Raw 05/03/2012 - Pre/Post Discussion

[NEWM]

Michaels is a bit late there. He retired in 1998 and came back. He's already on retirement number 2.

 

That's a bit more like your Steve Austin example though isn't it? Barring that "last match ever" he had with that bloke in his own little company in front of twelve people, he never explicitly retired after Wrestlemania 14 did he? I still remember the optimism of his Summer 98 return to commentary where we all hoped he was coming back soon and every mystery partner/opponent for three years garnering the HBK noises in the crowd and on teletext.

 

That brings up an interesting point, actually. When was Michaels' first retirement announced? Was it that match he had in his own promotion? Because in 1998 the word was always "he'll be back in six months" or whatever, but by 2002, it seemed accepted by everyone that he was retired.

 

Yeah, he fought some nobody called Venom or Spider or Dognob or something like that, when he had that TWA on the go. It was a streetfight, and he said that was that. And you know what, I've never even thought until right now to try and find that match on Youtube or somewhere.

 

Having said all that, he was due to fight Taker at X7, so it's not like he really took that one seriously himself either.

[ColinBollocks]

I'll punch my own mother if we get another HBK v HHH match. It's holds the same draw to me as Orton v Cena. Yuck!

 

I'll punch your mother if we don't. An HHH vs HBK match in 2012 holds far more potential for fun than the 2003-2004 shitters.

Poor cow. I hope HBK stays retired if it's leading to a match with Triple H. I don't care how they dress it up, I have no desire to sit through that feud again.

[NEWM]

I'll punch my own mother if we get another HBK v HHH match. It's holds the same draw to me as Orton v Cena. Yuck!

 

I'll punch your mother if we don't. An HHH vs HBK match in 2012 holds far more potential for fun than the 2003-2004 shitters.

Poor cow. I hope HBK stays retired if it's leading to a match with Triple H. I don't care how they dress it up, I have no desire to sit through that feud again.

 

Fully agreed. The promos at the moment are world class, but it's been proven time and time again that the good matches are flukes and these two are shit with each other. Summerslam was a load of shortcuts and nostalgia, December 03 was the one surprise, and Taboo Tuesday 04 was a case of Shawn Michaels being the best at the dramatics in the world when he's selling. He could have had that match with Orlando Jordan and got something similar. I'm purposely ignoring the other clunkers (and there's a good few to pick from) because I hate them so much.

 

My unending and fanboy-like faith in Shawn Michaels still doesn't extend to the belief he can do it with his best mate. My fingers were burnt too many times on that one. As good as HHH can still be (TLC with Nash), they just don't have the chemistry. Only another Triple H/Randy Orton match would be a worse Triple H revival feud.

[JNLister]

Yeah, he fought some nobody called Venom or Spider or Dognob or something like that, when he had that TWA on the go. It was a streetfight, and he said that was that. And you know what, I've never even thought until right now to try and find that match on Youtube or somewhere.

 

It was Venom, who was apparently Paul Diamond/Kato. I've seen every account from "it was a glorified angle where Shawn never left his feet" to "Shawn was dropping elbows off ladders."

[NEWM]

Yeah, he fought some nobody called Venom or Spider or Dognob or something like that, when he had that TWA on the go. It was a streetfight, and he said that was that. And you know what, I've never even thought until right now to try and find that match on Youtube or somewhere.

 

It was Venom, who was apparently Paul Diamond/Kato. I've seen every account from "it was a glorified angle where Shawn never left his feet" to "Shawn was dropping elbows off ladders."

 

Wow, didn't realise it was Kato. I had always assumed it was in the interest of giving one of his young guys a big match. I remember reading the ladder/hardcore match rumours. This definitely not on tape anywhere then? Or is it a Tom Magee/Bret Hart situation of it just being around but virtually impossible to procure?

[wh1007]

Some thoughts on Raw:

 

I'm not exactly sure wher they're going with Zack Ryder after Raw.He looked like a complete berk after Eve kissed him.He deserves everything he gets after that reaction.

 

Laughed my ass off at this week's Big Show WrestleMania moment especially as it had only been talked about on this forum last week.

Poor Miz tho.Amybody else think they'll book him in a spot like Muhammad Hassan at WM21 where he comes out,talks for a bit and ends up getting twatted possibly by Mike Tyson.

 

John Cena was fantastic again this week.He outshone The Rock again this week in my opinion.The Rock's history lessons were annoying as fuck.Transvestite wonder woman was barely funny when he said it last year and even less funny this week..Surprised by the reaction Cena got aswell especially the Tooth Fairy chant.Agin tho,Cena was the man.

