WCW vs. nWo Thread

[Fatty Facesitter]

You know what I'm thinking now? I'm thinking Family GuyPMSL was TOLD to make the Sting claim early, thus causing confusion and to make it look like a way to stir the pot up a bit. That's not a complaint by the way, it could even be a genuine error on his part for all I know.

 

I stand by my vote though. Current suspicions are telling me he's in on the nWo act. If he is infact WCW Sting after all though...we can't have such a lumbering oaf like family guy in the towns ranks acting like that.

 

So by saying that we can't have an oaf like Family Guy in the town ranks are you saying your WCW and not NWO?

 

Or am I trying to integrate with the town? A gentleman never tells.

 

I'm gonna defend Family Guy here, he's a good player in general and this seems to me like a very provocative comment - intentionally so.

 

This is my first mafia game, so in fairness I'd have no idea of who is/isn't a good player. In that respect, no matter how good anyone at these games may be, they pretty much have a clean slate with me. And it could well be a provocative comment, which is why it's caused suspicion with me in the first place.

 

However, to attack him in this way is incredibly short sighted as he can't defend himself due to the rules. And to say "we might as well kill him because he's an oaf" reads pretty scummy to me.

 

So if anyone says anything even remotely controversial, they are automatically considered scum? Call me passive, but you defense of PMSL is making me even more suspicious now. Me think the lady doth protest too much?

[Fatty Facesitter]

Forgot to add, I didn't realize about the ruling whereby PMSL couldn't defend himself, so I can see how I came across as a bit of a dick there. All in good jest, my dears.

[Ron Simmons]

Forgot to add, I didn't realize about the ruling whereby PMSL couldn't defend himself, so I can see how I came across as a bit of a dick there. All in good jest, my dears.

Fair enough, but can you now see why I saw what you said as scummy? He was in a lose/lose situation. You said lynch him because he's either scum or "an oaf" - he couldn't really defend either claim. If he defends the former he's penalized, if he defends the latter it's just going to be a tit-for-tat argument. I'm not saying forget what he says, obviously that'd be pointless. However, pushing to lynch him because he's "no loss" is silly anyway. In an ideal world we want to keep every town player alive, "oafish" or not. The scum are boosted each time a town player dies.

 

BUT, of course, he might not be town. We need to be careful either way.

[The Icon]

You know what I'm thinking now? I'm thinking Family GuyPMSL was TOLD to make the Sting claim early, thus causing confusion and to make it look like a way to stir the pot up a bit. That's not a complaint by the way, it could even be a genuine error on his part for all I know.

 

I stand by my vote though. Current suspicions are telling me he's in on the nWo act. If he is infact WCW Sting after all though...we can't have such a lumbering oaf like family guy in the towns ranks acting like that.

 

A lumbering oaf? Classy.

 

I'm hesitant to go on about the name claim, because I don't want to do or say anything against the spirit of the game, and rules Carbomb has laid out. I feel bad enough about cocking up the start of Carbomb's first modded game, and I'd rather not make it any worse. All I can say is I wouldn't have come in and advertise the fact I was scum if that was the case. I think this post sums it up better than I can

 

Snake's seems an obvious mistake but the Family Guy thing is a bit more suspicious. You've got to think that Sting has a powerful role so I honestly don't see what good he thought giving himself away would do for WCW. At the same time, if he is actually Sting, it would be a blow to lose him so early in the game

.

 

I'm not happy with the way El Nicko has started namecalling, and trying to start a wagon, so

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

[Chris B]

Forgot to add, I didn't realize about the ruling whereby PMSL couldn't defend himself, so I can see how I came across as a bit of a dick there. All in good jest, my dears.

Fair enough, but can you now see why I saw what you said as scummy? He was in a lose/lose situation. You said lynch him because he's either scum or "an oaf" - he couldn't really defend either claim. If he defends the former he's penalized, if he defends the latter it's just going to be a tit-for-tat argument. I'm not saying forget what he says, obviously that'd be pointless. However, pushing to lynch him because he's "no loss" is silly anyway. In an ideal world we want to keep every town player alive, "oafish" or not. The scum are boosted each time a town player dies.

 

BUT, of course, he might not be town. We need to be careful either way.

 

I partially agree, in the sense that I don't like the way Nicko pushed that, but at the same time, I rather agree with what he was saying.

 

He's either lying (in which case he's probably scum) or he's revealed he's probably a power role (on the basis that y'know...it's STING). I'm still a little unsure about the fact that he specified he was WCW Sting, as that seems like a redundancy unless he's actually nWo Sting.

 

I'm not going to vote for him, because I'm not convinced he's lying, but we shall see where it goes.

 

El Nicko Loco - you said that you thought Family Guy may have been told to claim early. Who do you think told him to?

[Ron Simmons]

Since we seem to be past the rvs stage already, and Aberdeen won't be facing off against Celtic anytime soon: unvote.

[Snake Plissken]

I thought this might be helpful to anyone whose new to all this (Shamelessly stolen from Mafiascum.net

 

1- If you're vanilla, don't claim that fact.

