2011/2012 Scottish Football Thread

[Carbomb]

Basically, because of the Rangers finances, the games in the period should have been 3-0 walkovers.

 

Sorry, feeling very dim today - not had my tea yet. I'm not sure I follow - do you mean that these are games that should've been forfeited as the standard 0-3 for the state of their finances?

Yep, sorry I wasn't clear. There wasn't some Russo style swerves or Dusty finishes to the games in question.

Would be brilliant if there were. Thanks for that, though.

 

 

It's a complicated situation that has pretty much been forgotten about the last couple of months due to the liquidation and everything that has gone with it.

 

Rangers were found guilty of using an Emplyee Benefit Trust (EBT) in a manner that HMRC viewed illegal. Rangers appealed this decision and at the moment there has been no outcome to the appeal. If the appeal had failed and Rangers still existed then the SFA/SPL would have had a bigger problem on their hands than they have currently. Their rules state that any player paid by more than one contract is considered ineligible and therefor any match they play in is awarded as a 3-0 win to the opposition.

 

What the authorities would do considering Rangers had paid a lot of their staff via EBTs for nearly 10 years is anyone's guess?

 

Ahhhh, I see. Thanks very much for the clarification.

 

I know this must seem odd, an English bloke who's not been interested in football for 12 years all of a sudden asking questions, but I have to say it's this sort of scenario, i.e. a major club effectively having to start from the ground up again and changing the landscape of the league, which could get me really interested again.

[MrK]

Basically, because of the Rangers finances, the games in the period should have been 3-0 walkovers.

 

Sorry, feeling very dim today - not had my tea yet. I'm not sure I follow - do you mean that these are games that should've been forfeited as the standard 0-3 for the state of their finances?

Yep, sorry I wasn't clear. There wasn't some Russo style swerves or Dusty finishes to the games in question.

Would be brilliant if there were. Thanks for that, though.

 

 

It's a complicated situation that has pretty much been forgotten about the last couple of months due to the liquidation and everything that has gone with it.

 

Rangers were found guilty of using an Emplyee Benefit Trust (EBT) in a manner that HMRC viewed illegal. Rangers appealed this decision and at the moment there has been no outcome to the appeal. If the appeal had failed and Rangers still existed then the SFA/SPL would have had a bigger problem on their hands than they have currently. Their rules state that any player paid by more than one contract is considered ineligible and therefor any match they play in is awarded as a 3-0 win to the opposition.

 

What the authorities would do considering Rangers had paid a lot of their staff via EBTs for nearly 10 years is anyone's guess?

 

Ahhhh, I see. Thanks very much for the clarification.

 

I know this must seem odd, an English bloke who's not been interested in football for 12 years all of a sudden asking questions, but I have to say it's this sort of scenario, i.e. a major club effectively having to start from the ground up again and changing the landscape of the league, which could get me really interested again.

 

I think it's great to get an 'outsiders' look at Scottish football. Especially at the moment.

 

We're told that Scottish football will die if Rangers have to start from the 3rd division but in all honesty this thread has had more non Jocks posting in here the last couple of months than ever before. In reality, Scottish football hasn't had this much interest from out with the country in years.

[Carbomb]

Basically, because of the Rangers finances, the games in the period should have been 3-0 walkovers.

 

Sorry, feeling very dim today - not had my tea yet. I'm not sure I follow - do you mean that these are games that should've been forfeited as the standard 0-3 for the state of their finances?

Yep, sorry I wasn't clear. There wasn't some Russo style swerves or Dusty finishes to the games in question.

Would be brilliant if there were. Thanks for that, though.

 

 

It's a complicated situation that has pretty much been forgotten about the last couple of months due to the liquidation and everything that has gone with it.

 

Rangers were found guilty of using an Emplyee Benefit Trust (EBT) in a manner that HMRC viewed illegal. Rangers appealed this decision and at the moment there has been no outcome to the appeal. If the appeal had failed and Rangers still existed then the SFA/SPL would have had a bigger problem on their hands than they have currently. Their rules state that any player paid by more than one contract is considered ineligible and therefor any match they play in is awarded as a 3-0 win to the opposition.

 

What the authorities would do considering Rangers had paid a lot of their staff via EBTs for nearly 10 years is anyone's guess?

 

Ahhhh, I see. Thanks very much for the clarification.

 

I know this must seem odd, an English bloke who's not been interested in football for 12 years all of a sudden asking questions, but I have to say it's this sort of scenario, i.e. a major club effectively having to start from the ground up again and changing the landscape of the league, which could get me really interested again.

 

I think it's great to get an 'outsiders' look at Scottish football. Especially at the moment.

 

We're told that Scottish football will die if Rangers have to start from the 3rd division but in all honesty this thread has had more non Jocks posting in here the last couple of months than ever before. In reality, Scottish football hasn't had this much interest from out with the country in years.

