General politics discussion thread

[JNLister]

The show was in Dewsbury (West Yorkshire). I strongly doubt he'd ever appear in Liverpool, though to be fair that is one area the Sun carries little influence.

 

I did laugh at him saying tabloid newspapers never influence people's opinions:

[Aidancorrigan]

The BNP in trouble. It was only a matter of time that some of there thinking came up to catch them. They have been banned from having new members till they change the white only members bit!

[Chris B]

Of course it was. Total brain fart then. i used to live in West Yorkshire as well, so it's not like I don't know the accent.

 

He's still a cunt, mind.

[Gilpin]

Well I won't be voting Cameron. His Mrs is on telly now stating he loves to watch ALL three Godfather films over and over. I don't want somebody who can find rewatch value in Godfather 3 running the country. That's insanity.

[David]

Teachers in England should not be banned from membership of the British National Party or any group which may promote racism, a review has concluded.

 

The government commissioned the report last September after a leaked list identified 15 BNP members as teachers.

 

Review author Maurice Smith added his recommendation should be reviewed every year, which ministers have accepted.

 

BNP leader Nick Griffin welcomed what he called a "common sense review" and said it was a great day for democracy.

 

Members of the BNP are barred from the police and prison service.

 

Mr Smith, a former chief inspector of schools, said a ban on BNP members in schools would be "taking a very large sledgehammer to crack a minuscule nut".

 

"I do not believe that barring teachers or other members of the wider school workforce from membership of legitimate organisations which may promote racism is necessary at present," he said.

 

Such a move would be a "profound political act", he said, and there was no consensus on the issue.

 

He said existing measures to protect children and young people from discrimination or political indoctrination were comprehensive enough to mitigate the risk, although some could be improved upon.

 

Mr Smith said there was currently "insufficient evidence of risk" to justify a ban on teachers joining organisations such as the BNP.

 

He said: "Although police and prison officers are banned, to ban more than half a million teachers - or six million public servants - from joining a legitimate organisation would take this to a different scale of magnitude."

 

He also said any ban was likely to be challenged in the courts by the BNP.

 

Schools Secretary Ed Balls has asked for a further review of the measures in place in independent schools to prevent the promotion of racism.

 

Concern has been raised about independent schools staffed by unqualified teachers.

 

Mr Balls said he wanted to know if the current situation struck "the right balance between allowing independent schools autonomy, operating in accordance with their ethos and values, and protecting the young people attending those schools from teachers displaying racist or intolerant views or behaviours that could be harmful".

 

He said there was "no place for racism in our schools" but that the report made it clear that incidences of teachers promoting racism were "extremely rare".

 

British National Party leader Nick Griffin said: "Today is a good day for British democracy. Under a BNP government, there would be no employment prohibitions placed on anyone based on political beliefs.

 

"All teachers should, however, keep their politics strictly separate from the classroom.

 

"Several cases have come to light in recent times where leftwing teachers have been exposed promoting their own brand of politically correct politics in the classroom, with no action being taken by educational authorities. This is clearly wrong, and should not be tolerated.

 

"Schools should be fountains of learning and study not indoctrination centres," said Mr. Griffin.

 

The NASUWT union, which has campaigned to have BNP members banned from schools, said it was disappointed by the review's findings.

 

General secretary Chris Keates said the report was "an opportunity that's been missed" to bring teachers into line with police and prison officers.

 

"The idea that a person who signs up to membership of the BNP can simply leave these beliefs at the school gate and behave as a 'professional' when they walk into school is risible, " said Ms Keates.

 

"The report is woefully inadequate and littered with contradictions."

 

She said too much attention was paid to the number of incidents in schools, saying "one incident is one too many".

 

Conservative education spokesman Michael Gove said: "The Smith review fails to get to grips with the problem extremism poses to our children. BNP members and other extremists should not be teaching in our schools and shaping young lives.

 

"Head teachers and governors need to be given the powers they need to dismiss extremists in the classroom without having to wade through bureaucracy and, crucially, we need a much sharper focus on improving inspections to deal with schools that have extremist links."

 

Only six incidences of BNP membership by members of the teaching profession or governors were brought to the attention of the Department for Children, Schools and Families in six years, the report said.

 

In the past six years the General Teaching Council for England has taken disciplinary action over teachers holding racist materials or using racist/potentially racist language in nine cases. Three cases led to a teaching ban.

 

The Association of School and College Leaders welcomed the findings.

 

Its general secretary Dr John Dunford said: "Of course people with racist views should not be working with young people in schools. However, it is much less clear that there should be a blanket regulation on the issue.

 

"The aim should be genuinely to challenge young people to think for themselves and to form their own opinions rather than to promote a particular ideology."

 

The review into independent schools will report in September.

Source: BBC.com

 

I find the result of this review to be surprising.

 

Although I don't think that a persons political leanings should really affect their ability to teach a pre-set curriculum, I thought any teacher known to be supporting the BNP would have been banished.

[Dynamite Duane]

There's a programme on tonight about a proposed law to ban from the internet who those illegally download music and films etc. Could affect how some will use their vote.