 

Perhaps it's believable, but the really disastrous consequences behind it is that the Mafia (who know you're Town) now have one less possible Town target who could be one of the powerroles (ie: Cop or Doctor), and that therefore gives them an advantage. The last thing we want is giving scum unnecessary clues. Necessary only comes when powerclaiming is the only way out of your lynch or we agree that partially or fully massclaiming is optimal.

 

2- No Lynch is a statistically bad idea right now, as agreed by many on this forum.

 

The mistake made by quite a few newbies I've seen is that they fall into the thought of "so often a townie is lynched on D1- we'd better get some concrete information before we make a choice on who to lynch".

Recalling that a lynch is the ONLY way to actually kill the Mafia in this game, No Lynching actually loses us a mislynch. If we try every time, at least it takes 3 screw-ups before the Mafia win. However, if we No Lynch at this moment, the game could end in as few as 2 mislynches. Weakening the town's only weapon is RIDICULOUSLY bad. Now of course, No Lynch doesn't always do dastardly things, so later on, we may put serious consideration towards it. For now though, most would contest it's a bad idea.

 

3- Take stances, be honest, and be opinionated!

 

The ultimate objective here is to see how people take stances and how they behave when certain situations arise (a claim, a massive wagon forming, whatever). Transparency is an incredible pro-town thing, and the more transparent you show yourself to be, the easier it will be to read you. Vanillas, you've got absolutely nothing to hide, so there's no excuse for lurking and being introverted about your opinions. Some members decide to take that approach, but it complicates the game that much further, and I believe it to be unnecessary.

 

In other words, don't be the one who just says "I don't know what to do, I'm not good at this game. What if I lynch scum?" and just sits in a corner feeling sorry for himself. That is ridiculously non-transparent. Also don't sit on the fence and say "erm, arm, hmm, he could be Mafia, but I'm not sure". Fencesitting is more a Mafioso's operating procedure. And even they should cut back on that.

 

4- Play to your win condition at all times. Remember, you win EVEN IF YOU DIE.

 

That therefore means you need to be consistently trying to get your antagonists eliminated. Scum outing scumbuddies can and has force-abandonned a game and probably will get you permabanned from the site. As Town, you're trying to vote for Mafia. Selfvoting and giving up is... well... anti-town, because you know for fact that the lynch is going to be on someone who's pro-town. That's not gonna win you the game.

 

5- Learn your arguing fallacies and avoid them as much as possible. Some common ones include:

 

WIFOM- a path of circular logic or one where reverse psychology can confound analysis of a statement.

 

Example: "Oh that guy got shot, and he was accusing X, so X is probably scum!"

"Nah, that's what the Mafia want you to think. It's clearly not him."

"But maybe the Mafia knew you were going to say that. It still could be."

...and this dialogue could theoretically carry on for decades. Avoid.

 

Appeal to Emotion (AtE)- For example, guilt-tripping players like "You'll be sorry to see me flip town when you get me lynched!" This usually implies a lack of inner resources to actually give an intelligent response as to why they shouldn't be lynched. Avoid.

 

I'd also like to point out that trying to argue while emotionally stressed, upset, or even ridiculously excited is sub-optimal. Clear, level-headed thoughts are ultimately what win out, especially since we play 3-week deadlines 'round these parts, so we all have time to think about it. Even if you are lynched, your statements don't die with you; we can always view them later. Keep your cool as much as possible.

 

6- Remember, we have several days! If you're emigrating from another Mafia forum, that's going to be a shock to the system, but we like that as it gives us plenty of time to digest what everyone's saying, intelligently come up with who should be the lynch, and still resume with our normal lives. That said, rushing the Day and being eager to lynch someone within a couple of pages is not a good idea. I'm not going to state a precise minimum of how much time we should use as it really does vary depending on how active we are, but make sure that you have a good sense of most/all the players in the game before you make up your mind that it's time to lynch or even put them at L-1 (that is, 1 vote away from lynching, L-2 is 2 away, etc.)

 

On the flipside, pushing the Day for too long runs the risk of dragging the game into an apathetic sort of state where scumhunting quality declines significantly. Again, if you're sure, you're sure, and the last thing we want is a game where we're dragging our feet trying to get anything done in this game. That's pro-Mafia and just makes for a forgettable game for everyone.

 

7- Special Scenarios:

 

- L-1 claims. When someone's wagon as at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) and someone wants to hammer (cast the vote that causes the lynch), the customary thing is for the would-be hammer-thrower to ask for a claim from the person they're about to lynch. They then state their truthful role (or lie if they're scum, of course). What to do with that claim varies, so I won't go into that yet, but it's the argument of last resort to claim. There are other scenarios such as massclaim where a role claim would come otherwise, or one of us may come up with justification for someone to do it sooner/later. This point I've added in recently, and it's admittedly fuzzy- as the issue of when to claim under pressure is too.

- Lynch or Lose- Comes much later in the game when a lynch would bring Town level or below with Mafia's numbers. In that case, scum will be able to quickhammer should they see a vote from Town on Town. Just be mindful that once you play a vote then, you're probably committed to it and its consequences.

