Boxing Thread

[wandshogun09]

Amir Khan vs Zab Judah will be shown on Primetime on Jul 23rd.

 

Juan Manuel Marquez is taking a tune up fight vs Likar Ramos on July 16th. He felt he needed a fight before Pacquiao 3. I don't know anything about Ramos, anyone seen him before? JMM should win its said to be a pretty low risk fight but if he loses he'll lose the Pac fight and the big payday so pressure's on.

[wandshogun09]

But it's another example of Floyd doing a disapearring act while Pacquiao isn't locked in a fight, and when he is, Mayweather pops up almost immedatley.

 

Yeah this is how it looks to me too. I actually would pick Floyd to beat Manny but it does appear he's making a tactical choice to make his comebacks when Pacquiao is locked into another fight. It's become the expected pattern now where Floyd is silent for months then as soon as Pacqiuao signs to fight someone else an announcement is made Mayweather's next fight soon after.

 

This reminds me of the build up to Leonard/Hagler where Leonard kept putting the fight off and even retired saying it would never happen. Then when he saw Hagler fight John Mugabi and have a tough war he thought Hagler was slipping and changed his tune and the fight was made.

 

I think this could be a similar situation and Floyd's waiting until he sees a fight where Pac looks beatable/diminished/older/slower. Then he'll suddenly want the fight made. It's risky though because who's to say Pac will slow down first? I imagine if the fight happens it will be like you say, when one of them has lost a lot of steam and the fight won't be what it could have been.

 

I can honestly see this fight never happening.

Edited June 10, 2011 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

if Carl Froch goes on to defeat Andre Ward would you say that Froch surpasses Joe Calzaghe's achievments in the ring? it's arguable that he has already (for me, he has)...but if Froch wins that it's gotta be the cherry on the top of the greatest run of fights in british fighters career. Calzaghe will always have the unbeaten thing going for him but there's no way that he boxed competition as good and as consisitently as Froch has.

[wandshogun09]

I think so yeah. I really wish Froch vs Calzaghe would've happened. I know there was a lot to lose for Joe becasue Froch wasn't as well known but if Calzaghe had won it would've been even more impressive for him to retire after beating a young top fighter and would have silenced the 'he's fighting has beens' crowd.

 

Froch is beating top fighters one after another and winning. It's amazing usually boxers take on a slightly easier fight after facing a top guy but he's facing the toughest guys out there fight after fight. I'd like to see him try to avenge the Kessler loss aswell at some point so he can say he's beat everyone he's faced.

[Taylorslade]

But it's another example of Floyd doing a disapearring act while Pacquiao isn't locked in a fight, and when he is, Mayweather pops up almost immedatley.

 

Yeah this is how it looks to me too. I actually would pick Floyd to beat Manny but it does appear he's making a tactical choice to make his comebacks when Pacquiao is locked into another fight. It's become the expected pattern now where Floyd is silent for months then as soon as Pacqiuao signs to fight someone else an announcement is made Mayweather's next fight soon after.

 

This reminds me of the build up to Leonard/Hagler where Leonard kept putting the fight off and even retired saying it would never happen. Then when he saw Hagler fight John Mugabi and have a tough war he thought Hagler was slipping and changed his tune and the fight was made.

 

I think this could be a similar situation and Floyd's waiting until he sees a fight where Pac looks beatable/diminished/older/slower. Then he'll suddenly want the fight made. It's risky though because who's to say Pac will slow down first? I imagine if the fight happens it will be like you say, when one of them has lost a lot of steam and the fight won't be what it could have been.

 

I can honestly see this fight never happening.

 

Exactly. What makes this Mayweather/Ortiz situation even more sad, is that a lot of people -many who should know better - , have fell into the trap of making the assumption that Mayweather is prepping for Pacquiao by first choosing to fight another soutpaw in Ortiz. Mayweather knew, that if he was to sign the Ortiz fight, that he could use that excuse (well, others have already done it for him now), make another purse for the taxman and then slide out of the Pacquiao situation at a later date.

 

Pacquiao is right when he says that Mayweather needs him more than vice versa. Pacquiao as already cemented an All-time-great resume even without having to go anywhere near Floyd. If doing what Manny has from 2000-2011 is not an ATG career then I don't know what is. In a fight, I would favour Floyd slightly, but historically, Pacquiao is a lot further up the chart than Mayweather.

 

Oh, and as far Marquez's tune up fight before Pacquiao....I think JMM is too much of a quality professional to get caught out, but I strongly disagree with tune up fights in any form, but especially in a situation like this.

