METAL ON METAL Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Who all was in the kingston/Bourne post win segment? Â Ryder, Derrick Bateman, Titus O'Neil & Aksana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 I thought Punk came off as a massive star again, JB. The real talking point in the Nash/Mr. H's/Punk segment was Nash losing it when the crowd started to "What?" him again. That's two weeks now. Â I think a lot of Punks 'schtick' falling on its arse has a lot to do with the average age of the audience. His first 'shoot' promo reaction was fairly tame watching it back. The week he came back for that contract signing with Vince, he had the crowd popping for the old WWE Ice Cream. If he tried that line last night, I'm sure the fans would have not reacted. It's similar to his Savage elbow, the fans were chanting "Thank You, Savage" at Summer Slam but last night the reaction was tame by comparison. Â On Savage, his promos sometimes never made sense (like a lot of the 80s guys) but his delivery was so good and he hit certain marks, that fans got the gist of it. They were into it because they can feel Savages emotion. I think Punk is on to a similar thing, he's so bitchy about Nash that you can feel the hate without having to read Meltzer to know what he's on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 . I think Punk is on to a similar thing, he's so bitchy about Nash that you can feel the hate without having to read Meltzer to know what he's on about. Â Â I agree. Â Frankly, anything that makes wrestler conversations seem more realistic is good with me. I don't necessarily mean 'natural', but realistic in the confines of pro wrestling. I'd rather have someone sound genuinely like they are throwing insults (even if that means a few digs go over a few people's heads) than watch people clearly reading the "funny line" that they've been made to memorize by the writers. Â If the Jack Tunney line had been the centre-piece of his promo, then I may have had a problem with it, but as a throw-away line I think it's completely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I get your point about it not always mattering what you say but how you deliver it and I agree that the delivery is more important. It still doesn't sit right with me though. Taking the Jack Tunney reference as an example, the people who are going to react to that or more than likely going to be watching WWE regardless or have moved on so it doesn't hold much purpose unless he's doing it to make the boyzzz laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 If he tried that line last night, I'm sure the fans would have not reacted. They were in Canada. The biggest start arse country in the world for wrestling. A town where Nash and Triple H were big time over (probably because they still watch old episodes of WWF Mania, knowing the Canadians). Everyone and his dog knows about the Ice Cream bars. They only stopped selling them in 2008. They have that nostalgic feel. People probably still remember seeing them years ago or in the local shop. Certain things are well known like the Ice Cream bars. He could have said Jack Tunney and Vanilla Midget in any town in the world and it would have gotten the same reaction. The Rock could have mentioned Jack Tunney in Canada in 2000 and it would have lead to thousands of heads scratching. If long-time WWF Canadian president Jack Tunney wasnt going to get a pop in a big wrestling city in Canada, you werent going to get a pop anywhere else. Â I think the storyline is good (anything with Diesel is a bonus for myself), but a lot of it is disjointed. If there was such an obvious hatred between Nash and Punk, they wouldnt have to resort to wink-wink shite like "indyrific" and "vanilla midgets". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Yeah, there's a fine line I think. Whilst I really liked the idea of using the WWE releases as heat against 'the system' as it was both current and using 'insider' references towards the storyline, there can be times where they're alienating the majority of their fan base to please the minority with smark comments. If they can work the 'insider' comments into the story like they did with the releases, then I've not a problem with it. Maybe I'm being naive but I was wondering what sort of reaction Nash would get on Raw as a lot of viewers are too young to remember him or weren't alive at the last time he was in WWE. I think WWE's main focus should have been educating the viewers on who Nash is. Â This might sound lame, but perhaps when Punk is saying that Nash doesn't know what's good for business the commentators could chime in with something explaining he was a booker of WCW? Actually saying that, it's just further driving away from the point they need to hammer home. They should keep the insider stuff subtle. I was talking to someone who's kind of half-smark but doesn't really keep up with wrestling news and was fooled by the first Punk promo as being shoot, he feels like there's too much stuff about the WWE business going on at the moment and he just wants to see wrestling. I wonder how many casuals feel the same way. If they are targetting kids, perhaps the business talk is alienating them a bit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 They were in Canada. The biggest start arse country in the world for wrestling. A town where Nash and Triple H were big time over (probably because they still