The Fortean/paranormal/conspiracy thread

[Loki]

That's always the line with ghost photos though: "The story goes...". The story goes that it's not my mate in a sheet dancing around in the background.

 

Let's talk UFOs!

[Kookoocachu]

How about the hoax alien invasion governments are planning to get the economy going again?

[WWFChilli]

Roswell is my UFO story, Unsolved Mysteries did a wonderful little piece about it back in the day. As well as a great bit on the Rendelsham Forest Incident.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7tYnCTZX8

Rendlesham Forest case.

[Astro Hollywood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7tYnCTZX8Rendlesham Forest case.

Rendlesham Forest is a load of old toot. Some blokes chasing around a lighthouse beam and a star thirty years ago has grown, year-on-year, to encompass tons of extra details, because everyone involved was desperate to become part of a new Roswell. Every year, some colonel or other remembers an incredible new detail, while getting stuff like the actual date wrong. It's interesting in terms of the 'live' tapes being a look at the psychology of people caught up in the moment, but it's been thoroughly debunked many, many times.

[WWFChilli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7tYnCTZX8Rendlesham Forest case.

Rendlesham Forest is a load of old toot. Some blokes chasing around a lighthouse beam and a star thirty years ago has grown, year-on-year, to encompass tons of extra details, because everyone involved was desperate to become part of a new Roswell. Every year, some colonel or other remembers an incredible new detail, while getting stuff like the actual date wrong. It's interesting in terms of the 'live' tapes being a look at the psychology of people caught up in the moment, but it's been thoroughly debunked many, many times.

Agreed, it's still a fun story. Some cases of UFO's I have noticed always seemed to have happened in Mexico or Canada. Any idea why that's occurring?

[Egg Shen]

The Travis Walton story was always my favorite, it legit. shit me up when i was younger, i was terrified for weeks when i first read about it. Its the first time id ever read about abduction, me and a buddy had our own little paranormal club and i scared the shit out of myself. The movie based on the story 'Fire In The Sky' is excellent too, underrated movie.

[Astro Hollywood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7tYnCTZX8Rendlesham Forest case.

Rendlesham Forest is a load of old toot. Some blokes chasing around a lighthouse beam and a star thirty years ago has grown, year-on-year, to encompass tons of extra details, because everyone involved was desperate to become part of a new Roswell. Every year, some colonel or other remembers an incredible new detail, while getting stuff like the actual date wrong. It's interesting in terms of the 'live' tapes being a look at the psychology of people caught up in the moment, but it's been thoroughly debunked many, many times.

Agreed, it's still a fun story. Some cases of UFO's I have noticed always seemed to have happened in Mexico or Canada. Any idea why that's occurring?

With Mexico, it's definitely a cultural thing. South America had these crazy cases pre-dating the 1947 Kenneth Arnold sighting, which was essentially the birth of UFOs, and they're heavily predisposed towards visionary encounters, with a big history of Virgin Mary sightings, and late-90s onwards, the Chupacabras. South America gets a lot of mass UFO sightings, which is a nice Catholic mirror for the 1917 Miracle of the Sun in Portugal, where 30,000-100,000 people watched the sun dancing around the sky with Jesus, Mary and Joseph.In Europe, aliens took the cultural place of fairies. People 'saw' and met fairies all the time in the middle ages, and even right up to the Cottingley hoax, people were still willing to believe their existence. Literature of the time is full of stories and reports of people who were kidnapped by fairies (hence the phrase "Away with the fairies"), had their babies stolen and replaced with a wooden doppelganger, or just hung out with them and had a bit of a dance. There are some fantastic field guides to fairies, written around the eighteenth century. Anyway, I'm rambling, but those stories are exactly parallel to the alien abduction folklore that took over during the twentieth century. Just switch 'fairy' with 'gray'. South America has the alien stuff too now, but before that, it was gnomes. Edited May 20, 2012 by Astro Hollywood

[Loki]

There were physical, observable reasons why the UFO craze really took off in the US postwar, though, in addition to what you've said. It's surely no coincidence that, initially at least, the sightings took place in and around the area of heavy aviation/nuclear prototyping that really kicked off with the influx of Nazi scientists after the war. We know that both the army, airforce and navy were testing rockets, supersonic planes, weather balloons, unmanned drones... all sorts of previously unseen objects that were floating around the skies over Nevada/New Mexico.Add in a huge security operation to keep that all secret, plus increasing paranoia over the activities of the Russians, and you've got a perfect cocktail of elements to create mass hysteria. People WERE seeing stuff in the skies, the government WAS (initially at least) keen to cover it up. Whether or not the whole UFO=Aliens thing became a weapon of disinformation in later years, I don't know. Sounds likely though.

[neil's bitch]

With Mexico, it's definitely a cultural thing. South America had these crazy cases pre-dating the 1947 Kenneth Arnold sighting, which was essentially the birth of UFOs, and they're heavily predisposed towards visionary encounters, with a big history of Virgin Mary sightings, and late-90s onwards, the Chupacabras. South America gets a lot of mass UFO sightings, which is a nice Catholic mirror for the 1917 Miracle of the Sun in Portugal, where 30,000-100,000 people watched the sun dancing around the sky with Jesus, Mary and Joseph.In Europe, aliens took the cultural place of fairies. People 'saw' and met fairies all the time in the middle ages, and even right up to the Cottingley hoax, people were still willing to believe their existence. Literature of the time is full of stories and reports of people who were kidnapped by fairies (hence the phrase "Away with the fairies"), had their babies stolen and replaced with a wooden doppelganger, or just hung out with them and had a bit of a dance. There are some fantastic field guides to fairies, written around the eighteenth century. Anyway, I'm rambling, but those stories are exactly parallel to the alien abduction folklore that took over during the twentieth century. Just switch 'fairy' with 'gray'. South America has the alien stuff too now, but before that, it was gnomes.

