Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Card placement shouldn't matter though. If you're going to boo a guy for going out and saying "I'm gonna do this for Eddie!", why cheer a guy doing the exact same thing. I don't see the relevance in being a relative either. It's not like it was Val Venis running around dedicating his towels to Eddie before stripping, Rey was clearly one of Eddie's best friends.  I'm going to shut up now, as that almost reads like I'm defending the angle.  Come on, it's not like card placement doesn't matter.  Chavo beating a midcarder for the IC Title (or whatever it was he did) on an episode of RAW is hardly the same as a four month Tribute To Eddie Campaign that ends with you winning the Title at Wrestlemania.  It almost seems like people are arguing this point with me for the sake of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Shut the fuck up, Donny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Shut the fuck up, Donny. You are out of your element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Come on, it's not like card placement doesn't matter.  I get what you're saying, but to me, they were both doing the same thing.  Just because one was doing it lower down the card doesn't make it better.   It almost seems like people are arguing this point with me for the sake of it!  Sorry..  Chavo beating a midcarder for the IC Title   Chavo lost.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Haha! Did he? Â Fantastic. Â Poor Chavo, no-one ever remembers stuff he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The main reason why he never drew money as champion was his size. I'll argue that all night. Â Â "Just when you think you have the answers, I CHANGE THE QUESTIONS" Â (literally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 Your giving me Piper as an example? Take Mysterio's lucha gimmick off him, put him in 6 inch lifts, let him talk like Piper, give him Orndorff and Ace Orton Jr., give him an interview segment, put him on a music video on MTV, let him kick a popular female singer in the arse, let him attack one of TV's most popular stars at a press conference, let him crack open the head of one of the biggest babyfaces in the history of the territory with a coconut and take away Angle and Orton and put Hogan with him and Mysterio probably would draw money. Piper wouldnt have draw shit as a babyface in 1984. Heels have a million shortcuts, and Piper was perfect in the roll. Put Piper next to Andre and Hogan, and you werent going to see Piper main eventing many shows as a face. Â Take off Roddy's kilt, let him be a babyface, with a high flying style and chop his ankles off and Piper wouldnt draw flies if you rolled him in shit. Piper and Mysterio are worlds apart. Piper wasnt big, but he was head and shoulders above Mysterio. Had a look, had a gimmick, the smoke and mirrors and everything. Mysterio's one of the smallest men they've ever employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 whooooosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 whooooosh I thought he was using Piper as an example due to Roddy's small statue. Â Also, I dont see how I'm changing the questions. Thats how blind I was to how any could think I wasnt remaining consistant in my argument. I take the confusion as a badge of honour. Its you, Eddie, thats crying about people arguing with you for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I thought he was using Piper as an example due to Roddy's small statue. Also, I dont see how I'm changing the questions. Its you thats crying about people arguing for the sake of it.  Fair enough, but it was "whooooosh" worthy as you did miss his point completely.  I'm hardly crying am I.  You stated that Rey got boo'd at Mania 22 because he was a "midget". I disagreed, arguing that it was the Eddie tribute backlash that caused the boos.  Since then you've moved on to talking about Rey's poor Title run's, how he wouldn't stand a chance against the Taker, how he's only good to be a part-time Main Eventer and all sorts of other things.  All ignoring the original point I took issue with.  He didn't get boo'd at Mania 22 "because he's small". If that were the case, then surely he'd get boo'd every time he wrestlers in a Main Event against someone taller than him (so, every single time).  We've even had Cletus piping in with "well, Chavo didn't get boo'd when he paid tribute to Eddie" even though the two instances are World's apart. One was a TV match (that Chavo lost), the other was a four month run-up to Wrestlemania and a World Title win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman89762000 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 With regards to rey from my perspective looking back at it as much as the whole ''doing it for eddie'' thing repulsed me what really turned me off him and made me hope somebody ANYBODY else would win was that segment in the rumble ppv where they had to draw balls out to see who would enter from 1-30 and rey got #1 and he was like ''oh eddy you scamp i cant believe ya played a trick on me lol im in at #1''. Â which made me think he was a fucking cocky cunt who rather than display the underdog thing of thinking ''shit im in at #1 i gotta do some planning here'' he's taking the piss outta it and making it seem like its not a big deal. Â Which was completely the wrong attitude to take look at hbk winning it twice after entering at #1 or benoit accomplishing it as well or batista/cena segment the 2 hbk/taker segments as well which show the amount of effort people put in to get to be the last man standing in there. Â Of course at the same time its fucking scripted so if they're not arsed about having mini me rip the piss outta getting #1 why should we care about his fight to beat 29 other people?