Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Sphinx]

No, I'm really not up for Kevin Steen anywhere near TNA. He does look a state and I think he needs a fair bit of polishing up. I hope WWE don't touch him either. In fairness, with WWE snapping up the other indy names, TNA might look to sign him so they have one of their own. I don't think they need him though.

 

Saying that, I weren't up for Tyler Black in WWE but at least he lhad a better look.

[ColinBollocks]

Indy wrestling in general seems to lack any type of buzz, or at least that's the perception I have viewing these threads from time to time. The only time folk seem that arsed is when there is a bit of nostalgia.

 

I suppose ROH and the likes were lucky that is took WWE so long to sort out their developmental system.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I wouldn't want to see Steen in WWE in that shape, but I dont give a fuck what he looks like if he shows up in TNA. A persons look should only be judged on drawing money and being a star and attracting an audience. Well, TNA have Hulk Hogan, Kurt Angle and Jeff Hardy and these fuckers dont draw either. My logic is, if Samoa Joe is on your roster with his lallies out and Sting walking about in his pajamas, there's a place for Kevin Steen.

 

Meltzer has said on the F4W Board that the Briscoes will be back in August if they cant find employment in WWE or if TNA doesn't make an offer they will accept. It looks like a case that now their contracts are up, they realise they best try and see if they can actually make a good living in wrestling. I could be wrong, but how the fuck are this pair going to make it to WWE? Their bodies are completely fucked and they are PR disasters. They'd make a cracking hire for TNA though. They'd fit in well there.

Edited June 26, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Mr Butternut Squash]

I was up to nothing and thought I'd have a watch of some ROH and check out the Best In The World PPV and, well, I don't know what I was expecting. It's still shit and boring. Mat Hardy's the best wrestler on the roster and he's somebody I've always thought was overrated. The only people that had any kind of presence (apart from Steen) was Elgin and ACH. Have WWE showed interest in snapping up Elgin yet? I don't think he'd stick out there especially now they've got a more fun version (Big E) Corino and the bloke that followed him were quite funny on commentary even if, in Corino's case, it was to the detriment of what was going on in the ring. I didn't bother with the main cos I can't stand the Briscos. Really don't want them near the WWE.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Mr Butternut Squash

[Vamp]

Indy wrestling in general seems to lack any type of buzz, or at least that's the perception I have viewing these threads from time to time. The only time folk seem that arsed is when there is a bit of nostalgia.

 

I suppose ROH and the likes were lucky that is took WWE so long to sort out their developmental system.

 

There seems to be a bit of a buzz (not so much on here) over Chikara, before and after the recent shitty closure thing. I've toyed with watching the odd Chikara show before as they looked like fun variety shows but given their recent bollocks I don't think I could be arsed anymore if they come back. Talk about getting stuck up your own arse too much. That's if it is a work.

 

I don't see why any promotion worth a damn, so WWE and TNA, would go anywhere near the Briscoes. They're morons.

[The Cum Doctor]

I thought Davey Richards looked better than he has for about... I dunno... five years at least. ACH's tag team partner was irritating as fuck. The Cartwheel Kick looked dumb the first time. I don't want to see it seventeen more times. Ciampa/Elgin was a lot of fun I thought. The Briscoe match was easily the worst of the three they had in ROH, and the No DQ match was hella dull.

 

I've at least enjoyed most iPPVs from ROH and this one had potential on paper, but it just didn't live up at all.

[Professor Paul's Bin]

I'd echo the comments regarding ROH not having anything exciting going on anymore. Another problem I find with the current product is the production values, they've improved but I prefer the style they used prior to 2011. I just feel that for the scale of the promotion it doesn't suit them or appeal to me. Another problem with ROH is the way the promotion carries itself as the self proclaimed real wrestling and having the best athletes in the world on their shows. Which are both far from the truth.

