UFC 143: 'Diaz vs Condit' Discussion Thread

[mikey]

Diaz landed what counted in the first round and took the last one based on level striking but outgrappling Condit. I was literally open-mouthed at 49-46 to Condit.

[jimufctna24]

I had it 48-47 to Diaz.

 

I had Diaz winning rounds 1,2 and 5. Why Dana White and others gave the 5th to Condit baffles me, Diaz controlled Condit on the ground and came the closest to finishing out of either of them at any stage of the fight.

 

Condit had a good gameplan, and the verdict was far from a robbery. I hope they rematch over the summer as GSP is not back until winter time, but I doubt they will.

 

Werdum showed much improved striking under Chute Boxe old coach, and showed why Shogun is a moron for cutting ties with that coach recently.

[lambyUK]

I agree to a degree, but I just felt it was Diaz chasing Condit all over the cage and Condit tagging him due to him giving Diaz the run around. It wasn't running away as I stated, as it was his game plan. I simply didn't enjoy it.

Just because Diaz was chasing doesn't mean shit, Condit hit him with more strikes. If Condit hit with one of the spinning elbows he was throwing the fight would have gone differently in my opinion. Diaz is a guy who you don't want to stand in front of and let him hit you. So Condit was getting out of the way of that, I don't see how anyone could score it that Diaz won that fight.

 

How can you even say that? I'm not naive enough to state that I can't see how anyone could score that fight to Condit. I can easily see how he could be perceived as the winner in people's eyes, but as Mikey stated, he landed more telling shots in round 1 and round 5 definitely. It was round 2 where it could have gone either way, but I still believe Diaz struck the most shots that looked like were causing damage, regardless of how many leg kicks landed.

 

As a viewer, I simply was not entertained by Condit's game plan.

[jimufctna24]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/38293...re-GSP-returns/

 

Looks like my above statement of no rematch could be wrong.

[Swift89]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/38293...re-GSP-returns/

 

Looks like my above statement of no rematch could be wrong.

 

If they do the rematch I wouldn't be surprised if they added it to the next Fox card as the main event.

[jimufctna24]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/38293...re-GSP-returns/

 

Looks like my above statement of no rematch could be wrong.

 

If they do the rematch I wouldn't be surprised if they added it to the next Fox card as the main event.

I would fucking love that.

 

Is the next Fox card in May though? Maybe a bit soon, if it happens I think it maybe in July.

[Dirty Eddie]

I'm a Diaz fan and I love watching him fight, but I don't think they should do a rematch. That just stinks of the UFC not getting what they wanted (Diaz V GSP) and so they are giving Diaz another chance.

 

I don't think the decision was controversial at all. There were no hints of cheating, no point deductions or anything like that, Condit just fought the smarter fight, and won. Condit looked pretty much fine after 25 minuted of fighting, where as Diaz looked quite battered. It may have been a very conservative game-plan, but it worked and that's really all that matters.

 

I'd totally enjoy watching Diaz V GSP, don't get me wrong. But I don't really see why Diaz deserves another crack straight away.

[wandshogun09]

Another thing that quickly stuck out was just the sheer relentlessness of the adverts by Mike Goldberg. There was an advert for Harley Davidson, an advert for some program on the History Channel, an advert for some peanuts, there was an advert for the Japan show. Some of these took place whilst the fight was actually still taking place!

 

Haha yeah it's annoying but necessary I'm afraid given the money they rake in on advertising. Goldy was even worse on whichever PPV they were plugging the Haywire movie on. Fuck me, almost every fight they mentioned it, Buffer plugged it in his intros and they even had a live interview with Gina Carano and a preview on the PPV aswell.

 

Regarding the intro, I was so happy to hear that a new one had been created and when I saw it I thought it looked great. However, to be then hit with the normal crappy intros (where the fighters read a script, badly, stating how they are going to beat their opponent) followed by the god awful 'Face the pain' was a let down and frankly overkill. I'm hoping it's just the UFC's way of easing in the new intro to eventually get rid of old one.

 

Yeah I forgot to mention the intro. I really liked it and I couldn't agree more on Face the Pain. It fit in with the product of the early-mid 2000s but it's ran it's course for me a long time ago and I was a bit disappointed they're keeping it. Literally all they've changed is the few seconds of the gladiator is gone, I'd rather keep him and get rid of that shitty song.

 

The new intro felt more professional and had a big sports feel to it, then to go straight into the tired old screamy shit kinda defeats the point of the new intro for me.