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 He didn't get boo'd at Mania 22 "because he's small". If that were the case, then surely he'd get boo'd every time he wrestlers in a Main Event against someone taller than him (so, every single time). That makes no sense? Its WrestleMania, and he's in the ring with Kurt Angle. People could see through the bullshit. Its why they gave it 9 minutes and wanted them out as fast as possible. Its the reason the decision to put the belt on him was changed several times over the weekend. The very reason his title reign was buried was because of the reaction in the arena that night. He got booed. You'd think it was the first time someone was involved in a tasteless angle. WWE fans were numb to tasteless angles in 2006. My original point of him getting booed was in the context of the fans not wanting him to go over Angle. Â the other was a four month run-up to Wrestlemania and a World Title win. Exactly. We'd seen enough of him by then. He was shoved down out throats during those four months. I for one didnt want to stomach a title run with him doing the underdog bullshit. Its part of the reason Guerrero never drew. Guerrero was popular, but he didnt have the big time favour to him and he couldnt carry himself like a main event. The booing doesnt really matter such. World Champions are your Triple H's, your Randy Orton's and your John Cena's. The likes of Rey Mysterio enhance the card and do a superhero act for the people in the audience who are into characters like him. I was just using it as an example of people feeling it was an unpopular decision at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 That makes no sense? Its WrestleMania, and he's in the ring with Kurt Angle. People could see through the bullshit. Its why they gave it 9 minutes and wanted them out as fast as possible. Its the reason the decision to put the belt on him was changed several times over the weekend. The very reason his title reign was buried was because of the reaction in the arena that night. He got booed. You'd think it was the first time someone was involved in a tasteless angle. WWE fans were numb to tasteless angles in 2006. My original point of him getting booed was in the context of the fans not wanting him to go over Angle.  Exactly. We'd seen enough of him by then. He was shoved down out throats during those four months. I for one didnt want to stomach a title run with him doing the underdog bullshit. Its part of the reason Guerrero never drew. Guerrero was popular, but he didnt have the big time favour to him and he couldnt carry himself like a main event.   The 'bullshit' that people could see through was the crappy "Dedicate my every breath to Eddie" stuff, not Rey as a performer. Rey is one of the most popular WWE performers ever. If there was that much resentment back in 2006, how come he is as over as ever now?  It wasn't just another tasteless angle either, was it! It was cashing in on a very real wrestling death. They haven't really ever done that in modern day WWE (that i can remember) and the over-sentimental shit Rey was banging on about got rather creepy the closer to Wrestlemania we got.  I really don't buy the idea that the WWE fans got behind Rey all through the build-up, but then bailed on him at the actual Title match, because they suddenly thought "actually, he's no match for Kurt Angle, he's too small".  "My original point of him getting booed was in the context of the fans not wanting him to go over Angle."  ...yeah, in response to someone claiming that smaller athletes could draw. You used it to argue that small guys like Rey will get boo'd against larger guys in top matches. You ignored the whole issue of "Eddie" going into the match. This is my whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Your giving me Piper as an example? Take Mysterio's lucha gimmick off him, put him in 6 inch lifts, let him talk like Piper, give him Orndorff and Ace Orton Jr., give him an interview segment, put him on a music video on MTV, let him kick a popular female singer in the arse, let him attack one of TV's most popular stars at a press conference, let him crack open the head of one of the biggest babyfaces in the history of the territory with a coconut and take away Angle and Orton and put Hogan with him and Mysterio probably would draw money. Piper wouldnt have draw shit as a babyface in 1984. Heels have a million shortcuts, and Piper was perfect in the roll. Put Piper next to Andre and Hogan, and you werent going to see Piper main eventing many shows as a face. Take off Roddy's kilt, let him be a babyface, with a high flying style and chop his ankles off and Piper wouldnt draw flies if you rolled him in shit. Piper and Mysterio are worlds apart. Piper wasnt big, but he was head and shoulders above Mysterio. Had a look, had a gimmick, the smoke and mirrors and everything. Mysterio's one of the smallest men they've ever employed.   