 

ROH standed for showcasing the best Indy wrestling but it has lost it's identity. PWG has taken over that niche and in my opinion I'd say they are outstanding at what they do. Continuing to go on about PWG; what I feel are one of its strengths in comparison to ROH is that they don't take themselves as serious and the product they are putting out reflects this. The wrestlers love working there and the fans are a good crowd. Not your insider CM Punk fans who live in their parents basement who are the worst sort of fans.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Twinn

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The wrestlers love working there and the fans are a good crowd. Not your insider CM Punk fans who live in their parents basement who are the worst sort of fans.

Or the ones who badger wrestlers on twitter about drawing ratinz.

[Professor Paul's Bin]

I don't feel like I should even discuss this issue with you anymore. It was a daft thing I did. I actually got the name off someone on here, so I'd like to take credit for it but I can't. Anyway you've been reported.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Report me all you want, it wont make your posts anymore self aware. And please never PM me again. Its bad enough reading your whinging on here.

Edited June 28, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Professor Paul's Bin]

It's been reported. That's the end of discussion.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Well stop PMing me then, you muppet.

[neil]

Calm it down the pair of you.

[gadge]

Just to add to the (completely accurate) "ROH/indie wrestling has no buzz" thing...

 

Ring of Honor 11th Anniversary - Chicago Ridge, IL - 2/3/13

 

Ah, Ring of Honor. A promotion I watched near-religiously from the 2002 beginnings, right up to the middle of 2011, when the buyout from Sinclair happened and soon after my interest fell away. My last full ROH DVD was Best in the World 2011, which saw Davey Richards defeat Eddie Edwards for the ROH World Title in a great match, but immediately there was a distinct lack of interesting challengers. In the aftermath of that event were a couple of nothing spot shows, then the first Sinclair TV tapings which, disappointingly, saw El Generico lose his ROH TV title in his first defence to the returning Jay Lethal. 2011 editions of Death Before Dishonor and Glory By Honor happened with little build up, then Final Battle 2011 was main evented by a return Richards vs Edwards match no-one cared about and featured that superplex spot that was rightly ridiculed.

 

As Final Battle 2011 was happening in real time, I caught up with my several month ROH DVD backlog, and with no interest in the remaining 2011 events, I stopped watching. As 2012 went on, I kept one eye on major ROH results, but chose Dragon Gate USA's live events over ROH during my WrestleMania holiday in Miami. Several months after the fact I saw the match where Kevin Steen took the ROH World Title from Davey Richards, but other promotions on DVD and live events here in the UK were giving me my non-WWE wrestling fix. Then tickets went on sale for Supercard of Honor in Manhattan over the 2013 WrestleMania weekend, and I found myself buying. I'm not sure why really, other than a desire to see live wrestling in the Hammerstein Ballroom. 2012 ended, and despite a Steen vs Generico main event, Final Battle went unwatched, but I was paying more attention to the results.

 

Enter 2013, and with changes in the booking regime, and my prescence at a hell of a live event at Supercard of Honor, I found myself picking up the 11th Anniversary Show to sample the up to date DVD product. What do I think now? Let's see...

 

The first thing that struck me is that the show is much better produced in 2013 than 2011. Video packages, decent graphics, more camera angles.. it's embarrassing that ROH couldn't even get all the cameras showing the event in the same colour before. The second thing is that when it comes to undercard talent, there's a bunch of new faces...

 

Silas Young vs ACH vs QT Marshall vs Mike Sydal vs Adam Page vs Tadarius Thomas - Apparently this Six Man Mayhem opener features six guys from a recent Top Prospect tournament. How Silas Young qualifies is beyond me. I was pleased to see Adam Page, who made a positive impression on me in my recent EVOLVE 11 DVD viewing. Anyway, this was fun once it got over a start that didn't really flow. There's an excellent dive sequence, with ACH getting the biggest of them, then Marshall's manager, the ever-entertaining RD Evans being superplexed onto everyone. ACH, who seems to be the standout of these guys, gets the win with a cradle DDT on Silas. Enjoyable opener.