watch old episodes of WWF Mania, knowing the Canadians). Everyone and his dog knows about the Ice Cream bars. They only stopped selling them in 2008. They have that nostalgic feel. People probably still remember seeing them years ago or in the local shop. Certain things are well known like the Ice Cream bars. He could have said Jack Tunney and Vanilla Midget in any town in the world and it would have gotten the same reaction. The Rock could have mentioned Jack Tunney in Canada in 2000 and it would have lead to thousands of heads scratching. If long-time WWF Canadian president Jack Tunney wasnt going to get a pop in a big wrestling city in Canada, you werent going to get a pop anywhere else. I think the storyline is good (anything with Diesel is a bonus for myself), but a lot of it is disjointed. If there was such an obvious hatred between Nash and Punk, they wouldnt have to resort to wink-wink shite like "indyrific" and "vanilla midgets". Well I disagree somewhat. I personally thought the crowd was a bit tame for a Canadian crowd (the real smart arse Canadians cheer the heels and boo the faces).  On your last line, I think the wink-wink stuff is fine. Simply down to the delivery. Roddy Piper is another good example of a guy who was a mental promo that sometimes made no sense, but he hit certain marks and was so great in delivery that you didn't need to know what the fuck he was talking about. You can get away with a Jack Tunney line bombing if you make sure to hit your marks and make sure the narrative forwards things a bit. It was one line.  Last week was a bit more 'insider' than it needed to be, I agree. But that had a lot to do with Nash going on that mental rant until he ended up at waffle house. I thought Punk did a grand job of saving it with his "no more talking, I'm coming down there to kick your ass" line and the security thing with Nash's smug grin. Again, the delivery was fine before that (both men sounded like they find each other a bit shit and can't stand the other). To me the insider stuff makes it seem more personal.  EDIT: Also I think we may be overanalyzing this somewhat (What?! Us?). I was out with a few mates and two of them starting talking about wrestling and Punk. These two are as casual as they come and only started watching for the first time in AGES because The Rock came back. They have no clue about the inside workings of wrestling but they were going on about how awesome CM Punk was during the Nash segment last week. They didn't once mention "indyriffic" or "vanilla midget" as confusing and if anything loved it more, as it came across as two men trying their best to outwit the other (like the good old days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Roddy Piper is another good example of a guy who was a mental promo that sometimes made no sense, but he hit certain marks and was so great in delivery that you didn't need to know what the fuck he was talking about. Piper was a different class. What he was doing was completely original in his first WWF run. A national audience hadnt seen anything like him and Hogan. Everyone has ripped off Piper since then. The only person who cant do Roddy Piper anymore is Roddy Piper, funnily enough. And Piper was a completely different kettle of fish. Piper was off the cuff, allowed to creative intensity and heat in what were fairly basic storylines. The Hogan, Mr. T and Cyndi Lauper things werent as complex as what they need to do to get an angle over today. These constant insider jokes seems way to forced for me. Â Â You can get away with a Jack Tunney line bombing if you make sure to hit your marks and make sure the narrative forwards things a bit. It was one line. Well what was the point in using the Jack Tunney line in the first place? It does more harm than good. But its the Vanilla Midgets line that I'm talking about mainly. Its so pointless. The significants of Nash calling them that in the first place was because Nash was the booker of WCW and refused to push them. If you dont know the story behind it, your probably think worse things are said by the divas than that. Â Last week was a bit more 'insider' than it needed to be, I agree. But that had a lot to do with Nash going on that mental rant until he ended up at waffle house. I thought Punk did a grand job of saving it with his "no more talking, I'm coming down there to kick your ass" line and the security thing with Nash's smug grin. Again, the delivery was fine before that (both men sounded like they find each other a bit shit and can't stand the other). To me the insider stuff makes it seem more personal. Thats the thing though: its not personal at all. Its pure storyline. They dont need to get all inside. Nash is Triple H's best mate. Thats enough. Vanilla Midgets and shite like that isnt needed at all. Just let them talk. Nash is going to beat him and send him back to Smackdown anyway. Might as well do it in the conventional manner. Â I dont no why I'm going on about it. I actually like it. But the big storylines are actually characters built in the context of the angle itself. Like the hatred that you believed was between Triple H and Batista. Or McMahon and Austin (even though you know Austin works for him). Or the nWo taking over a company that has them registered as employers of Turner Sports. Or Hogan and Savage, even though we could all see it coming before they broke up. As Vince said when Foley asked him to do a storyline based on Foley losing his eye in WCW. Vince said "we'll create are own reality, we dont need real life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Is the general opinion that were gonna get more members of the Clique appearing soon? We've had HBK's name pop up once or twice. Be great to see X Pac back in the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Impact Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Punk vs Cena have great chemistry together, I bet the wwe wish Cena vs Orton had the same kind, Im not saying they dont have good matches but the crowd eat up CM/JC anytime there together.  