[Brock Goldberg]

if Carl Froch goes on to defeat Andre Ward would you say that Froch surpasses Joe Calzaghe's achievments in the ring? it's arguable that he has already (for me, he has)...but if Froch wins that it's gotta be the cherry on the top of the greatest run of fights in british fighters career. Calzaghe will always have the unbeaten thing going for him but there's no way that he boxed competition as good and as consisitently as Froch has.

 

 

I would also agree. I really feel sorry for Froch though, P4P he's the best in Britain and World class without doubt but nobody knows it.

 

From the Pascal fight onwards he's taken on the best at his weight (Bute aside), ducked nobody and more often than not put on an exciting performance.

 

I just wish we would have been treated to Calzaghe/Froch before Joe called it a day. That would of made Froch, win or lose into a star before the birth of the Super Six. To be fair, Carl tried his best to get Joe to make it happen but Calzaghe knew he could go to America and have an easier time of it.

 

Steve Bunce teased/joked last week of a Calzaghe return, if a fight with Froch could be made............

[Taylorslade]

I have a massive amount of respect for Frank Warren, I really do. He has promoted so many great nights of boxing and he's brilliant at building a fighter during the early years of their pro career, even if you don't agree with how he does it (too many fights against blown up ex-contenders who's only decent success happened in weight divisions much lighter to the one in which Frank wants them to fight his prospects in)....despite these things, Warren is great at what he does and he's a hall of famer. In my opinion, the best example of his talent for promoting, was the brilliant show that he and his company put on at Upton Park that was headlined by Kevin Mitchell Vs. Michael Katsidis fight. At that time, Mitchell was fairly popular and coming off a fine win over Breidis Prescott that turned a few heads due to the fact that the general public knew him a the guy that chinned Amir Khan, but outside of that, the only known name on Mitchell's resume was former British super-featherweight boss Carl Johansen, but it wasn't very likely that Mitchell could be the Hatton-Esque ticket seller which he would need to be in order to fill a venue such as West Ham's headquarters. Despite all of this, Warren (with the noted help of some recognisable faces on the undercard), managed to get a near enough full-house, with such a great setup that gave the event a wonderful feel to go along with the electric atmosphere.

 

As you can see, I have great respect for Frank Warren. However, the column which 'he' writes in the Sun every saturday, is one of the things in the boxing community which I hate. Every week, it is packed with so much negativity from beginning to end that in my opinion, does a lot of damage to boxing in this country.

 

The Sun, is probably the biggest of all the tabloid papers, and I believe that a lot of the men who buy the paper are possibly either casual fans who turn in only for the mega-fights, or blokes who were fans in the past that began to lose interest when the sport declined for a period about 5-6 years ago. Either of those two groups could be lured back into the sport and be willing to pay their money or tune in to watch regularly, with a little encouragment.

 

My point is, how the hell will people be compelled to watch after reading FW's column every week (which I believe most of them do), as it is jam packed with him basically saying that every fight is shit and all of the fighters are shit....unless he is talking about his fighters and shows, of course. I realise that he is in business and will of course say only good things about his guys, but he contradicts himself all the time when talking about what certain fighters do, even when he has praised his own fighters for doing the same.

 

In yesterday's column, he gives Carl Froch a little bit of praise for his accomplishments in recent years, yet he seemed to be having a heart attack over the fact that Eddie Hearn hailed Froch as one of Britain's best ever fighters or even the best. I don't agree with Hearn on the latter, but Froch has been on a great run that is quite un-paralleld in British boxing history. For me, Froch is definatley nowhere near the likes of Ted Kid Lewis and Jimmy Wilde etc, but he is further up the chart than Calzaghe, who was and is massively overrated, in my opinion. If Froch was signed to FW promotions, then you can bet your ass that he would be saying all of these things. I know that he needs to push his fighters,rather than others, but if you are going to write a full page about a guy who can do with every bit of positive press to make up for lost time, then you don't spend the majority of the ink on saying negative shit about him.

 

Froch is on a roll right now that should be celebrated, and should not have potential fans just looking the other way because Warren practically told them not to bother watching.