Just had a quick look, and those are very interesting! For what its worth, I had heard of a story from America, from a few hundread years ago in which a whole town aparently saw a giant "Serpent" in the sky, which suddenly evapourated/burst into flames as quickly as it seemed to randomly appear. I cant remeber the whole story, but it caught my attention at the time. Can anybody recall this at all?

[Loki]

I can't remember that one, though it sounds similar to sightings of dragons that are generally viewed as comet/meteor sightings nowadays.

 

I do find early UFO sightings interesting, particularly the airship sightings from the US in the late 19th century. The comparisons with the UFO craze of the 40s/50s is really interesting, as often the technology required to produce the vehicles seen is only 10/20 years away from being reality. It's like people imagine they see things that they are becoming aware could potentially be possible.

[DJ Kris]

That's always the line with ghost photos though: "The story goes...". The story goes that it's not my mate in a sheet dancing around in the background.

This thing with ghosts though is what would be considered hard evidence? Obviously you get the photos and videos that can be easily discredited as double exposure, and other logical explanations, but when you get the ones that can't. For example that photo with the man in the backseat of the car, surely all you can really have is the photo along with the witness statement that no one else was in the car?

 

I'm quite a fan of photos where someone can actually be identified such as a dead relative.

 

 

I find this one interesting from WWI. The story is that face belongs to an air machanic who had been killed days before the photos was taken. I would argue that there is enough of his face showing for those that knew him to be able to make a good identification.

 

EDIT: Forgot to actually post the photo

Edited May 21, 2012 by DJ Kris

[neil's bitch]

That's always the line with ghost photos though: "The story goes...". The story goes that it's not my mate in a sheet dancing around in the background.

This thing with ghosts though is what would be considered hard evidence? Obviously you get the photos and videos that can be easily discredited as double exposure, and other logical explanations, but when you get the ones that can't. For example that photo with the man in the backseat of the car, surely all you can really have is the photo along with the witness statement that no one else was in the car?

 

I'm quite a fan of photos where someone can actually be identified such as a dead relative.

 

I find this one interesting from WWI. The story is that face belongs to an air machanic who had been killed days before the photos was taken. I would argue that there is enough of his face showing for those that knew him to be able to make a good identification.

See you would say that, although I might say that it could be a double exposure still, and with a bit of blur in there, a relative might make a face out of nothing due to them wanting to see that person. (if that makes any sense).

[King Pitcos]

Did anyone here ever go the Knight's Cavern in Rhyl? I went as a kid and loved it, it's been closed for a few years so won't get to again, sadly, and my memories of it are somewhat hazy. But it was an attraction where you'd walk around several scenes of animatronics/dummies based on old myths and legends. I remember a changeling one (Astro's post above is what reminded me to ask) and a St George vs Dragon one where the twist was St George was some sort of demon with glowing red eyes. I'd love it if someone had more recent/cogent memories of it. It was absolutely cracking for a child with an interest in old monsters and legends.

[DJ Kris]

That's always the line with ghost photos though: "The story goes...". The story goes that it's not my mate in a sheet dancing around in the background.

This thing with ghosts though is what would be considered hard evidence? Obviously you get the photos and videos that can be easily discredited as double exposure, and other logical explanations, but when you get the ones that can't. For example that photo with the man in the backseat of the car, surely all you can really have is the photo along with the witness statement that no one else was in the car?

 

I'm quite a fan of photos where someone can actually be identified such as a dead relative.

 

I find this one interesting from WWI. The story is that face belongs to an air machanic who had been killed days before the photos was taken. I would argue that there is enough of his face showing for those that knew him to be able to make a good identification.

See you would say that, although I might say that it could be a double exposure still, and with a bit of blur in there, a relative might make a face out of nothing due to them wanting to see that person. (if that makes any sense).

What do you mean by "You would say that"? I actually forgot to include a copy of the photo I was talking about If you have a pretty vague looking photo then sure it makes sense someone might see a dead relative when infact it's just a dodgy blur or whatever, but in cases where the picture is actually reasonably clear, such as the one I've now posted above I think it's clear enough to identify the person.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DJ Kris

[chokeout]

Did anyone here ever go the Knight's Cavern in Rhyl? I went as a kid and loved it, it's been closed for a few years so won't get to again, sadly, and my memories of it are somewhat hazy. But it was an attraction where you'd walk around several scenes of animatronics/dummies based on old myths and legends. I remember a changeling one (Astro's post above is what reminded me to ask) and a St George vs Dragon one where the twist was St George was some sort of demon with glowing red eyes. I'd love it if someone had more recent/cogent memories of it. It was absolutely cracking for a child with an interest in old monsters and legends.

 

It was Sir John and the Denbigh Dragon I think. Growing up down the road from it I never really went apart from when it reopened