WWE Money In The Bank 2012 Discussion Thread

[KRISProdigy]

I'm quite surprised there's been such discussion of that chair bump and i'm going to hate myself for getting involved...but when he was launched Booker and co. were still more or less seated but moved at the last second. Unlikely but there may have been a lack of communication between parties there.

 

Well he's a heel teasig a babyface turn. Its a very small World remember.

First off, no he isn't. No idea where you are getting that from, since they haven't even hinted of that onscreen. Secondly, if he was a heel teasing a babyface turn, why would the fans get behind a loser who can't win matches through cheating? That's the point. Bryan lost all the time while he was preparing for a heel turn and when he turned heel he became a cheat and won all the time. Ziggler's a heel trying to win and never does. Why would he consider a life of not cheating? He'd be even worse then.

 

That would be easily explainable with his current situation as there does seem to consistently be a portion of the crowd behind him and itching for him to break away from Vickie. He's believing in himself more and more and eventually realises she is the reason for his poor record and the cheating ways are actually holding him back.

 

Also there was ths slap from Vickie, Dolph smashing the vase, the reluctance of Dolph to have his hand held up by Vickie.. it's at least being slightly teased.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Why are you making out that no one could possibly think Ziggler is mid-20s when people have already expressed they were surprised he is 32? He's older than I thought too.

Did I say that? No. He responded to something I said and I responded in kind. And Ziggler's age has already been discussed in this very thread, as well.

 

Ask Foley if he thinks throwing his body off a Cell was worth it for the notoriety/fortune that came because of it, and essentially that's where Dolph is trying to get to. No matter how "safe" you work eventually you will get injured, if you're a bump machine like a HBK/Perfect or someone like HHH/Cena/Batista/Hogan.

I'm sure when Foley is told by his doctor he has grey discs in his back and his hip pain makes him not have the ability to bend over to put his shoes on, he might have a few regrets. Also, Hogan, Batista, Cena and Triple H (and even Michaels and Perfect) are and were in different positions to Ziggler. Perfect was on like hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. He was headlining B shows on the road. He had leverage with promotions across the world. He was considered a master of his craft by fellow workers and by big players like Pat Patterson and Gorilla Monsoon. Comparing a Mr. Perfect and a Shawn Michaels (world renound stars in an era with more wrestling fans and far more money to play with) to Dolph Ziggler (a bloke who could die tomorrow and they'd replace him with someone else who can do 26 jobs on TV and wont care as long as he gets a new action figure) is mental. It isn't a fair comparison.

That would be easily explainable with his current situation as there does seem to consistently be a portion of the crowd behind him and itching for him to break away from Vickie. He's believing in himself more and more and eventually realises she is the reason for his poor record and the cheating ways are actually holding him back.

Everything is easily explained if they want to explain it. But the damage has already been done for me. He's lost so many times and he's been over shadowed and pushed to one side so many times its killed him. Even after winning Money in the Bank, Sheamus gave him a slapping and so did Jericho.

[Retro Red]

Ziggler is a mid 20's? athlete trying to carve a niche for himself, he has already proven that he is a great bumper and has unbelievable flexibility for taking these bumps so it's really not a big deal. He is simply trying to make himself stand out in a midcard where he is given no mic time and room for personality deveopment, if Foley had never thrown himself off or through a Cell he wouldnt have gotten where he did quite so fast- and what Dolph is doing is nowhere near as dangerous.

 

Dolph will turn 32 a week tomorrow and Foley has practically destroyed his body for his success. He's not exactly the model to follow.

 

Well i was just guessing, as he looks younger than that.

 

Ask Foley if he thinks throwing his body off a Cell was worth it for the notoriety/fortune that came because of it, and essentially that's where Dolph is trying to get to. No matter how "safe" you work eventually you will get injured, if you're a bump machine like a HBK/Perfect or someone like HHH/Cena/Batista/Hogan.

 

Also how do you know Dolph has destroyed his body? He looks to be in the best shape of anybody in the WWE right now.

 

I didn't say Dolph has destroyed his body, I said Foley has. With that said, Dolph's bump could have easily gone wrong and for what? One spot in a match littered with them that nobody will remember in a month's time. I like the guy, his work is great but he isn't a main eventer. All the superbumping in the world won't change that.

[patiirc]

I not seen that PPV but that Ziggler bump is awful, as it is his neck seems to catch the lip of the chair and that could have been enough to fubar things, let alone the arms of it. Stupid spot

[ShortOrderCook]

Yeah, i've interpreted reason stuff as subtle hints to an eventual turn but that may just be wishful thinking on my part, combined with him seemingly receiving a few more cheers lately. On the latest Raw though i took Vickie repeating all his stuff as her crowbarring herself in unnecessarily and stealing the spotlight, which he looked to be a little miffed at and he only got hit with the CodeBreaker when he decided to address Vickie.