Why is it that the longer this thread goes on, the more I think it'll slowly deteriorate from a debate about why Rey was getting booed at WrestleMania 22 (which, incidentally, was bollock all to do with his size and was to do with the whole Eddie-sploitation story, as well as the match being short which makes the whole thing seem needlessly insensitive just for a nine minute feelgood moment) into a popularity contest...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 24, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 24, 2011 The 'bullshit' that people could see through was the crappy "Dedicate my every breath to Eddie" stuff, not Rey as a performer. Not due to the fact they were in Chicago? A red hot wrestling town who can see the forest from the trees. They were pro Angle. The "Let's Go Angle" chants showed that. Â Rey is one of the most popular WWE performers ever. If there was that much resentment back in 2006, how come he is as over as ever now? That has nothing to do with his credibility as a main event performer though. There are plenty of examples of that. Look at DDP. Could headline PPV's with Savage and Goldberg and draw with them. He sold plenty of merchandise. When he won the belt, it flopped. Mysterio's over in his role on the show, because he appeals to a certain audience and a certain taste. He is comfortable working the main event style and isnt out of place working with midcarders. Very much like Jericho and Benoit were. I like Mysterio. I love watching him, I'd buy one of his masks if I saw one in the shop. I'd never pay to see him wrestle Brock Lesnar though. It would be a good match, but the atmospher of two gladiators coming together, which all the big money matches are about, would never be there. Look at Savage vs Hogan, Rock vs Austin, Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels, Cactus Jack vs Triple H. You could recreate that atmospher with a Mysterio. He can be a champion, fair enough. But he'll never draw as a champion, and he'll not even have credibility as a champion. Â It wasn't just another tasteless angle either, was it! It was cashing in on a very real wrestling death. They haven't really ever done that in modern day WWE (that i can remember) and the over-sentimental shit Rey was banging on about got rather creepy the closer to Wrestlemania we got. Why didnt WWE pull the angle then if it was such a huge problem? Everything was going swimmingly up until that point. It was a tasteless angle, but it was set to come to an end at WrestleMania. Benoit never got boos, and his kissing Rey on the head and hugging Vickie bullshit was just as sickening. If your next main event star is that over, he can over come shite like that. Mysterio wasnt because he didnt have the presence, charisma, size, ring style or any attributes of a main event performer. Â I really don't buy the idea that the WWE fans got behind Rey all through the build-up, but then bailed on him at the actual Title match, because they suddenly thought "actually, he's no match for Kurt Angle, he's too small". What your saying is you can believe people are behind the angle until they get to WrestleMania, but you cant believe the fans were cheering him on until they got to a hardcore Chicago fanbase (who tore shreds out of the likes of Trish and Cena that night) who saw Angle in the ring with someone who didnt deserve to beat him for the World belt and booed him out the building? If they "got behind him" as you say, until Mania, then they angle must have been working, no? If they got the desired response. Â Anyway, Smackdowns a taped show. How do you know they got behind him? A lot of times you see Mysterio on PPV around that period (and occassionally now) the fans dont take to him. Â "My original point of him getting booed was in the context of the fans not wanting him to go over Angle."[/b]Â ...yeah, in response to someone claiming that smaller athletes could draw. You used it to argue that small guys like Rey will get boo'd against larger guys in top matches. You ignored the whole issue of "Eddie" going into the match. This is my whole point. I covered the Eddie Guerrero thing plenty of times in this thread. And again in this very post. If the fans didnt like it, they'd have pulled it because WWE dont mess about with the WrestleMania build. The fans were chanting "Eddie, Eddie, Eddie" every night anyway. They were giving them every reason to keep the angle alive. Â Why is it that the longer this thread goes on, the more I think it'll slowly deteriorate from a debate about why Rey was getting booed at WrestleMania 22 (which, incidentally, was bollock all to do with his size and was to do with the whole Eddie-sploitation story, as well as the match being short which makes the whole thing seem needlessly insensitive just for a nine minute feelgood moment) into a popularity contest...? Because your gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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