 

David Haye is another example that highlights Warren's hypocracy. After slaughtering Enzo Macarrinelli (please retire, by the way), Frank Warren went on like a man possessed in trying to land Haye's signature on a contract, even going as far as offering an incredible signing on fee in the dressing room after the fight. The next week in Warren's column, of course Haye was the next great fighter etc etc, couldn't praise him enough. Haye, though, hilariously declined stating ;

 

"We thank Frank for sacrificing Maccarinelli, but we'd feel immense guilt if we took any more free money from Sports Network. I have a hard enough time sleeping at night as it is."

 

Of course, in the next column, Haye was chinny, too small, crap skills, overrated etc, and he claimed that the only plans he had in mind for him were to get him the easiest possible fights no matter how bad, but make a ton of money off the back of Haye's infamous PR antics. Yeah.

 

It doesn't sound like much, a column in a newspaper. But when the average person on the street, week in and week out read stuff like ; "the standard in boxing is awful now", "my old mum could flatten the Heavyweights right now" etc etc, it has a lasting effect. If the man on the street constantly hears that the HW division is fucking shocking, then they will believe it, and when a great fight does come up in that division, they wont bother, because FW told them it's all wank.

 

Let's say a young American heavyweight comes around, looks fucking amazing in the ring and basically has everything, and builds a record up towards a fight with our own David Haye (who for the sake of argument, beat both Klits in spectacular fashion and is undisputed champ), and everyone in the boxing trade is going absolutley gaga over it because it's such a good fight historically and artiscly. Now imagine FW writes column after column and one on the morning of the fight about how shit they are compared to Ali, Frazier, Johnson, Louis, Holmes an Tyson, and that they wouldnt last 1 round with any of the legends of the past, and declares the division still dead and rotting, even though we have this all-time cracking fight in our hands. It takes the shine off it.

 

I'm not saying that the division is great by any means, the majority of it is wank, but that old attitude of "Aint what it used to be", is suffocating the sport. Everybody needs to wake up and realise that the heavyweights in previous era's were special, and especially the 1968-1977 era was a period that wont be repeated. The HW division was a mess when Clay/Ali won the title for the first time, the second Liston fight was a shambles. Joe Louis had the famous "Bum of the month club" and the initial group of contenders that Tyson inherited for a short while were shit aswell, but because they just enjoyed Tyson doing what he was doing, they let him run with it and it wasn't long before good contenders started coming about for him. If all the reporters done what they do now and just badgered him with shit like "how come you aint as good on your feet as Ali?", "How come you've never had to dig deep and endure a full-distance war like Ali/Frazier 3? " etc etc.

 

They need to drop all of the negativity and just enjoy what we have, Haye Vs any Klit is a monster fight. Just enjoy those fights and let it work itself out, and within 5 years, some new, quality contenders will eventually flow in and make the numbers up so there wont be just 3 good fighters in the division and the rest being shit.

 

That was a rant, but I get fucking pissed off , man!

 

The link to Frank Warren's annoying article. Tip of the iceberg.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Taylorslade

[David]

Victor Ortiz? That's a good fight!

You're joking, right?

Nope, I think it'll be a decent scrap. I've just resigned myself to the fact that Mayweather vs Pacquiao will never happen.

[Sergio Bellend]

I absolutely despise Warren, the way he conducts himself, everything. He is a vile little cretin.

 

Where to start? Years of fobbing the public off with bogus WBU 'world' title fights, constant inevitable late pull-outs of fighters that mean a Warren card is never remotely how it was first scheduled, and the way he has Sky wrapped around his finger to put any old bullshit on PPV probably piss me off the most. That time when he moved the Khan v Kotelnik card from London (after I'd already paid for a hotel) to Manchester because it had hardly sold any tickets, and then one man and his dog watched it at the MEN did please me though.

 

I think you are giving him too much credit for the Mitchell v Katsidis fight Taylor. There weren't loads there-about 15k max I think-and it was your typical football fan crowd. While there was a bit of a novelty to the evening, it was an abysmal card full of mismatches from start to finish with a main event for a phoney 'world' title. Admittedly I suppose it was a pretty good crowd, as he'd have never got that much in a standard arena for that fight, and a fair few there had probably never heard of Mitchell either before or since, so I suppose you can't knock that too much.

 

I think his actions in 2008 some up how much of a 'man' he is. Sending Sports Network in to administration when he threw a paddy that Setanta had signed up Hayemaker Promotions, and when he owed Calzaghe an absolute fortune was a despicable act. Because of that, Joe C never got a penny of what he was owed, and Setanta's contract with him was void, meaning he could sign up with Sky, and put Khan on Box Office.