[Sphinx]

Why are you making out that no one could possibly think Ziggler is mid-20s when people have already expressed they were surprised he is 32? He's older than I thought too.

Did I say that? No. He responded to something I said and I responded in kind. And Ziggler's age has already been discussed in this very thread, as well.

 

No idea where you are getting the idea he's in his mid 20s.

 

Maybe I'm exaggerating saying you're making out no one could think he's older than mid-20s, but it was almost scoffing at it when others have said they didn't realise he was as old as he is. I doubt he checked the previous pages to find the reveal of his age.

[The Cum Doctor]

Something that seems to be overlooked with that bump is that the chair could have been a matter of inches either way and it was goodbye career.

 

Every time I see the bump it gets worse and worse. I said on another forum that most of the deathmatch stuff I've seen pales in comparison to that bump as far as the most scary bump I think I've seen.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Why are you making out that no one could possibly think Ziggler is mid-20s when people have already expressed they were surprised he is 32? He's older than I thought too.

Did I say that? No. He responded to something I said and I responded in kind. And Ziggler's age has already been discussed in this very thread, as well.

 

No idea where you are getting the idea he's in his mid 20s.

 

Maybe I'm exaggerating saying you're making out no one could think he's older than mid-20s, but it was almost scoffing at it when others have said they didn't realise he was as old as he is. I doubt he checked the previous pages to find the reveal of his age.

Your ability to use the quote button is definitely something to scoff at.

[ShortOrderCook]

That would be easily explainable with his current situation as there does seem to consistently be a portion of the crowd behind him and itching for him to break away from Vickie. He's believing in himself more and more and eventually realises she is the reason for his poor record and the cheating ways are actually holding him back.

Everything is easily explained if they want to explain it. But the damage has already been done for me. He's lost so many times and he's been over shadowed and pushed to one side so many times its killed him. Even after winning Money in the Bank, Sheamus gave him a slapping and so did Jericho.

 

I know what you're saying and agree to an extent. As i mentioned in another thread, i think a MITB linked face turn and ditching of Vickie could be the only thing to salvage him and a permanent move up the card but it would need to be done in significant circumstance and not just in a throwaway manner on any old Raw or whatever. Yeah, anythings easily explainable if they want to, for sure. But that's entirely how i've interpreted his latest events and seems like quite standard story-telling.

[KRISProdigy]

I'm sure when Foley is told by his doctor he has grey discs in his back and his hip pain makes him not have the ability to bend over to put his shoes on, he might have a few regrets. Also, Hogan, Batista, Cena and Triple H (and even Michaels and Perfect) are and were in different positions to Ziggler. Perfect was on like hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. He was headlining B shows on the road. He had leverage with promotions across the world. He was considered a master of his craft by fellow workers and by big players like Pat Patterson and Gorilla Monsoon. Comparing a Mr. Perfect and a Shawn Michaels (world renound stars in an era with more wrestling fans and far more money to play with) to Dolph Ziggler (a bloke who could die tomorrow and they'd replace him with someone else who can do 26 jobs on TV and wont care as long as he gets a new action figure) is mental. It isn't a fair comparison.

 

I guess we are purely speculating on Foley's mindset but a big part of me thinks that he will look back on it as being "worth it".

 

The point is though that HBK and Perfect made their mark with their exaggerated bumping and were not always world renowned stars, Dolph is trying to get where they are by doing the same thing, this chair bump was something that made him stand out and in such a sea of blandness it's a positive asset.

[Retro Red]

Why are you making out that no one could possibly think Ziggler is mid-20s when people have already expressed they were surprised he is 32? He's older than I thought too.

Did I say that? No. He responded to something I said and I responded in kind. And Ziggler's age has already been discussed in this very thread, as well.

 

No idea where you are getting the idea he's in his mid 20s.

 

Maybe I'm exaggerating saying you're making out no one could think he's older than mid-20s, but it was almost scoffing at it when others have said they didn't realise he was as old as he is. I doubt he checked the previous pages to find the reveal of his age.

 

Well, he did back it up by bringing up the fact that Ziggler has been on the roster for 7 years, so unless you thought he debuted at 17-19 then yeah, it is a bit of a stretch to assume that he's in his mid-20s.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The point is though that HBK and Perfect made their mark with their exaggerated bumping and were not always world renowned stars, Dolph is trying to get where they are by doing the same thing, this chair bump was something that made him stand out and in such a sea of blandness it's a positive asset.

