Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 No its because the fans didnt want to see a midget beat Kurt Angle. Who was at a career height in popularity at the time. He was only EVER the champion because Guerrero died anyway. According to the writers at the time, Vince still wasnt convinced the very day. A lot of it was down to his size why he failed. There's only so much a little flyer can do against the heavyweights. If you put him against the Undertaker, you'd go home before the three count was made if Undertaker caught him with a punch. I'm not saying you have to be 6'8". But someone of Mysterio's size was always going to be a short term or a gimmick champion. Â Â We'll have to agree to disagree. Â I don't dispute the general idea that a fair few fans thought/think Rey is too small to be a full-time main event guy, but I remember the talk and build-up around that Mania pretty well and a lot of people were getting sick of Rey's 'Eddie Cashing In' bullshit and in my opinion that was the sentiment at Mania 22 from the fans that boo'd him. Â If you start bringing logic into everything, surely 6 foot 10, 300lbs Undertaker could also kill 5 foot 11, 190lbs Shawn Michaels with one punch! Â Anyway, Taker and Rey had a fun, competitive Title match at the rumble in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 No its because the fans didnt want to see a midget beat Kurt Angle. Who was at a career height in popularity at the time. He was only EVER the champion because Guerrero died anyway. According to the writers at the time, Vince still wasnt convinced the very day. A lot of it was down to his size why he failed. There's only so much a little flyer can do against the heavyweights. If you put him against the Undertaker, you'd go home before the three count was made if Undertaker caught him with a punch. I'm not saying you have to be 6'8". But someone of Mysterio's size was always going to be a short term or a gimmick champion. Except your point falls down massively because he didn't get booed at all during his second title reign, or when he won the WWE Championship a few weeks ago. I'm inclined to agree with Eddie and the others in that it was almost completely to do with the Eddie shit as to why he got booed when he won at WM22. That said, it probably didn't help that the match only went about nine minutes. Â EDIT: The first Eddie is Dirty Eddie, the second is Eddie Guerrero, just to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rob Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think you are clutching at straws trying to tie his size in to his reception at Mania 22 still. So, you think that the fans didn't boo him in the build-up (when he was being pushed as the top contender) but decided on the night he was actually too small, so they decided to shit on him? Seems a stretch to me. The Wrestlemania audience is the most hardcore of their fans, they pay the most and travel the furthest. They are the most dedicated fans and so they tend to "know their stuff" a bit more than your average House Show crowd. There was definitely a bit of a backlash to Rey's 'tribute' push, and the hardcore 'Mania crowd picked up on it more than most. I don't think his size had much to do with that situation.  His treatment from the bookers after that though gave him no chance of getting over in the role. Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. There's been a bunch of times that Rey has been cheered over Angle, so I really don't think the "we don't want a little fella beating Kurt" argument holds much water, especially since there was a far more likely reason to boo Rey, due to his push as a replacement Eddie of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Except your point falls down massively because he didn't get booed at all during his second title reign, or when he won the WWE Championship a few weeks ago. I'm inclined to agree with Eddie and the others in that it was almost completely to do with the Eddie shit as to why he got booed when he won at WM22. That said, it probably didn't help that the match only went about nine minutes. That three week reign and the half an hour reign? There's a massive difference between being built up to the point where you know he is going to win the belt (like when he won the Rumble, did that "will he wont he" storyline where he lost his title shot to Orton and then go on the win the WWE belt at WrestleMania of all places) and winning a title on a surprise like both of those title wins were. One off PPV's and TV wins than last little more than a week are far different from shoving someone down the fans throats for four months before exposing him as not being able to carry the title. David Arquette never got booed as WCW champion either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Kliq vs. Punk, Hero, Castagnoli and Cabana at Survivor Series? It won't happen as they'd need to rely on Hall to turn up or have Michaels come out of retirement...or get