Paid Members Fox Piss Posted February 9, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 It's just very frustrating for people who want to see the best fighters face each other & the people holding belts/getting title shot to be the best in the division. As opposed to it being the people who give the best interview/have the best look/cause the most controversy. Maybe I need to change the way I look at UFC as a legit sport & accept that although the bouts are real it's no more 'legit' than WWE. Bit depressing really  The dig that it's like WWE is just wrong.  It's like the other fighting sport Boxing. In Boxing at the minute we have a undefeated British Heavyweight Champion (Fury) who give up his belt because he knew if he kept them he would have to fight a man who in many people eyes would defeat him (Price.) Look at Harrison when he got a World Title shot against Haye he wasn't even in the top 10 H.W in the division but they knew it would sell which it did.  Got to give the fans what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Is it the same though? Dana White had went on the record saying more than once that the winner of the Diaz/Condit fight would get a crack at GSP. He even used the word "100%". Â If Diaz had gotten the nod in a close fight I doubt that the UFC would be entertaining the idea of a rematch, regardless how long GSP is out of action. They would be more than happy to preserve their money fight, and I doubt that any of the people on here claiming that rematch is due because of the closeness of the fight would be saying the same thing had the result been the opposite. Â The UFC were banking on a Diaz win, that's why they had GSP in the crowd. If Diaz had won you'd have seen GSP brought in for the big-money stare-down to kick off the build up to the big money fight. Condit winning fucked all of that up, and left the UFC looking for some way to maneuver Diaz into the title picture. Â He lost the fight, and deservedly so. His gameplan was nonsense and he only has a plan A. Condit deserves the title fight with GSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted February 9, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Got to give the fans what they want. Â Thus it's like WWE, as in pleasing the masses/drawing supersedes true competition. Â It's like the other fighting sport Boxing. In Boxing at the minute we have a undefeated British Heavyweight Champion (Fury) who give up his belt because he knew if he kept them he would have to fight a man who in many people eyes would defeat him (Price.) Look at Harrison when he got a World Title shot against Haye he wasn't even in the top 10 H.W in the division but they knew it would sell which it did. Â & that's bullshit too. If you're saying 'that's how the fightgame works' then that's fine. I'll accept the reality of the situation & move on. What I wont accept is that it's a 'true sport' or legitimate as it's blatantly not. Let's just not kid ourselves that we're seeing true competition when we're all ageeing that it's engineered to please the masses first & foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The referees are independent. The judges are independent (and if Cecil Peoples can still have a job judging title fights, it's clear Dana White has no influence on the commissions in that regard). The sport is not "bent" in any meaningful way. As it stands though, the game is all about the best fighters being put in the best matches to make the most money. Diaz lost a close decision (and seriously, if you're saying that it wasn't close or that there is no reasonable degree of controversy over at least some of the judging then you're an idiot whose contribution is not needed any longer) and a lot of people think a rematch is the best way to settle the controversy. Is Ellenberger or Sanchez or Hendricks or anyone else really at the Nick Diaz level as a contender right now? In my view, it's not even all that close. Combine that with the fact that Diaz/Condit is a big money match right now and I don't see a good argument not to run with it. Â By the way, if Condit did win so convincingly, what's the problem with a rematch? He'll cream Diaz again and it'll just cement him as the top guy in the division. Â AND it's not really relevant at the moment anyway. Diaz' camp is saying the fight isn't happening. I'd really like it if he was serious about quitting. It might at least stop everyone accusing him of being a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If Diaz had gotten the nod in a close fight I doubt that the UFC would be entertaining the idea of a rematch, regardless how long GSP is out of action. They would be more than happy to preserve their money fight, and I doubt that any of the people on here claiming that rematch is due because of the closeness of the fight would be saying the same thing had the result been the opposite.   He lost the fight, and deservedly so. His gameplan was nonsense and he only has a plan A. Condit deserves the title fight with GSP.  I agree with all of that completely, in particular the bit in bold.  I like Diaz - think he's a fun guy to watch both in pre-fight stuff and during the actual fight. However, he lost the match and therefore shouldn't get an immediate chance to beat the same man again. He didn't lose a title and thus doesn't deserve an instant re-match.  Condit deserves a main-event title shot and the money that comes with it.  