 

I had it 48-47 to Diaz.

 

I had Diaz winning rounds 1,2 and 5. Why Dana White and others gave the 5th to Condit baffles me, Diaz controlled Condit on the ground and came the closest to finishing out of either of them at any stage of the fight.

 

Condit had a good gameplan, and the verdict was far from a robbery. I hope they rematch over the summer as GSP is not back until winter time, but I doubt they will.

 

Werdum showed much improved striking under Chute Boxe old coach, and showed why Shogun is a moron for cutting ties with that coach recently.

 

I gave Diaz the 5th but I don't think it was too much of a stretch to be honest to give Condit the round. Until the last minute when Diaz got his back and took him down, Condit was landing the better strikes, some good combos and also a very eye catching headkick. I gave it to Diaz for coming closer to finishing than Condit did but even then he really never even came that close to completing the choke.

 

Shogun a moron? Blasphemy. I know what you mean though, I wish he'd stayed at Kings MMA too. I wish Cordeiro, Wanderlei and Shogun would all join forces again like the old days. Aswell as reforming their old team they'd also have guys like Munoz and Werdum to train with regularly aswell.

[Dead Mike]

I agree to a degree, but I just felt it was Diaz chasing Condit all over the cage and Condit tagging him due to him giving Diaz the run around. It wasn't running away as I stated, as it was his game plan. I simply didn't enjoy it.

Just because Diaz was chasing doesn't mean shit, Condit hit him with more strikes. If Condit hit with one of the spinning elbows he was throwing the fight would have gone differently in my opinion. Diaz is a guy who you don't want to stand in front of and let him hit you. So Condit was getting out of the way of that, I don't see how anyone could score it that Diaz won that fight.

 

How can you even say that? I'm not naive enough to state that I can't see how anyone could score that fight to Condit. I can easily see how he could be perceived as the winner in people's eyes, but as Mikey stated, he landed more telling shots in round 1 and round 5 definitely. It was round 2 where it could have gone either way, but I still believe Diaz struck the most shots that looked like were causing damage, regardless of how many leg kicks landed.

 

As a viewer, I simply was not entertained by Condit's game plan.

 

You can't just discredit or choose to ignore the dozens of unchecked leg kicks? They hurt like hell & score points. Whether you were entertained or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference, if you just wanna see two dude standing swinging watch 'Toughman'.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah I think that comes into a lot of people's judging a fight. A lot of people only look for head shots. It was the same with Shogun vs Machida 1. Diaz landed some good punches throughout the fight but really, not enough. He'd land maybe 2 or 3 good shots a round but should a handful of punches score more heavily than 15-20 odd kicks a round?

 

One thing Condit did brilliantly in that fight was not alllow himself to be backed onto the fence. How many times have we seen Diaz back a guy up, get him on the fence and open up with his body and head shots? Penn, Daley, Cyborg etc were all overwhelmed and pretty gassed by that tactic. Condit countered that almost perfectly, he was constantly moving and when he did get backed onto the cage he created distance with push kicks. Diaz only sucessfully managed to get him in that position once and landed some good shots to the body but Condit got out of there every other time.

[Dead Mike]

One thing Condit did brilliantly in that fight was not alllow himself to be backed onto the fence. How many times have we seen Diaz back a guy up, get him on the fence and open up with his body and head shots

 

This is what impressed me the most. His spacial awareness was excellent & more importantly, Diaz didn't have an answer for it. Despite him doing the exact same thing over & over? I was waiting for Diaz to take a couple of short steps back or sidestep to cut off the escape & throw another combo but Condit kept throwing, and landing a strike on the exit each time.

[jimufctna24]

I had it 48-47 to Diaz.

 

I had Diaz winning rounds 1,2 and 5. Why Dana White and others gave the 5th to Condit baffles me, Diaz controlled Condit on the ground and came the closest to finishing out of either of them at any stage of the fight.

 

Condit had a good gameplan, and the verdict was far from a robbery. I hope they rematch over the summer as GSP is not back until winter time, but I doubt they will.

 

Werdum showed much improved striking under Chute Boxe old coach, and showed why Shogun is a moron for cutting ties with that coach recently.

 

I gave Diaz the 5th but I don't think it was too much of a stretch to be honest to give Condit the round. Until the last minute when Diaz got his back and took him down, Condit was landing the better strikes, some good combos and also a very eye catching headkick. I gave it to Diaz for coming closer to finishing than Condit did but even then he really never even came that close to completing the choke.