 

And don't even get me started on his newspaper column Thankfully you covered that Taylor

 

Now that Eddie Hearn has got interested in boxing, the sooner he becomes the dominant force in British boxing promoting the better in my book.

[Gooner]

There is no way Floyd can be inactive for a year, come back and fight Pacquiao from the offset. If the Ortiz who beat Berto shows up, it will be a tough fight for Mayweather and he needs to be careful. Whether if both he and Pac win means they get it on, well who knows. The main sticking point is the drug testing and right now it doesnt seem like that will change.

 

I'm looking forward to Khan/Judah. Judah has gotten himself back in the mix and has looked more like himself in recent fights. He has the boxing skills to cause Khan a lot of problems, I'm expecting a close fight.

[Taylorslade]

Victor Ortiz? That's a good fight!

You're joking, right?

Nope, I think it'll be a decent scrap. I've just resigned myself to the fact that Mayweather vs Pacquiao will never happen.

 

Yeah it is a good fight. At first I was pissed, I still am a little, because I'm in no doubt that Floyd is delaying this fight as long as he can until Pacquiao has started to show real signs of deteriation. I'm definatley not one of those "floid iz scarred" idiots or "manee iz on drugz" fools, i've gave both fighters the benefit of the doubt throughout this whole process, which is now almost 3 years long. Who's telling the truth and who's lying can never really be determined in situations like this in boxing, unfortunatley, but the only thing I'm certain of is something which I've gone over before; everytime Pacquiao is free to negotiate, Floyd seems to disappear from the face of the Earth, however, when he is contractually tied up, Mayweather IMMEDIATELY surfaces and taunts Pacquiao and says he#s ready to fight but Pacquiao wouldn't take the tests etc. it's happened more than once and it leads me to believe that he really doesn't want this fight, not right now anyway. A few weeks ago, a he done an interview which was filmed in his garage, or at least a storage room next to his home where he keeps all of his gloves, shorts, gowns etc that he uses in his fights. Anyway, he showed an orange and black set of fur and leather shorts an gown which he said he had made for the Pacquiao fight. He may very well of had those made for that fight but it is hardly solid evidence that Pacquiao doesn't want to fight. In the same video, Mayweather claimed to have "a contract which I (mayweather) signed that included the testing I wanted, but Manny wouldn't sign at the last minute", that he said he would show to the world. That was about 5 weeks ago, now I don't know about anyone else, but if I had such a contract and was the one who wanted the fight yet was being shown to be otherwise, then I would show that, certainly before showing an outfit that doesn't prove anything. Anyway, I'm leaving that subject alone now because Im sick of going over it, and it's fucking retarded that two of the finest fighters on planet earth can't come together for a fight that would be the biggest of the modern-era and the biggest money maker of all time and a whole other load of acolades.

 

 

-----

 

Changing subjects, it seems that the heat between Amir Khan and Sky Sports seems to be turning into a bigger issue than what most thought it would be. Sky and Khan have been going back and forth since the Malignaggi fight (which ended up on ITV) over problems that primarily revolve around Team Khan's infamous greed. For anyone unaware of that, Khan's purse is not the only problem, if it were then Sky would oblige without quarrel, but Team Khan (excluding training team of Roach and Ariza and Golden Boy) is made up of more than a few of Khan's family members who ask for large sums of money and in a situation like that, fights no matter how big or small, have to be Pay-per-view ventures to ensure that everyone gets the money they want. Because of that, the undercard of Khan's shows are very poor indeed, it wasn't so bad for his last two fights with Frank Warren, but the Mcloskey undercard was especially poor, and got worse after a number of pull-outs. Sky were absolutley right to pull it from PPV to one of their other channels, but that wasn't good enough for team Khan who used the excuse that Sky sports 3 and 4 werent big enough for Khan and they took their fight to PrimeTime, unsurprisingly a PPV outlet....after Sky had promoted the hell out of the fight through Ringside, Between the ropes, Sky sports news and their vast TV advertising capabilities. Khan-Mcloskey done well on Primetime and Team Khan felt advocated, yet anyone can see that it was Sky's promotional qualities that pushed the fight that switched at the very last minute to the other channel. Strangley, when it was announced that the Mcloskey fight would be on Primetime, Khan stated that Sky did not want a future Khan V Timothy Bradley fight either, even though the network had built the potential fight through many of it's programmes, and even bought fights they normally would not, with the sole purpose of building the Khan-Bradley fight, it seemed Khan had an agender.