[JNLister]

That proposal (part of the Digital Economy Bill) is very shaky as, while it may be legal to punish people for copyright infringement, it probably isn't legal to do it the way the government wants, ie simply after being accused and without trial or court appeal. A similar law in France was struck down by the European courts on those grounds.

[Dynamite Duane]

Thanks to a UKFF tweeter who tweeted #debill I came across this on the subject:

BBC News - Lords pass controversial internet piracy bill

 

Andrew Robinson, from Pirate Party UK, which campaigns on the issue, said: "The public will not respect a law that was quite literally written by the record industry, for the record industry.

"As it stands, the bill is fatally flawed, and fundamentally unjust."

Edited March 16, 2010 by Dynamite Duane

[patiirc]

Thanks to a UKFF tweeter who tweeted #debill I came across this on the subject:

BBC News - Lords pass controversial internet piracy bill

 

Welcome to the 3rd Great Firewall.. after China and Australia.

 

Iam sure if this was challenged, much as the French proposals were it wouldnt stand up in EU Law, Hey ho

 

 

Re the Teachers being BNP members Iam not sure political affiliation matters that much. Its a strict curriculum in most cases and lesson plans have to be set and agreed and then you have the constant monitoring by ofsted and reviews by peers. Politcal leanings ergo, are not going to be that massively influential, i would have thought?

Edited March 16, 2010 by patdfb

[WildSybianRider]

agree that political leanings shouldn't really preclude someone from a job, but would you really want a BNP member teaching black or Asian kids, or a Muslim girl wearing a burqa?

[Chest Rockwell]

Thanks to a UKFF tweeter who tweeted #debill I came across this on the subject:

BBC News - Lords pass controversial internet piracy bill

 

Welcome to the 3rd Great Firewall.. after China and Australia.

 

 

 

Umm. No. Stop being so reactionary. Have you read the article?

 

I don't necessarily agree with the proposition, but it is clearly about piracy; there's nothing there to give the law as broad a scope as what's happening in China and Australia.

[Happ Hazzard]

agree that political leanings shouldn't really preclude someone from a job, but would you really want a BNP member teaching black or Asian kids, or a Muslim girl wearing a burqa?

Can't see what difference it'd make. I'm sure there's plenty of teachers that are BNP voters already. If anything, a teacher that openly identifies as a BNP member is less likely to show prejudice in their job than one who keeps their views to themselves.

[Carbomb]

If anything, a teacher that openly identifies as a BNP member is less likely to show prejudice in their job than one who keeps their views to themselves.

 

How do you figure that one out?

[patiirc]

Thanks to a UKFF tweeter who tweeted #debill I came across this on the subject:

BBC News - Lords pass controversial internet piracy bill

 

Welcome to the 3rd Great Firewall.. after China and Australia.

 

 

 

Umm. No. Stop being so reactionary. Have you read the article?

 

I don't necessarily agree with the proposition, but it is clearly about piracy; there's nothing there to give the law as broad a scope as what's happening in China and Australia.

 

Yes, I have read the article, thanks.

 

This bit (especially the emboldened bit)

 

Earlier this month, peers defeated the government when they rejected a clause giving ministers the power to change laws on online copyright in future without the need for further legislation.

'Unintended consequences'

But their chosen replacement - a measure allowing courts to use injunctions to force internet service providers (ISPs) to block certain websites - also prompted criticism from companies, consumer rights campaigners and academics.

 

and unfinished definitions of illegal websites, would mean that the government as per Australia and China are censoring the internet for you. By stopping you viewing what they consider to be illegal content despite this being ill-defined in terms of this bill.

 

Would a website that contains images that broke copyright be banned or would sites in the traditional sense of illegal (hardcore porn etc) be banned? Who would make the differentiation?

 

Timely, this was on recently Panorama- Jo Whiley re Musical Piracy on the Internet just to further explore the issue.

 

Ill admit I didnt have much to agree with the programme and didnt like the 'Daily Mail Lite' attitude, but as a public broadcaster cant condone illegality then the show was always going to be of a similar position.

 

The BPI are money grabbing bastards though.. think not? Ask Calvin Harris

 

I forget I have to quantify everything on here.

 

 

@ Magic_Sparkle_Ghost Who would know? If a kid was being bullied by the teacher, picked on unfairly or whatever, the measures put in place ( inc those already mentioned) would pick them up very quickly. Teachers are 'watched' at every turn and a few of me mates dread it when they are to be marked on performance as it is that important. So I cant see how being a member of a BNP would be an issue per se in this instance. If there is something I have missed then please explain further.

Edited March 16, 2010 by patdfb

[WildSybianRider]

SharkWrestling - what bullshit.

 

patdfb - there's a difference between openly bullying a kid and not giving them the attention and support they need.

 

 

it's a bit of a slippery slope I know, but I disagree that teachers are moderated *that* much. They might be assessed a lot, but it's not as though every piece of homework is double-marked. Don't really wanna get into a debate about BNP / policies, and I am fully aware many BNP members might be more than capable of separating their private and professional lives, but like I say, it's not something I feel too comfortable about. Hmm, bit of a grey area, real head-scratcher.....