Great Raw I thought  They need to clue Nash in on who and what Punks done and give him pointers cos last week him saying 'Punk you've main evented what two PPVs really?' was stupid considering hes headlined against Cena, Taker, Batista, Hardy etc at over a dozen ppvs.  would have rathered Kingston & Bourne vs Otung/Gil get stopped by MizTruth leading to 3way at ppv with them taking belts cos now I can see bourne/king losing at ppv (if Miztruth get a shot ofcourse)  I can see Xpac coming back some point for a short run maybe leading to Punk bringing in his buddy Cabana for his 'kliq' (Are'nt Pac & Colt friends aswell?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 On the Lawler thing Dave Meltzer said this on the BOARD!@~" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 On the Lawler thing Dave Meltzer said this on the BOARD!@~" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Well what was the point in using the Jack Tunney line in the first place? It does more harm than good. But its the Vanilla Midgets line that I'm talking about mainly. Its so pointless. The significants of Nash calling them that in the first place was because Nash was the booker of WCW and refused to push them. If you dont know the story behind it, your probably think worse things are said by the divas than that. CM Punks character is that of a guy that mentions Jack Tunney. He's the guy that brings up Ice cream, NJPW, Colt Cabana, "What a maneuver" etc. Â I think the "vanilla midget" line is getting overanalyzed a tad. As I stated, my mates didn't really get it for what it was meant but they didn't scratch their heads and it didn't take them out of the segment and kill the flow. Who knows, to them that line just means Nash thought Eddie Guerrero, a Hall of Famer, was a bit shit and Punk used it as an example of Nash not having a clue (this was a response to Nash saying CM Punk should hit the gym and that). Â Â Thats the thing though: its not personal at all. Its pure storyline. They dont need to get all inside. Nash is Triple H's best mate. Thats enough. Vanilla Midgets and shite like that isnt needed at all. Just let them talk. Nash is going to beat him and send him back to Smackdown anyway. Might as well do it in the conventional manner. Nah, Nash is coming back as Oz after his feud with Punk. Meltzer said WWE are deliberate in wanting certain things mentioned. Oz will probably be SD champion in two weeks of arriving there though. Â Very interesting post by Meltzer. If you've read Dave Lagana's blog you'll know the amount of criticism Punk has endured since he arrived in WWE. Everybody bar Heyman thought he was shit and if it wasn't for Shawn Michaels saying in a creative meeting "instead of burying him, why not try and do something instead" Punk would probably be where Colt Cabana is right now. The thing with Punk is he's so fucking quick on the mic that nobody on the current roster can make him look daft. I'd love to see him go toe to toe with Rock and Austin to see if he's really as good as I think he might be. I think Cena's line, about Punk being the only person good enough to hang with Cena, was also a subtle nod to Punk finally getting some respect from the top dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Impact Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It always bugs me when people say Punks 'too small' etc on Raw he wasnt much shorter than Trips fair enough hes not a muscly bit still, and hes about the same height and build as HBK but his size wasnt a problem to wwe or his legacy. Â A 'World' champion is a better name than 'heavyweight' cos Flair, HBK, Hart etc were'nt heavyweights but are as respected as anyone theres been, the top champion should be someone that the fans want to pay to Cheer/Boo regartless of there size. Â Both Miz and Punk get a hard time but both have proven to be solid on the mic, in the ring, dunno about merch sales but I'd reckon they'd do decent sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhenom Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 On the Clique thing, WWE were going to reunite the Clique (without Scott Hall *sob*) in 2002. So maybe they'll go down that road. Michaels can be the Mystery GM, X-Pac returns and the Band Ride Again. I think the fact they were going to do the angle without Scott Hall years ago means they dont feel his important to the angle (and who could blame them to be fair). Probably more chance of me debuting my "cowboy in a robe" gimmick on next weeks Superstars than that, but you never know. I remember watching a Q&A video that X Pac done on his website back in June or so, and someone asked him if the 2002 Kliq rumors were true, and I swear he said there not truth to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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