 

That's the thing: is the SPL TV deal really that contingent on there being a guarantee of OF matches? Surely Sly wouldn't be so unreasonable as to drop it altogether; I'd have thought they'd realise there's still money to be made, perhaps even more now that people are much more likely to be interested in this new configuration, and simply re-engineer the deal? Celtic are still around, after all, and Hearts have always been there and thereabouts, no?

[Prince Nana]

Yeah,

 

people claim that people are only intrested in OF games but really for years it's been only the OF games that are made to look intresting. There is evidence to sugest when intresting things happen it do's get media attention.

 

For example When Romonov took over Hearts and we were doing well in 2006, we were argubly one of the most covered teams in brittain I live in the midlands and I didn't even have to attempt to look at the scottish media to hear about Heart's. There was also intrest in the edinburgh final seeminly because it was differen't.

 

Now it's Rangers that are geting all the coverage but at the moment i only hear a news item when somthing changes.When somthing happens to challenge the olf firm monopoly it seem's there is more intrest not less.

 

it dosen't look like sky will drop the deal, mabe change it but not drop it.

 

it's just being used as a scare mongering tactic but no real statment has been made.

[MrK]

One thing is for sure, change is needed.

 

The league needs to expand to at least 14 teams.

 

There needs to be more relegation spots. At the moment 1 relegated from 12 means the teams only change by 8% every season. Compare that to the Premiership (3 from 20, 15%), the championship (4 from 24, 17%), La Liga (4 from 20, 20%) etc.

 

The voting structure needs changed from 11-1 to 8-4 or the equivalent in a larger league.

 

The money from tv needs split evenly.

 

And we need to reduce our 3 governing bodies to at least 2.

[Kenny McBride]

It's inconceivable that Sky would drop the TV deal. They might try to drive a harder bargain next year, but they're not going to drop Scottish football. The bad press they'd get in Scotland would be massive and given that Scotland proportionately has more Sky Sports subscriptions than anywhere else in Britain, they'd be mugs to invite a mass boycott. At the same time, with ESPN having just lost their Premiership games, they'll be looking for other games to show. The intrigue around what the SPL will look like over the next few years might be exactly what they're looking for and might well be prepared to bid up since they're not shelling out millions on English games any more.

 

As for the dual contracts, that should have been resolved before any vote was considered on Newco being admitted to the SPL. After all, if it were ruled that those players were ineligible over a ten year period, we really ought to be looking at Rangers not having an SPL share to transfer since they'd have been rock bottom of Division 3 for the last 7 years. It's pretty outrageous that that has been glossed over. Once the dust settles and the leagues are sorted out for next season, somebody had better take a look at that issue. We've got a 10+ in a row to claim!

[Carbomb]

Always found it a bit odd that the Scottish league didn't just have two divisions of 20, rather than four of ten. I suppose it's less interesting, though, when there aren't so many promotion/relegation battles.

 

From the sound of it, there are quite a few non-SFL teams vying for entry, so surely they could easily do what you suggest? Over the course of the next couple of seasons, simply re-jig the promotion/relegation slots for the SPL/SFL1 to allow for 14 teams, and promote two teams per season into the SFL3?

 

Lessee...

 

Edinburgh City

Spartans

 

Someone please remind me who the other two were.

[Kenny McBride]

The lower leagues ought to go regional. It's pretty daft that a team the size of Peterhead has to travel to Stranraer and QotS and the like when there are teams like Cove Rangers and Inverurie Locos right on their doorstep. The top league should be bigger (I think 18 is perfect, personally, but I'm open to other suggestions). The second level should be maybe 12 teams playing four times. Underneath that, have a pyramid, with maybe a bi-annual play-off between the lowest-placed team from each region in the second division and the top team in the regional leagues.

[Carbomb]

The lower leagues ought to go regional. It's pretty daft that a team the size of Peterhead has to travel to Stranraer and QotS and the like when there are teams like Cove Rangers and Inverurie Locos right on their doorstep. The top league should be bigger (I think 18 is perfect, personally, but I'm open to other suggestions). The second level should be maybe 12 teams playing four times. Underneath that, have a pyramid, with maybe a bi-annual play-off between the lowest-placed team from each region in the second division and the top team in the regional leagues.

 

TBH, I thought that about the English leagues as well. I think that leagues 1 and 2 (is that what they're called now? Sheesh) should be regional - it'd help to narrow the gulf a little between the divisions. According to my dad, this was how it was in the old days - dunno why they got rid of it. Especially in today's less financially stable climate, it'd benefit the British professional leagues immensely, I'd wager.