 

8- Take all advice and player-provided information with a grain of salt.

 

While having informants like me is great remember that we may be scum- or perhaps just plain wrong. Ultimately, you have to think for yourself, and while scum won't (and would be stupid to) lie all the time, you have to be consciously thinking as much as you can about why your 8 possible adversaries are saying the things they are. Perhaps it's a misconception, a mistake, or flat-out misdirection. And that's what you ultimately have to deduce for yourself.

 

---

 

I could wish you good luck, but it's not the most important thing. Keep your eyes peeled for the liars, that's how we'll win, Town. Scum, I won't even suggest how you to play the game, that's for you two to decide. You know you need to appear like a scumhunter, not act informed, and not be the lynch, but beyond that, there's a multitude of ways you could approach this between the two of you.

 

It's game time. As much as I'd like to say we're all in this together, well, that would be a lie.

[Fatty Facesitter]

A lumbering oaf? Classy.

 

I'm not happy with the way El Nicko has started namecalling, and trying to start a wagon, so

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

 

As I said, 'twas all in good jest. Take it anyway you want to though.

 

As for starting a bangwagon though, I wouldn't say that's a fair comment. Can you blame one for thinking there's a great deal of mystery surrounding you?

 

 

El Nicko Loco - you said that you thought Family Guy may have been told to claim early. Who do you think told him to?

 

I think one of these stips from Carbomb is quite telling in a way:

 

- To re-create the tense and unpredictable atmosphere of the nWo storyline, some flavour may be game-related, some not at all. It's up to you to decide and agonise over it.

 

Whilst not flavour in itself, I think it's pretty telling that something along these lines is on the cards and I reckon it's something to do with Sting, for better or for worse.

 

Fair enough, but can you now see why I saw what you said as scummy?

 

Aye. But by the same token, surely just because a player says anything even remotely controversial (or in good jest, with the oaf comment), it doesn't automatically make them a scummer.

[Mafia Scum Scum]

There was a time whne nobody knew whether Sting was WCW or now so perhaps Sting is a miller.

 

For those new players, that means he is town, but if investigated by the cop his results will say scum.

[Mafia Scum Scum]

Ebwop: Damn phone auto corrected n W o and keeps putting it as now.

[The Icon]

A lumbering oaf? Classy.

 

I'm not happy with the way El Nicko has started namecalling, and trying to start a wagon, so

 

Vote El Nicko Loco

 

As I said, 'twas all in good jest. Take it anyway you want to though.

 

As for starting a bangwagon though, I wouldn't say that's a fair comment. Can you blame one for thinking there's a great deal of mystery surrounding you?

 

You based your argument on calling me an oaf, and essentially making out I'm a liability. That's something I take offense to, and find it scummy that you used it to disguise the fact you're worried about the 'mystery' surrounding me. I think the reason you're worried is you know I'm not scum, therefore you've made a calculated assumption I'm valuable to the town, and by proxy a danger to the scum.

 

There's a hint of rolefishing here as well, with all this talk of mystery. Hoping I'll clear it all up for you? You're not getting any answers about my role until absolutely necessary, when I believe it's in the best interests of the town to know, which isn't at the start of the first day.

[FLips]

Namecalling gets you nowhere fellas. Look at me and TMS in the last game. We completely killed the game with it and the town died back to back. It was pathetic.

 

I agree with Nicko in this case, though he handled it rather badly.

[Snake Plissken]

If memory serves no one knew Stings alignment at the beginning of the nWo thing which is why we got the Crow character. Until he joined the Wolfpac so he's either scum or third party if the storyline is to be followed? Either way I think we may have found our first lynch. Just remember Lawz and that took 3 game days to sort out.

[Mafia Scum Scum]

I don't think he is scum, but could be a third party character, maybe a vigilante as Sting used to just drop from the rafters and attack people but this was much later on.

 

I am prepared to leave him for today, see if scum fear him enough to nightkill him, whilst we concentrate on looking for what we know we need to find (Hogan, Nash & Hall).

 

If he is alive tomorrow, then we can try and get some questions answered, but we need to try and form an opinion on everyone during this first day and not just lynch someone because of what they could be when we still have time left to try and find one of the three scum members.

 

Don't forget, the n W o recruited more and more members as time went on, so they could be a cult.

 

Until I suspect otherwise, I will only put a vote on a lynch if I suspect someone to be one of those three or if we need to come to a decision on a vote at the last minute.

 

Unvote: Bristep123

[Chris B]

El Nicko Loco - you said that you thought Family Guy may have been told to claim early. Who do you think told him to?

 

I think one of these stips from Carbomb is quite telling in a way:

 

- To re-create the tense and unpredictable atmosphere of the nWo storyline, some flavour may be game-related, some not at all. It's up to you to decide and agonise over it.

 

Whilst not flavour in itself, I think it's pretty telling that something along these lines is on the cards and I reckon it's something to do with Sting, for better or for worse.

 

You think Carbomb forced him to roleclaim?