasn't. Realistically, Mayweather just needs to master how to stuff a takedown, because Punk isn't going to charge at you with the athleticism of prime Lesnar, or display the raw power/technique of DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chunk Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Carbomb said: the only fight worth making is the McGregor fight Nah, been there and done that. I have little to no interest in seeing McGregor flight Floyd again. Why is there any reason to believe it would turn out differently to last time? It's an excuse for both of them to make a load of cash, it doesn't hold any interest as a sporting event to me. All the McGregor schtick will be intolerably as well - given that he got beat handily last time. Punk / Floyd is a much more interesting fight for all the reasons that (mostly David) have been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 Nah, I'm down with McGregor v Mayweather. The Punk/Mayweather fight is the more compelling "who knows?" contest, but very few things beat the big fight atmosphere, for me, and nowt gets bigger than McGregor v Mayweather II in the Octagon. I doubt any of it happens, although we all typed that last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: I wasn't trying to diminish Gall; his achievements speak for themselves (more diminish Punk, tbf). However, as a UFC fighter, Gall is limited (which was my point). Northcutt is a youngster with tons of potential (both marketing and fighting), but he too has shown himself to have a real weakness with wrestling (despite his belt colour), which Gall exploited because he's better in that area. Still, Gall isn't some Yoel Romero/Ben Askrin, as a beast wrestler. I've mentioned this before, but the excellent Luke Thomas does a good job breaking down frame-by-frame Punk's fight and points out just how easy he made it for Gall, because Punk basically got everything wrong and exposed what a proper amateur he is on the ground; basic things too, according to Thomas, which a wrestler of some standing should be conscious of, but Punk clearly wasn't. Realistically, Mayweather just needs to master how to stuff a takedown, because Punk isn't going to charge at you with the athleticism of prime Lesnar, or display the raw power/technique of DC. I saw that Luke Thomas breakdown, but he was really pointing out the obvious, wasn't he? He was essentially telling us how a white belt in BJJ with no wrestling background to speak of got schooled on the ground by a NAGA Grapping world champion brown belt in BJJ. Not really much analysis needed there I don't think. He also kept banging on about how anyone with "a decent level of wrestling knowledge" should know this and that, whilst completely ignoring the fact that Punk isn't a guy who has a decent level of wrestling knowledge. If I recall correctly I got pretty irritated by Thomas analysing Punk as anything other than a novelty fighter with very limited ability taking part in his first MMA fight. To give a little bit of perspective, most fighters, including Mickey Gall, step into the cage for the very first time in front of a handful of people to take part in an amateur MMA bout. Punk went right into his first fight in the top organisation in the world and right into a professional setting. Granted, he got paid accordingly, but that doesn't mean that he's not basically an amateur MMA fighter at best. You're right, Gall isn't a Yoel Romero/Ben Askren, but he's a pretty handy fighter nonetheless, and someone who should never have been matched with Punk in the first place from a competition standpoint. I get why the UFC did it, but from a competitive standpoint it was a terrible fight to make. Punk's only real skill lies on the ground (and he was still a white belt at the time even there), and they put him in against a grappler like Gall? It was ridiculous. But, put him in there with a Mike Jackson and we'll see something a bit more competitive I reckon, or even a Floyd Mayweather. I know Floyd is a boxing champion and all-time great but at least the intrigue is there to either see how Mayweather does on the feet in a cage, or to see if Punk can get him down and actually submit him.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 Yes, but that's my point David, in the first paragraph. Punk isn't (or wasn't) a decent wrester. He's limited as fook, which is why I don't think it's as simple as him wrestlefucking Mayweather to death. If Mayweather was stepping in there with Mickey Gall, then certainly, he's getting murdered, but he's in there with a man that maybe still hasn't won a round in the gym. It's pretty ludicrous the debate we're having, though. Punk v Mayweather and who wins? Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: Yes, but that's my point David, in the first paragraph. Punk isn't (or wasn't) a decent wrester. He's limited as fook, which is why I don't think it's as simple as him wrestlefucking Mayweather to death. If Mayweather was stepping in there with Mickey Gall, then certainly, he's getting murdered, but he's in there with a man that maybe still hasn't won a round in the gym. It's pretty ludicrous the debate we're having, though. Punk v Mayweather and who wins? Christ. To be fair, I didn't mention wrestling when talking about a Punk vs Mayweather scenario, did I? I said that someone of Punk's ability when it comes to BJJ should be able to handle someone like Mayweather pretty easily on the floor if the fight goes there. Taking MMA out of the equation, if you put a white belt from any gym on the deck with a blue belt, nine times out of ten they're going to get handled. I have no real reason to believe that a 40 year old Mayweather is anything more than a 1-stripe white on the deck, and for that reason I'd heavily favour a blue belt Punk to get the job done in that situation. As someone mentioned, we'd be looking at an Art Jimmerson situation in all probability. I'd be surprised as hell if Mayweather started busting out all manner of takedown defence, and reckon he'll do a little shoulder slide, swing a few times and either connect and win, or he'll swing and Punk will grab his ass and drag him to the floor before taking a few minutes to sub him with a standard submission. I don't see the fight going any other way. Wrestling won't be a factor because neither guy really has that in their locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chunk said: Nah, been there and done that. I have little to no interest in seeing McGregor flight Floyd again. Why is there any reason to believe it would turn out differently to last time? It's an excuse for both of them to make a load of cash, it doesn't hold any interest as a sporting event to me. All the McGregor schtick will be intolerably as well - given that he got beat handily last time. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was referring specifically to the return MMA match that they supposedly agreed on. There's no reason to believe McGregor would lose that. And I'd like to see it because, distasteful as McG has gradually become, I don't like the idea of that wife-beating cock-end Mayweather riding off into the sunset with his Wayne Rooney record. I want to see someone smash him up for once. It won't happen in boxing, but it could happen in MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 Fair enough, David. The key for Punk is getting it to the floor - I don't think it's a certainty, which is my point. DC's "there are levels" quote is brilliant, as much as I'd be willing Punk to hilariously choke of Mayweather in a minute, I'm just sceptical he's the dude. If Punk can't get the takedown, he's in there with a 50-0 boxer. Again, Punk is a 0-1 MMA fighter that shouldn't be anywhere near the top two promotions, on pure ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Carbomb said: Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was referring specifically to the return MMA match that they supposedly agreed on. There's no reason to believe McGregor would lose that. And I'd like to see it because, distasteful as McG has gradually become, I don't like the idea of that wife-beating cock-end Mayweather riding off into the sunset with his Wayne Rooney record. I want to see someone smash him up for once. It won't happen in boxing, but it could happen in MMA. To be honest C-Bomb, I've said it before but I don't think any MMA fight between them will be a whitewash with McGregor smashing Mayweather. I think the boxing match between them was as close as you can get to a fix without it actually being a fix, and think that any MMA bout would be the same. The boxing match saw both guys come out of it looking decent, and I think the MMA fight would be the same, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: Fair enough, David. The key for Punk is getting it to the floor - I don't think it's a certainty, which is my point. DC's "there are levels" quote is brilliant, as much as I'd be willing Punk to hilariously choke of Mayweather in a minute, I'm just sceptical he's the dude. If Punk can't get the takedown, he's in there with a 50-0 boxer. Again, Punk is a 0-1 MMA fighter that shouldn't be anywhere near the top two promotions, on pure ability. Neither should Mayweather, realistically. He's a boxer with fuck all else really. I think we'll see Punk fight Mike Jackson next, which will be a real gauge of his skillset at that level. If he can win that fight then I reckon he could probably handle Floyd. Wouldn't give Punk a chance against Snr though, I reckon that crazy old fool would go all 'hood style and put a beating on Punk, Jackson and even McG if he got within slapping distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.