Boxing Thread

[Mr Lawrence]

Groves article and Interview - classic saying what is it? best of 5?

 

George Groves fulfilled his promise to end James DeGale's unbeaten record with a contentious majority-decision win over his bitter rival at a raucous O2 Arena on Saturday night.

 

The build-up to the British and Commonwealth super-middleweight title contest was dominated by spiteful bickering and goading between the unbeaten former amateur team-mates.

 

DeGale, the 2008 Olympic gold medalist, had vowed to avenge his defeat by Groves in the 2005 ABA championships but lightning struck twice as two judges made Groves the winner by a single point and the other had it level.

 

The former Dale Youth ABC team-mates had at one point seemed unlikely to meet until much further down the road, but such is the ill-feeling between them they made the fight happen sooner rather than later.

 

DeGale (10-0, 8KOs) came into the fight as favourite against the marginally more experienced Groves (12-0, 10KOs), largely because of the form shown in their most recent championship-level contests when DeGale stopped quality British champion Paul Smith and Groves struggled against Kenny Anderson.

 

A crowd of 19,000 gave Hammersmith's Groves a much warmer reception than divisive DeGale was afforded.

 

Harlesden's DeGale is used to being booed, though, and seemed to keep his cool in the early stages, edging a tentative opening round and finishing it with a strong one-two which was the best work of the round.

 

Groves improved in the second, during which DeGale was warned for use of the shoulder up close. DeGale produced perhaps the best work though as a left-right-left combination up close landed solidly.

 

Groves was trying to out-box the boxer and largely avoiding punishment, but was caught by a left hand early in the third and a hard right two minutes later.

 

Groves had a superb fourth, keeping faith with his tactics to land a right over the top and as the round wore on, two stiff right counters. DeGale landed a good right jab of his own but Groves finished strongly.

 

A very cagey sixth was edged by DeGale, who came out of a brief exchange better with a winged left and landed a straight left on the nose towards the round's conclusion.

 

For the most part it was Groves who looked quicker and sharper but when DeGale had his moments - such as a glancing but powerful left-right double at the end of the seventh - they were more eye-catching.

 

DeGale's promoter Frank Warren looked concerned at ringside.

 

In the ninth both men were cut over the left eye and DeGale took the round, finishing with a superb right jab followed by two hard southpaw lefts, arguably the fight's best action to that point.

 

Groves was also cut under his right eye but DeGale's was worse. The fight was hotting up as Groves took the 10th with three excellent minutes, jabbing and hammering home rights.

 

Groves was bloodied further in the 11th from a nasty head clash and DeGale won the round by upping his aggression and clubbing home blows.

 

DeGale was cut under the left eye in the final session but it was immaterial by then, the two men trading leather right to the final bell.

 

The excitement continued as the verdict was announced, Richie Davies calling it a 115-115 draw but Dave Parris and John Kean awarding it to Groves 115-114.

 

Groves was content to prove the doubters wrong and claimed he would be willing to fight DeGale again.

 

"Everyone was raving about him. Only two favoured me in a boxing news poll, but I have self belief," he told BBC Five Live.

 

"It feels good. I knew I'd won. I knew I'd done enough."

 

He added: "I will fight him again yeah if everything is all right and it's the right way. But now I have beaten him twice."

 

A disappointed DeGale disputed the judges' decision, saying: "I'm the champion. What am I to do? That's b******t."

[wandshogun09]

Some decent fights coming up;

 

Sebastian Zbik vs. Julio Cesar Chavez - June 4th

Carl Froch vs. Glen Johnson - June 4th

Mikkel Kessler vs. Mehdi Bouadla - June 4th

"Prizefighter" series - June 7th

Felix Sturm vs. Matthew Macklin - June 25th

Wladimir Klitschko vs. David Haye - July 2nd

Ricky Burns vs. TBA - July 16th

Amir Khan vs. TBA - July 23rd

Vitali Klitschko vs. Tomasz Adamek - Sept 10th

Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez - Nov 12th

 

yeah looking forward to them. Especially Wlad/Haye, Froch/Johnson and Pac/Marquez 3. Macklin/Strum could be a good one too.

[David]

I'm thinking of making the trip to Liverpool for the Ricky Burns fight. Anyone here from the area?

 

What arena are they likely to use? And which hotel is best situated?

[TildeGuy~!]

Oscar De La Hoya, the retired legendary boxer whose moniker the "Golden Boy" symbolized his pristine image, checked himself into a rehabilitation center in California, according to a report.

 

De La Hoya, 38, responded over the weekend to a TMZ.com story that reported he was in rehab for substance abuse. The written statement didn't directly confirm that De La Hoya was in rehab, but acknowledged that the former boxer was struggling with "issues" and that he had "flaws."

 

"Throughout my career and my life, I have always met all challenges head-on, and this is no different," the statement read. "I am confident that with the support of my family and friends, I will become a stronger, healthier person."