 

Another row has broken out between Team Khan and Sky, after the TV giant, rather bravely said no to Khan Vs Judah. This time, Khan's US backers Golden Boy, have made strong threats which ulitmatley amount to blackmail, promising that if Sky refuse Khan's fights then no more Golden Boy Promotions fights will be offered to Sky. I commend Sky for taking such a position against Team Khan, as these are tough times for the general public and I'm glad they have put their foot down. The truth is, that yes, Sky do make a lot of money from boxing, but they also put massive effort into their coverage of the sport, which is improving rapidly. The amount of boxing programming on Sky has dramatically improved since 1 year ago, even more so 2-3 years ago, and it's unfortunate that Team Khan think they can come in and ask for any price they like from a broadcaster which puts a vast amount into the British boxing scene from David Haye, all the way down to the excellent British title fight which we saw on Saturday night from Liverpool. It is an even bigger shame, when you compare the effort that Sky put in, and compare it to the fact that BBC will not even show the sport. Certain channels will no doubt pick up the pieces of the Sky-Khan-GBP fallout, yet none of those such channels will put in the kind of effort which Sky have and continue to do. Sky have some great fighters signed and big fights on the horizon. I feel that even if it takes a while, that Khan and GBP will at some point come cap in hand and realise their mistakes.

 

I would also like to remind everyone, that Amir Khan - the same fighter who has stated that "Sky has gave me no backing whatsoever and have shown me no loyalty or belief at any stage"....

 

That is the same Amir Khan which Sky ultimatley said "No" to the David Haye Vs Wladimir Klitschko fight that was proposed for April this year, and had to be scrapped. Why? because Sky Sports had kept that date for Amir Khan and wouldn't budge on the matter, subsequently recieving the wrath of the boxing world for a few weeks. They done that, even though Khan hadn't even announced an opponent yet and wouldn't for another month. I'd say that qualifies as "belief" and "loyalty". Certainly when no one outside of Bolton would of battered an eyelid over Khan being left without a TV date, it would of been a minor sacrifice in the eyes of many.

 

 

Khan and GBP Vs Sky

 

 

There is no way Floyd can be inactive for a year, come back and fight Pacquiao from the offset. If the Ortiz who beat Berto shows up, it will be a tough fight for Mayweather and he needs to be careful. Whether if both he and Pac win means they get it on, well who knows. The main sticking point is the drug testing and right now it doesnt seem like that will change.

 

Floyd spars weekly at least, without fail. And why has he been inactive for so long? It's his own fault, he should of been doing this months ago. Oh and the legal issues which were supposed to be keeping him out of the ring have vanished all of a sudden. Mayweather is normally inactive but this is especially long even for him.

 

There is no issue with Drug testing, don't believe it. Pacquiao agreed to Mayweather's demands in the negotiations that were held around this time last year, when everything went quiet and Mayweather's best friend Leonard Ellerbie came out and sai that there were no negotiations happening to start with, which was one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in 20 years of boxing. These negotiations which "never happened", are the same ones swhich Mayweather now claims he has a contract from.

[jimufctna24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEl_FgAw5g

 

Haye vs Klitchsko face off

 

Quote of the video "I have a fucking hard on right now"

[Mr Lawrence]

Watched that this morning, think Haye comes across as a bit of a dick and Wlad dignified as normal. I read on a boxing forum it was filmed 6 weeks ago apparently.

This match could go so many ways. Haye talks about a dog fight and knockout etc... but he did that with Valuev as well. I hope Haye doesnt fight this like he fought Valuev, i really hope he goes for it early, it will make it such a more interesting fight.

Although Haye says he is retiring in October, if he beat Wlad in style i could definately see him fighting Vitali as i think the money would be to much to turn down especially with the Yanks being interested in him if he did win in style.

 

ESPN Classics is showing some top fights at the moment, watched Foreman v Holyfield lastnight. Holyfield got a unanimous decision but it definately wasn't a walkover. Athough i don't really like Ali, it made me think how good he must have been, the fact that he done an in shape younger Foreman some 16 or 17 years prior to this fight in more style than Holyfield did.

 

a great hagler hearns doc - can't believe hagler didnt get his first title shot until his 50th fight.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Mr Lawrence

[Egg Shen]

well Ryan Rhodes got smashed

 

on a happier note, ive found a bar showing the Haye/Klitschko fight in Milton Keynes next weekend so hopefully i can get there and i wont miss it! (poxy Foo Fighters gig!)

[mikey]

What time is Haye/Klitschko on?