UFC are pretty much saying "yeah Condit won, but we'd rather it was Diaz, so we''ll do it again" and that is pretty much bullshit. Condit won the interim title, he now should face the real champ, not have to defend his position against a man he just beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Exactly. That's not to say that Diaz shouldn't have been back in the mix should he have won another fight though, as he certainly is still a major player in the division. Â It's a shame that it looks as though we won't be seeing him for at least six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 9, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I guess the UFC will just change up their plans until they get the fight they want, pretty much like professional wrestling really. The thing is, fight promotion does kind of work like pro wrestling. Always has, always will. It's about putting the fights together that make sense and that the fans wanna see (which should ideally = money). The fan reaction to this bout has been insane and it's warranted another go around, why would a promoter kill that buzz by setting up a Condit/Ellenberger fight which has no steam behind it? Â This thing fucking sells, it has to happen. Â It's just very frustrating for people who want to see the best fighters face each other & the people holding belts/getting title shot to be the best in the division. As opposed to it being the people who give the best interview/have the best look/cause the most controversy. Maybe I need to change the way I look at UFC as a legit sport & accept that although the bouts are real it's no more 'legit' than WWE. Â Bit depressing really Mike i think you're better off watching Amateur Wrestling or something. Prize Fighting works the same now as it always has, i think tightening everything up to make sure that only fights that should take place, actually take place would suck out everything that's fun about MMA/Boxing. Â Accept it an enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Like me, maybe he just wants the UFC to stick to what they said was going to happen originally? Dana White confirmed that the winner of that fight was "100%" getting the shot at GSP. Â Condit earned that title fight, and shouldn't have to take a fight that he really has nothing to gain from simply because the UFC want another chance to put together the money fight that they wanted. Diaz already had a concrete title shot and blew it by being unprofessional, and now he's lost fair & square to Carlos at the weekend. How many shots does he deserve? Â As I said earlier in the thread, you can bet your ass that there would be zero interest from the UFC to make a rematch if Diaz had won a close decision. No chance. Â Greg Jackson made some interesting quotes regarding the bout and the reaction of fans who think that Condit ran or didn't engage Diaz; Â "There's still a large contingent of people, that they just want to see these guys almost die, or the other guy almost die and come back, and sometimes fights are like that," says Greg Jackson, one of the best-known trainers of athletes in the Ultimate Fighting Championship. "But sometimes you get technical masterpieces too, and to hate a beautiful, technical fight -- you're not really a fight fan. You're just there to watch the car wrecks, you know what I mean?"Â if you just want two men to stand in front of you and (hit) each other and basically just punch each other in the face. Man, there's all these great Toughman competitions and there's a lot of lower level and stuff like that where you just toe the line. Just stand in front of you, you just one-two, and one guy goes down. If that's what you enjoy, then by all means, that's a sport; there's a legitimate sport for that. Â If you want to see people hit, do very good damage, and not get hit; and control the subtleties of the fight, like where the fight takes place; and do things on their terms and not play their opponents' games; if you do want to see that, then you can watch MMA. Because in MMA, if you land more power shots than your opponent -- regardless of whether your opponent is walking forward, backward, side-to-side or on his hands -- you're probably going to win that fight. Â Especially if you can control where and when those engagements happen. That's called dictating the pace and that's also called Octagon control, because you're controlling where in the cage that you are allowing the action to happen. So there's a lot of factors there. Â But again, the sport's not for everybody. There's still a large contingent of people, that they just want to see these guys almost die, or the other guy almost die and come back, and sometimes fights are like that. Certainly they are. Â But sometimes you get technical masterpieces too, and to hate a beautiful, technical fight -- you're not really a fight fan. You're just there to watch the car wrecks, you know what I mean? You're not watching the cars pass each other; you're just waiting for a car wreck. And there's those fans, that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurryAngel Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Probably been posted (and if so apologies) but it turns out there was one fighter who failed the drugs test according to Bloody Elbow. Â Predictably, the rumor is that it is Diaz who failed. Â *EDIT: Sorry, just seen this posted in the general thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted February 9, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Crying about the UFC promoting from a business standpoint ahead of a sports standpoint in 2012 is fucking ridiculous. I mean, if you don't like it, fair enough, watch Bellator or something, but where the fuck have you been if you're only just getting annoyed by it now? Not only have they been promoting like this for years and years, but promoting like this is the very reason they're as successful as they currently are. Â Anyway, whilst it's pretty obvious that Diaz has failed a test for weed, do you know what'd be amazing? If the test results came out and it was Condit who'd failed for something. Imagine the internet meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted February 10, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 Mike i think you're better off watching Amateur Wrestling or something. Prize Fighting works the same now as it always has, i think tightening everything up to make sure that only fights that should take place, actually take pl ace would suck out everything that's fun about MMA/Boxing.  