 

Shogun a moron? Blasphemy. I know what you mean though, I wish he'd stayed at Kings MMA too. I wish Cordeiro, Wanderlei and Shogun would all join forces again like the old days. Aswell as reforming their old team they'd also have guys like Munoz and Werdum to train with regularly aswell.

I am a massive Shogun fan, but he is doing exactly what BJ Penn and to a extent Lesnar did. He looked like a killer agaisnt Forrest Griffin under Corderio in August, to completly break ties after that is baffling to me.

 

Both Penn and Brock both were the leaders of their camp so they did not get pushed as much as they should have been, look at how impressive Penn was until he parted with that NFL Condioning coach. Lesnar also was rumored to have a "no hitting in face" policy in his camp which Pat Barry did not exactly dismiss to Bas Rutten.

 

I would have to go back and watch the fifth round to see how much Condit got the best before Diaz scored that takedown, however I felt Diaz was pretty close to that submission as one big transition would have gave him a armbar who was looking for, if he would have not have rushed the choke later on due to the time running out he could have got Condit. All "could" and "would" haves though which do not count for much.

 

Kings MMA is great camp, only Mayhem has not looked improved since going there.

[wandshogun09]

This is what impressed me the most. His spacial awareness was excellent & more importantly, Diaz didn't have an answer for it. Despite him doing the exact same thing over & over? I was waiting for Diaz to take a couple of short steps back or sidestep to cut off the escape & throw another combo but Condit kept throwing, and landing a strike on the exit each time.

 

Yeah Diaz is a great fighter but that just proves he's not the elite boxer people say he is. He has excellent hands for MMA but I think he'd have problems in pro boxing. I'd have thought he'd know how to cut a guy off from circling better. Fair enough that's harder in a cage than a ring but he was just going forward mostly, no side movement for most of the fight.

 

Thought this was interesting

 

 

I'm sick of this Condit ran bollocks aswell to be honest. This mentality that if you don't stand in front of the other guy and throw/eat haymakers then you're a coward is complete shite. He fought smart, hardly took any damage and did what no-one else has been able to do in about 5 years, stand with Nick Diaz and win. Condit has one of the highest finish ratios in MMA history, to try to diminish his win and claim he's less of a fighter because he fought in an intelligent way pisses me right off.

 

The first thing any fighter will tell you is it's a mistake to go in looking for the KO. It's better to work your game and land as many accurate and effective shots as you can and the KO will come by itself. Just looking for the KO leads to mistakes. He was landing good strikes, if he'd hurt Diaz badly at some point he'd have pounced and went for the kill no doubt but I don't blame him for a second for not putting himself in danger against one of the better strikers in MMA when his tactics were working.

[Bus Surfer]

The FightMetric stats

 

 

Agreed on much of what everyone has said. Condit should be applauded for not just standing in front of Diaz or getting backed up onto the cage to eat some combos. He fought a perfect fight and didn't let Diaz walk him down. Condit wasn't doing a Kalib Starnes either, he may have been going backwards at some point, but he was still outlanding Diaz.

[wandshogun09]

I am a massive Shogun fan, but he is doing exactly what BJ Penn and to a extent Lesnar did. He looked like a killer agaisnt Forrest Griffin under Corderio in August, to completly break ties after that is baffling to me.

 

Both Penn and Brock both were the leaders of their camp so they did not get pushed as much as they should have been, look at how impressive Penn was until he parted with that NFL Condioning coach. Lesnar also was rumored to have a "no hitting in face" policy in his camp which Pat Barry did not exactly dismiss to Bas Rutten.

 

Yeah I can see what you mean. It's frustrating as a fan of his isn't it. He's still got the talent to hang with most of the top guys, but injuries have really fucked him over the years. Every time he starts to find some consistency he gets injured and it sets him back. But touching on what you said, I agree I'm not sure his motivation to train is what it once was either.

 

I think he's improved his boxing, his hands and his power seem better than ever to me but he's just too injury prone. His knees are about as strong as wafer these days and he hasn't looked in great physical shape for ages. Last time he looked in top shape was the Liddell fight imo. Even the Machida fights he looked a bit soft and he looked very flabby his last few fights despite the Griffin KO win and a great effort vs Hendo.

 

It's a shame. I'm not blaming it all on injuries. I'd pick Jones and Rashad to beat him at any point to be honest but there's no denying it's really hindered him.