But if he's as good a worker as he supposedly is, he wouldn't need to. Michaels and Hennig used to bump to stand out in the land of the giants. The talent depth is so dead at the minute, him bumping is more of a novelty than something that sets him above Bryan and Punk. Notice Shawn Michaels in the Royal Rumble 92 and Royal Rumble 96. He was bumping all over in 1992. In 1996 he wasn't. My point is, Ziggler was penned in to win the Money in the Bank match. Why did he need to risk his career doing a head bump to the outside? He was going to win the match? Unhooking the briefcase to gain a title shot is what people are taking anyway from that PPV. Not the bump.

[Retro Red]

I'm sure when Foley is told by his doctor he has grey discs in his back and his hip pain makes him not have the ability to bend over to put his shoes on, he might have a few regrets. Also, Hogan, Batista, Cena and Triple H (and even Michaels and Perfect) are and were in different positions to Ziggler. Perfect was on like hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. He was headlining B shows on the road. He had leverage with promotions across the world. He was considered a master of his craft by fellow workers and by big players like Pat Patterson and Gorilla Monsoon. Comparing a Mr. Perfect and a Shawn Michaels (world renound stars in an era with more wrestling fans and far more money to play with) to Dolph Ziggler (a bloke who could die tomorrow and they'd replace him with someone else who can do 26 jobs on TV and wont care as long as he gets a new action figure) is mental. It isn't a fair comparison.

 

I guess we are purely speculating on Foley's mindset but a big part of me thinks that he will look back on it as being "worth it".

 

The point is though that HBK and Perfect made their mark with their exaggerated bumping and were not always world renowned stars, Dolph is trying to get where they are by doing the same thing, this chair bump was something that made him stand out and in such a sea of blandness it's a positive asset.

 

You're doing HBK a terrible disservice by saying that his exaggerated bumping was what set him apart, Perfect too for that matter. HBK's selling, offence and natural charisma and ease on the mic made him stand out and succeed in an era dominated by giants. His bumping was just part of that. Perfect had it all too, but injuries stopped him from taking that final step up to be the man. Ziggler isn't the worker either man was, he's great but he's not a world champion.

[KRISProdigy]

The point is though that HBK and Perfect made their mark with their exaggerated bumping and were not always world renowned stars, Dolph is trying to get where they are by doing the same thing, this chair bump was something that made him stand out and in such a sea of blandness it's a positive asset.

But if he's as good a worker as he supposedly is, he wouldn't need to. Michaels and Hennig used to bump to stand out in the land of the giants. The talent depth is so dead at the minute, him bumping is more of a novelty than something that sets him above Bryan and Punk. Notice Shawn Michaels in the Royal Rumble 92 and Royal Rumble 96. He was bumping all over in 1992. In 1996 he wasn't. My point is, Ziggler was penned in to win the Money in the Bank match. Why did he need to risk his career doing a head bump to the outside? He was going to win the match? Unhooking the briefcase to gain a title shot is what people are taking anyway from that PPV. Not the bump.

 

Most people who are knowledgeable about wrestling like Ziggler for the fact that he makes everything look like death, in a safe way too because as of yet he hasnt seriously injured himself. I don't get the whole he is really going to get FUBAR carrying on like this? Not really much evidence to support this, he's 32 (as i now know) and extremely flexible/durable and this is his way of getting himself up the card.. I don't get what's wrong with that? Over-bumping has become Dolph's thing and if or when he is a face it will serve him just as well if not better as it creates a lot of sympathy which is one of the reasons fans get behind him during the course of a match.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Not really much evidence to support this

Have you seen the average wrestler in his 40s and 50s? They are all a mess. Shawn Michaels, Edge, Hardy, Rey Mysterio, Bret Hart and loads of other either have no cartilage in their knees or they have had back surgery. Difference is, Michaels, Edge, Mysterio, Hardy and Hart were at a point where they don't need to work another day in their lives. Ziggler isn't and may never be at that level. CM Punk's in pain daily. He's not seen backstage without ice on his shoulders neck, back and knees. He's said he's done after this 3 years is up (2 now). He's making his money and fucking off. So doing stupid bumps is only heightening his chance of serious injury, when (and here's the most valid point) he can work and doesn't need to do it. He isn't over because he does stupid bumps anyway. He looks different and carries himself well. He doesn't need it. If you think bumping is "his thing", you really have a low opinion on him.

 

This also dispels your "everyone gets injured anyway" point. If its a given everyone is essentially on a timer, its probably best to take care of yourself more.