on the phone to Justin Credible... Â How would you explain what's going on at the moment to someone who doesn't watch wrestling? I keep putting off watching Raw with my girlfriend as I keep feeling she's not going to get into it much without knowing what's going on. I suppose you work it out yourself after a few epsiodes but I guess I'm fearing she'll lose interest if she doesn't know what's going on after the first episode. I'm supposed to be going to Wrestlemania with her so it'd be a good idea to start educating her now. She said she liked The Miz from a YouTube video she saw except when he slated LeBron James. The Miz is great for casual fans - his appearances on TV shows like Blue Peter and that US show he went on recently are great. Apparently Vince is high up on him now and was really impressed with what he made of the Subway segment last week and told the rest of the roster that he's looking for someone who can do that with a segment. Â EDIT: Unless it's just Punk, Hero and Castagnoli vs. Nash, Hall and Waltman? I can't see it happening but it's an option. I reckon it'll be Team Vince vs. Team Triple H somehow or Punk in a singles match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That three week reign and the half an hour reign? There's a massive difference between being built up to the point where you know he is going to win the belt (like when he won the Rumble, did that "will he wont he" storyline where he lost his title shot to Orton and then go on the win the WWE belt at WrestleMania of all places) and winning a title on a surprise like both of those title wins were. One off PPV's and TV wins than last little more than a week are far different from shoving someone down the fans throats for four months before exposing him as not being able to carry the title. David Arquette never got booed as WCW champion either. Â Â As you just said, it was clear from the Rumble that Rey was going to win the belt "for Eddie", and that's probably another reason why there was some resentment from the Wrestlemania crowd. Mania crowds are always more in-the-know, so a 9 minute World Title match with a predictable ending probably didn't help Rey either. Â If it was his size that people objected to, why wasn't he boo'd in the build-up to the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 If it was his size that people objected to, why wasn't he boo'd in the build-up to the match? Never said it was soley his size, but that was a big part of it. And anyway, pops dont generate success at the box office. He bombed miserably as the World champion. What he brings to the WWE is invaluable. His strengths make him not need the belt. Like the Undertaker thing earlier, he can have good matches with Taker. He can get a good reaction from those matches with Taker. But is he a threat to the Undertaker? No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Never said it was soley his size, but that was a big part of it. And anyway, pops dont generate success at the box office. He bombed miserably as the World champion. What he brings to the WWE is invaluable. His strengths make him not need the belt. Like the Undertaker thing earlier, he can have good matches with Taker. He can get a good reaction from those matches with Taker. But is he a threat to the Undertaker? No chance. Â This is what you originally said... Â "This is a business where Rey Mysterio was booed because he beat Kurt Angle and Randy Orton clear at WM22." Â Referring directly to comments about Rey's size. Â Followed up with... Â "No its because the fans didnt want to see a midget beat Kurt Angle. Who was at a career height in popularity at the time" Â That's sounds rather like you thought it was the main reason. Â I'm not actually arguing with most of your points about Rey in general (there are a lot of people who dismiss him because of his size), but I still think you used his reception at Mania 22 to try and make a point about his size, when the reality is that his booing was mainly down to backlash from the Eddie Tribute Act combined with smart, Wrestlemania fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 If the WM22 crowd were booing Rey purely because of his Eddie tribute act, why didn''t they turn on Chavo the next night for doing the exact same thing?