[MrK]

The lower leagues ought to go regional. It's pretty daft that a team the size of Peterhead has to travel to Stranraer and QotS and the like when there are teams like Cove Rangers and Inverurie Locos right on their doorstep. The top league should be bigger (I think 18 is perfect, personally, but I'm open to other suggestions). The second level should be maybe 12 teams playing four times. Underneath that, have a pyramid, with maybe a bi-annual play-off between the lowest-placed team from each region in the second division and the top team in the regional leagues.

 

I personally think 18 is too big for the top league. There would be too much distance between top and bottom and it wouldn't do the leagues reputation any good with that size of points gap.

 

Also, assuming Newco return to the SPL, the tv money could be less with only 2 matches v Celtic per season. One thing that I believe has been successful has been the split. People hated it when it was first introduced but it has reduced the amount of meaningless games.

 

14 teams playing everyone twice: 26 matches

 

Then a split (top 7, bottom 7)

 

7 teams playing each other twice: 12 matches.

 

That keeps the league games to 38 matches, we don't have to worry about some teams having to play a team 3 times away just to even out the fixtures.

 

Bottom 2 teams are relegated and the third bottom plays third top from the division below.

 

Also long term, if we ever regain our second Chamions League spot, I'd love to see a play off between 2nd and 3rd for it like the Dutch league.

[Big Jock Knew]

Lisbon Lion, Joe McBride has passed away, aged 74.

 

Apologies for nitpicking, but Joe didn't actually play in the final.

 

Sad loss. Joe was a great guy - I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times at various things and he always had time for the supporters. Way before my time but according to my dad and granda he was a pretty deadly striker. RIP.

[Keith Houchen]

Lisbon Lion, Joe McBride has passed away, aged 74.

 

Apologies for nitpicking, but Joe didn't actually play in the final.

 

Sad loss. Joe was a great guy - I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times at various things and he always had time for the supporters. Way before my time but according to my dad and granda he was a pretty deadly striker. RIP.

Not at all, serves me right for copying the Sky Sports breaking news ticker!

[David]

Lisbon Lion, Joe McBride has passed away, aged 74.

A bit of a legend up Motherwell way as well. RIP Joe.

[FUM]

Basically, because of the Rangers finances, the games in the period should have been 3-0 walkovers.

 

Sorry, feeling very dim today - not had my tea yet. I'm not sure I follow - do you mean that these are games that should've been forfeited as the standard 0-3 for the state of their finances?

Yep, sorry I wasn't clear. There wasn't some Russo style swerves or Dusty finishes to the games in question.

Would be brilliant if there were. Thanks for that, though.

 

 

It's a complicated situation that has pretty much been forgotten about the last couple of months due to the liquidation and everything that has gone with it.

 

Rangers were found guilty of using an Emplyee Benefit Trust (EBT) in a manner that HMRC viewed illegal. Rangers appealed this decision and at the moment there has been no outcome to the appeal. If the appeal had failed and Rangers still existed then the SFA/SPL would have had a bigger problem on their hands than they have currently. Their rules state that any player paid by more than one contract is considered ineligible and therefor any match they play in is awarded as a 3-0 win to the opposition.

 

What the authorities would do considering Rangers had paid a lot of their staff via EBTs for nearly 10 years is anyone's guess?

 

This isn't actually fully accurate. You're allowed to be paid by more than one contract, however, Rangers didn't declare the payments and the rules state that all payments made for playing duties should be made knowledgable to the SFA/SPL.

 

That's why Celtic's EBT for Juninho would not be against any SPL rules, as it wasn't for playing duties but in fact a pay-off.

[TAFKAC]

The lower leagues ought to go regional. It's pretty daft that a team the size of Peterhead has to travel to Stranraer and QotS and the like when there are teams like Cove Rangers and Inverurie Locos right on their doorstep. The top league should be bigger (I think 18 is perfect, personally, but I'm open to other suggestions). The second level should be maybe 12 teams playing four times. Underneath that, have a pyramid, with maybe a bi-annual play-off between the lowest-placed team from each region in the second division and the top team in the regional leagues.

 

I think you are generalising but Peterhead and Queen of the South have never played in the league. I get your point though. I get the point about regionalising and to an extent it makes sense but on the other hand I don't really mind it either. The thing that irritates me is if you get Elgin v Stranraer or vice versa right in the depths of winter. You get halfway up/down the road only to hear the game is off.

 

I'm in favour of a pyramid but obviously there are problems. Off the top of my head, there are the West Juniors, East Juniors, East of Scotland, North Juniors, Highland League and South of Scotland. Throw in whoever finishes bottom of the third/bottom league and you have almost got a nice quarter-final set up.

 

I'm not sure about the league set up. I agree the SPL/top division should be expanded and I think 16 could be about right but again I'm open to other suggestions. Change is needed though. I'd try to somehow get all the footballing bodies slimmed down too.