 

Caprice Coleman & Cedric Alexander vs Steve Corino & Jimmy Jacobs - This Grudge match really is a tale of two tag teams. Coleman & Alexander get good reactions for an aggressive opening, then things quieten right down as Corino & Jacobs take over for an alleged heat segment. The big movez as C & C come back reignite the crowd, then Corino & Jacobs finally get a bit more active, before putting away Alexander with a nasty looking spike piledriver. Due to the SCUM storyline, I guess the Corino & Jacobs win makes sense. Reasonable match overall.

 

Charlie Haas vs BJ Whitmer - No Holds Barred rules are in effect here, due mostly to the ridiculous superplex Haas gave Whitmer at Final Battle, and fuelled by an angle shot at a car dealership. Credit to ROH for the footage quality of the recap package. The match itself resembles one of those comedy WWF Hardcore matches in many places, with plunder like baking trays and a rubbish bin, and a hilarious Charlie Haas vs Ladder moment in one of the corners. Of course, this being ROH, it does get more violent, with Whitmer taking not one but two suplexes through tables, once over the top to the floor, the other off the top into the ring. Naturally Whitmer kicks out of both of those to show how tough he is, then Haas kicks out of an exploder onto a ladder. The finish to all this? Whitmer starts drilling Haas with unconvincing knee strikes, and the referee calls a stop to proceedings. A terrible end to what was actually an entertaining albeit nonsense match for the majority.

 

The American Wolves vs The Forever Hooligans - I'm glad to see the Wolves reunited in 2013 ROH, for as a general rule I much prefer Davey Richards in tag matches to singles. The Chicago crowd are very into the Wolves reunion here also. There's history with Richards and Rocky Romero, former ROH World tag team champions in their own right, to play off in this one as well. Both Romero and Alex Kozlov have an interesting ROH appearance record, and this one off appearance is definitely welcome just for the character they bring. The match itself is good, though never delivered the fireworks you might expect. As far as being a "Dream Match", you could say I woke up happy, but couldn't remember any specific reason why.

 

Roderick Strong vs Michael Elgin - 2 out of 3 falls action here, to culminate what I assume is the end of an overly long House of Truth breakup angle. The rise of Elgin is one of the few things I'm sad to have missed by not watching ROH in late 2011 and 2012, but we don't get the epic I was expecting here. With Truth Martini banned from ringside, Elgin takes the first fall in just 2:00 after a backfist, 'buckle bomb and Spin City. Thankfully the second fall is longer and does a reasonable job of building drama, with good nearfalls both ways before Strong equalises with All The Landslides Birds Have Ever Seen at 11:36. The third fall is the big disappointment, with less than four minutes of further action before Elgin takes a clean win by submission when Strong taps to a crossface at 15:33. With that ending, this felt like an encounter better suited to TV. Not bad overall, but not great.

 

ROH TV Title: Adam Cole vs Matt Taven - Matt Hardy is on commentary for this TV title bout ahead of a scheduled shot at Adam Cole for him the next day at a TV taping in the same building. Truth Martini is also at ringside with his new client Taven, after they aligned in the process of Taven winning the Top Prospect tourney. Martini makes up for his absence in the previous match by being all over this one, particularly early on and also at the finish. In the middle, Cole and Taven have a decent Young Lions style match, though Cole blasts Taven with some stuff bordering on overkill without earning the victory. In the end though, it's Martini and the Book of Truth, followed by a variation on a headlock driver, that sees Taven shockingly unseat Cole as the TV champion at 13:35. That leaves Matt Hardy speechless, while the crowd react pretty well to the surprise title change. Overall this was an enjoyable storyline encounter.

 

ROH World Tag Team Titles: Jay & Mark Briscoe vs Kyle O'Reilly & Bobby Fish - First things first, reDRagon is a stupid name for the team of O'Reilly and Fish. Why does it have that stupid capitalisation? What does it even mean? Anyway, it's good to see Fish get a featured role in ROH 2013, as he's a solid hand who was underutilised in EVOLVE. The Briscoes appear to still be the Briscoes, albeit with more redneck kung fu from Mark.