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If the WM22 crowd were booing Rey purely because of his Eddie tribute act, why didn''t they turn on Chavo the next night for doing the exact same thing?. Â Â Because Chavo wasn't winning the World Title? Â Because Chavo is actually a close relative of Eddie's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 That's sounds rather like you thought it was the main reason. The main reason why he never drew money as champion was his size. I'll argue that all night. He never had the backing from the people in charge because of his size and the majority of the WWE's draws at the time were huge men who Mysterio was simply not on the level of (HHH, Undertaker, Angle, Orton, Batista, Cena). Mysterio is a popular guy. The Eddie thing is long forgotten about, but he could never have a title RUN (and by that I mean in the mold of Cena, Punk, Batista and the other long reigning champions). He could win it and lose it the next month, thats fair enough. But the popular opinion is that he's a superhero they love to get behind, and could pull off a win out of nowhere. And business was better in 2006 than it was today. The PPV's were selling more consistantly. You can put the belt on Christian or The Miz and it matters fuck all until the real big shows come along and you need your money players in the prime spots. But going from Batista to Mysterio was seen for what it was. I remember seeing Billy Kidman wrestling Hulk Hogan, and Hogan was taking Frankensteiners and bumping for Kidman. It looked fucking ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If the WM22 crowd were booing Rey purely because of his Eddie tribute act, why didn''t they turn on Chavo the next night for doing the exact same thing?. Â Easy: Â With Chavo I would of perceived that as a tribute from a family member who genuinely loved and missed his uncle. Â From Ray I would perceive it as a effort of the WWE to use Eddie's death as a tool to get over a superstar. Â One is genuine, the other is arguably suspect in its intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Easy:Â With Chavo I would of perceived that as a tribute from a family member who genuinely loved and missed his uncle. Â From Ray I would perceive it as a effort of the WWE to use Eddie's death as a tool to get over a superstar. Â One is genuine, the other is arguably suspect in its intentions. But Chavo's a nobody. Rey Mysterio's a fan favourite, who everyone respected and liked. Fair play, his uncle died, but that wouldnt be enough for me to turn on my favourite and embrance someone I cared nothing about. If it was that simple, Bruce Hart would have been IC Champion the night after they scraped Owen Hart off the floor. Â If Lanny Poffo and The Ultimate Warrior did Randy Savage cash in angles, you do you think the fans would have turned on? The character they invested into? Or Leapin' Lanny, last seen reading shit poetry with the Brothers Beverly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 The main reason why he never drew money as champion was his size. I'll argue that all night. He never had the backing from the people in charge, the majority of the WWE's draws at the time were huge men who Mysterio was simply not on the level of (HHH, Undertaker, Angle, Orton, Batista, Cena). Mysterio is a popular guy. The Eddie thing is long forgotten about, but he could never have a title RUN (and by that I mean in the mold of Cena, Punk, Batista and the other long reigning champions). He could win it and lose it the next month, thats fair enough. But the popular opinion is that he's a superhero they love to get behind, and could pull off a win out of nowhere. And business was better in 2006 than it was today. The PPV's were selling more consistantly. You can put the belt on Christian or The Miz and it matters fuck all until the real big shows come along and you need your money players in the prime spots. But going from Batista to Mysterio was seen for what it was. Â You are going off topic from the point I was arguing now. We aren't talking about why his reign ended up failing. Â I fully agree he was booked badly and his size was and is a reason why he won't be a long-term Champion. Â That has little to do with his reception at Mania 22 though. I thought it was pretty much accepted that the Eddie Tribute nonsense was the reason for the hardcore's at mania booing him. He hadn't had a failed Title run at that point, so the fans had no reason to doubt him. At the time he was a hugely popular Face, but they drummed the "this is for eddie" shit into the ground, and by Mania the fan resentment reared it's head. Â He was cheered at the Rumble and pretty much all the way to Wrestlemania, but the somewhat tasteless cashing in had gotten nauseating by the time of mania and so a fair few of those fans boo'd him. I really don't think he was cheered all the way up until his Title match, then half the fans decided (at that point) "Nah, actually he's too small. BOOOOOO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted August 23, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted August 23, 2011 Card placement shouldn't matter though. If you're going to boo a guy for going out and saying "I'm gonna do this for Eddie!", why cheer a guy doing the exact same thing. I don't see the relevance in being a relative either. It's not like it was Val Venis running around dedicating his towels to Eddie before stripping, Rey was clearly one of Eddie's best friends. Â Â I'm going to shut up now, as that almost reads like I'm defending the angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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