I've watched amateur wrestling & whilst it's enjoyable it's only one discipline & it's hardly represented well on TV. The UFC get it bang on the money about 90% of the time. I honestly can't see why, as a huge fan of the sport yourself you think having the best competitors in each division face one another would 'suck the fun' out of it? Isn't that the point....to prove who's the best?  Crying about the UFC promoting from a business standpoint ahead of a sports standpoint in 2012 is fucking ridiculous. I mean, if you don't like it, fair enough, watch Bellator or something, but where the fuck have you been if you're only just getting annoyed by it now? Not only have they been promoting like this for years and years, but promoting like this is the very reason they're as successful as they currently are.  Do fuck off. I've been attending live MMA events for over 10 years, some really shitty ones too when the sport was still right on the fringes of the mainstream. If you think the UFC have only become successful because they stopped certain fighters getting title shots or pushed people who hadn't earned it you're an idiot. The masses wanted an alternative to boxing because people were fucked off with promoters ruining the sport & had grown out of pro-wrestling. The UFC were in the right place at the right time & had the money and presentation values to bring in that demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 10, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 Mike i think you're better off watching Amateur Wrestling or something. Prize Fighting works the same now as it always has, i think tightening everything up to make sure that only fights that should take place, actually take pl ace would suck out everything that's fun about MMA/Boxing.  I've watched amateur wrestling & whilst it's enjoyable it's only one discipline & it's hardly represented well on TV. The UFC get it bang on the money about 90% of the time. I honestly can't see why, as a huge fan of the sport yourself you think having the best competitors in each division face one another would 'suck the fun' out of it? Isn't that the point....to prove who's the best?    In a perfect world probably yeah, but it doesn't always work like that. Fighting's as much about settling feuds as it is about legit competition sometimes. There's only a certain amount of fights you can make, i mean in fighting guys at the top level fight 2-3 times a year tops, it's gotta be a case of picking the best fights for everyone involved.  Take for example the Lennox Lewis/Mike Tyson fight, when that took place it was the biggest fight in the history of boxing, it didn't happen because it was the two best guys in the world, it happened because it was the fight everyone wanted to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 10, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 10, 2012 we don't have to worry about it now anyways, Diaz made sure about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I am dissapointed with Diaz that he must have known that he could get busted for weed and his card would not save him. He said in a interview he could mask it with herbal stuff from tests, looks like he was wrong. Â I am not into drugs, hard or soft and have never indulged myself and my education on them despite being present when they are been taken quite a bit is sketchy at best. However, unlike steriods and HGH surely weed cant be a performance enhancer can it? Â I have heard Cociane can help darts players (I am not joking) but I cant see how weed would improve Diaz's fighting ability. I am not defending how irresponsible it was of a grown man to break a rule he was in all likelyhood aware of. Â I guess if weed is illegal still in Nevada even with a medical card you could say he was breaking the law and needs to be punished somehow, but even then you could not prove he smoked it in Nevada were it is illegal as he most probably smoked it in Stockton. Â It is a real mess this one, and it prevents the UFC newest draw from fighting for quite a while. Its a shame, but as someone said it is not a suprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny McBride Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I now have to have the argument with my friend who is a massive Chael Sonnen fan. It goes like this: Â "Nick Diaz is a thug." Â "Chael Sonnen has a criminal record. Is it OK if you're white collar criminal, but not if you're a poor kid who had every opportunity to go off the rails but didn't?" Â "Nick Diaz uses drugs." Â "Nick Diaz smokes weed. Legally. Only in extreme circumstances does any commission ever consider that to be performance enhancing. Chael Sonnen takes testosterone, making him stronger and more aggressive. It's legal, but the only reason he gets it legally is because, at best, he's been such a heavy user of gear for so long that his balls no longer work. At worst, he's a fucking cheat. And he lied to everyone about it." Â "Nick Diaz bitches and moans about losing bad decisions." Â "Before this week, Nick Diaz hasn't lost a fight in 6 years. When was he moaning? Anyway, even YOU think Cecil Peoples is awful. What has Sonnen done to earn a rematch? He didn't even get decisioned. He tapped like a girl." Â "..." Â " " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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