[fye]

I enjoyed Cena again, in his live promo before Rock came out I finally understood why he laughed off all the insults and jibes over the past year, because they dont offend him and he has basically been no selling them, I saw it as a weakness before but now see it as a strength he has shown as he turns the other cheek to Rock's banter. He isnt intimidated by Rocky and proved that in the face to face and The Rock's craic for the last year has been shit, it wouldnt bother anyone, its unsuccessful bullying cos the intended victim doesnt give a shit

 

Regarding the whole angle, I dont know whats worked, whats not, whats agreed and whats on the fly but thats why I watch wrestling, to be worked, to not know, to enjoy the grey amongst all the bland black and white. I am starting to enjoy the whole angle now and didnt think I would get into it

 

I dont find Rocky engaging in his promos but find myself drawn into what Cena says although the singing jabroni line was funny but I was tuned out to everything else Rock did

[King Pitcos]

I could see Miz getting involved in the Ryder/Eve storyline easily enough. Him and Eve deciding to use each other to get to the top.

[The Dart]

This definitely not on tape anywhere then?

 

Certainly is on tape somewhere. I've got it, on a best of TWA compilation, also featuring a load of D Bryan, Kendrick and Cade matches, a few Justin Credible matches too.

[NEWM]

This definitely not on tape anywhere then?

 

Certainly is on tape somewhere. I've got it, on a best of TWA compilation, also featuring a load of D Bryan, Kendrick and Cade matches, a few Justin Credible matches too.

 

Any good then? Does Michaels do a lot? That tape sounds like an interesting watch actually.

[Vice]

For me, a really interesting part of Rock/Cena is Cena not wanting to fight Dwayne Johnson, but full-on The Rock. I don't think The Rock was intentionally shit last week or anything like that, but I like the idea of Cena goading him in this way. It makes both guys look great and builds the magnitude of the match. And, for the fans too, it's an explicit re-emergence of a fully-fledged Rock... At least it's meant to be, anyway. The history promos were decent and much closer to vintage Rock (as said earlier in this thead) than a lot of the rubbish he's done recently. But even though he was way better than last week and it felt more like he was in Rock mode now, Cena still outshone him. When The Rock came to the ring, I wanted to get behind him, like, "Yes! The Rock is back." But I just couldn't. He was flat there and something was off. Cena, on the other hand, was cooler, assured and just the right amount of cocky. Playing his character as it is at the moment, it seems really natural and you can tell he's loving it, and that makes him likeable. That was a very awkward moment when Rock was trying to do a super serious bit and the crowd shat on it with the "Tooth Fairy" chant.

[tiger_rick]

Any good then? Does Michaels do a lot? That tape sounds like an interesting watch actually.

No, he wrestles in jeans, they walk around the arena trading punches and the other guy takes all the bumps. It wasn't very good.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Yeah, he fought some nobody called Venom or Spider or Dognob or something like that, when he had that TWA on the go. It was a streetfight, and he said that was that. And you know what, I've never even thought until right now to try and find that match on Youtube or somewhere.

 

It was Venom, who was apparently Paul Diamond/Kato. I've seen every account from "it was a glorified angle where Shawn never left his feet" to "Shawn was dropping elbows off ladders."

 

Yes, it was his long time friend Paul Diamond aka Kato/Max Moon.

 

Have the match on video and it was actually pretty good from what I remember. Iy certainly wasn't a glorified angle. Shawn had his back rammed into the guardrail and, I believe, did deliver an elbowdrop or something off a ladder. He certainky wasn't 'vintage HBK' but it wasn't a bad match from what I recall.

 

May have to watch it again soon.

[AndyUK]

Thought it was a good RAW. The Cena/Rock buildup was really good last night. Loved the Cena empty arena promo and Rock's history segments were really good too, particularly the first one with the Cena merch being chucked into the river. That was hillarious. I guess the problem has been that acting like that all of the time can only get you so far.

 

The HBK/HHH segment was good. The HIAC match didn't need HBK as referee but it adds another interesting dynamic to it at all. The tag match was very good too. Really starting to look forward to Mania now!

[NEWM]

Any good then? Does Michaels do a lot? That tape sounds like an interesting watch actually.

No, he wrestles in jeans, they walk around the arena trading punches and the other guy takes all the bumps. It wasn't very good.

 

Sounds more than a bit like Hogan/Sting from last year and I fucking loved that. If the guys in there are talented, they can make that shit work.