 

The flow to the early stages of this one is better than the opening parts of the earlier Wolves/Hooligans match, albeit with less heat. Mark's Kung Fun actually gets the crowd going, then there's more noise as they move towards the inevitable crazy. O'Reilly takes a Doomsday Device off the apron to the floor, which is completely unnecessary. After some time to recover, though, O'Reilly is on hand for a second consecutive upset title change. Mark is taken out by an overhead suplex to the floor, then reDRagon (ugh) hit Jay with the Briscoes' own finish, the regular Doomsday Device, for a nearfall, then their own finish, a kick to the head/brainbuster combo (does it get more indie wrestling than that?) called Chasing The Dragon for the clean pin on the Next World Champ at 15:13. Good match, and I like the title change, but much like the earlier Wolves/Hooligans bout this doesn't figure even close to the top twenty ROH tag matches.

 

Hilariously, in their crowning moments the new champions DEMAND that Cary Silkin come in the ring and help strap the title belts on them. Have that, former ROH owner.

 

ROH World Title: Kevin Steen vs Jay Lethal - Lots of recap going into this one, I have to say I'm not bothered that I missed out on angles with Steen vs Lethal's parents. Thankfully, there's no family members in the crowd here and the match is worthy of the main event slot on the Anniversary show. I liked the brawling to start and the way they were then picking up the wrestling pace. Todd Sinclair taking a terribly contrived bump just past the ten minute mark followed by an immediate Corino and Jacobs run-in threatened to take this into TNA main event territory, but McGuinness seeing off Corino got a big reaction and a couple of good nearfalls out of Jacobs distraction spots actually increased the drama very well.

 

From there, Steen realises Jacobs is still making a nuisance of himself and tells him to go away (leading to a Lethal nearfall, naturally) and there's then a very good final five minute stretch. Lethal, while a decent challenger, is never a top guy, and only getting a two count from a sequence of FIVE superkicks, the Lethal Combination followed immediately by the top rope elbow completely killed him as a future challenger for anything. Steen eventually wins clean with an almost botched version of the Generico top turnbuckle brainbuster at 20:47. As finishes go, I liked that one. Good main event, though the show is pretty far from done.

 

The show closes with a SCUM invasion, as first Rhino takes out Lethal with a Gore as Steen looks on, then as a series of ROH guys attempt to make the save, SCUM adds several new members as Jimmy Rave runs in from the crowd, Rhett Titus turns on BJ Whitmer, Cliff Compton (the only guy I don't know) appears then finally Matt Hardy joins. Hilariously, the crowd cheer almost all the SCUM surprises, except for the final one, as Hardy gets the only genuine heat for the group, Corino then cuts an occasionally stuttering promo about evil triumphing over Ring of Honor, and first Jacobs then several other of the SCUM members struggle to rip an ROH banner to drape over Lethal in two pieces. Despite these slight issues with the execution, though, this is a good angle overall, mostly due to the sheer numbers creating a feeling that something major is happening.

 

Overall - While this was a mostly enjoyable reintroduction to ROH, with no bad matches as such, in 2013 this is a promotion for me that needs to grab me by the throat and say "You Need To See This". This show didn't do that until the main event, with good but not great action that didn't stick in the memory, and nothing in the way of interesting angles going on in the undercard. That said, the main event was a lot of fun, especially as I've not been seeing much in the way of Steen matches lately, and the closing angle was hot stuff.

 

To summarise then, I don't regret my DVD purchase, as the show delivered sufficiently in the ring that I feel I got my money's worth. I probably won't be returning to my regular ROH watching days though, not unless there's something in the next couple of events that really grabs me. Well, I had to buy up to Supercard of Honor didn't I, as a souvenir of being there? DVD run time is 2 hours, 59 minutes.

[Arch Stanton]

Jay Briscoe speaks out

 

Look at his fucking shoulder!!!