 

The Mexican-American fighter, who retired in 2009, had a stellar career. He finished with a 39-6 record, including 30 knockouts.

 

His last bout came against Manny Pacquiao in 2008, an eighth-round technical knockout defeat.

 

De La Hoya's alleged rehab stint isn't his first De La Hoya made headlines outside of the ring. In 2007, photos of the boxer were leaked that purported to show De La Hoya, accompanied by a woman who wasn't his wife, dressed in women's clothing.

 

The following year, the former exotic dancer who leaked the pictures dropped a $25 million lawsuit after experts revealed that the photos were doctored.

[Cousin Jim Bob]

I'm thinking of making the trip to Liverpool for the Ricky Burns fight. Anyone here from the area?

 

What arena are they likely to use? And which hotel is best situated?

 

Its on at the Echo Arena. Any of the hotels in the Albert Dock would be perfect as its right next to the arena. Crowne Plaza is decent and very close too.

[David]

I'm thinking of making the trip to Liverpool for the Ricky Burns fight. Anyone here from the area?

 

What arena are they likely to use? And which hotel is best situated?

Its on at the Echo Arena. Any of the hotels in the Albert Dock would be perfect as its right next to the arena. Crowne Plaza is decent and very close too.

Cheers fella.

[wandshogun09]

Hopkins from the Pascal fight t'other night

 

 

46 years old. He's now boxing's oldest ever champ beating out Foreman who was 45 when he beat Michael Moorer. Amazing.

[Frankie Crisp]

I'm thinking of making the trip to Liverpool for the Ricky Burns fight. Anyone here from the area?

 

What arena are they likely to use? And which hotel is best situated?

Its on at the Echo Arena. Any of the hotels in the Albert Dock would be perfect as its right next to the arena. Crowne Plaza is decent and very close too.

Cheers fella.

The Jury's Inn is right next to the arena itself and is a nice hotel but it's about

Edited May 24, 2011 by Frankie Crisp

[Taylorslade]

 

anyone know of any other HBO fight related docs? ive seen all the Legendary Nights series, and i highly recommend them. Then there's the Ringside series and Ring Life series. But are they other standalone ones like the Assault in the Ring one?

 

HBO - Joe Louis, America's Hero....Betrayed.

 

I can't find the whole thing on youtube, but I'm fairly certain that it's on Megavideo or something like that.

 

It's a great documentary focusing on how poorly treat the brown bomber was during his later years and the poverty he experienced in his old age.

 

There's also a good dramatization of the events surrounding what was possibly (and arguably still is) the most shrewd, lucrative and historically significant business deal in boxing history, going into the 1937 world heavyweight title fight between Champion James J. Braddock and challenger Joe Louis. It's called 'Ten Percent'.

 

Also, I'm not sure you would class this next one as an HBO documentary, as it is quite stylistically different to what most people recognise as an "HBO documentary" (things done in the vein of 24/7, Legendary nights etc), but it is listed as HBO and I'm sure they own it also. One of my personal faves, 'The Thrilla in Manila'. I'm sure we've heard all the stories about this legendary contest before, but this is a well-made documentary with plenty of great moments and even uncovers some new, quite incredible tales. In my opinion it is better than the critically acclaimed 'When we were kings' movie/documentary.

 

 

That's just a few but I'll check my collection later and post anything good that I find, as I'm sure I've missed some out.

 

------------------

 

Just a quick thought on the Pacquiao Vs Marquez fight, I'll go into detail tomorrow as I'm so fucking tired right now, but, I really do not think the weight will be an issue in this fight and people are making too much out of it. Marquez gave Manny two of the toughest fights of his career and all the trouble he could handle because of a few reasons. The main one and by far the most important was that Juan Manuel knows exactly how to set Pacquiao up, get him on the end of the hook and drag him into deep water. The 2011 version of Manny is without a shadow of a doubt a much, much different fighter than the one that Marquez met in 2004 and 2008, his footwork is incredible and more versatile than back then, his technique has drastically improved and of course, he has a formidible right hand now and can take you out from both sides now....He also seems to hit harder. However, he still makes the same mistakes as he did back then and Marquez can certainly take advantage of them and as he did in the first two fights...he can force Manny into making them. JMM has one of the best boxing brains in the history of the sport and if someone was to draw up a list of qualities to include in making a dream fighter to defeat the current version of Manny, then I'm certain that would be high on anybody's list. I am not entirely convinced that Marquez will beat Manny in this rubber match, nor am I certain of Juan Manuel's defeat. I am, however, quite certain that this will be a close fight and will somewhat resemble the Marquez/Katsidis fight in terms of tactics. I know people might laugh at that and say that Marquez will not be able to box on the back foot like he did with Katsidis and they will probably say that if Marquez does indeed use those tactics then he will take a severe beating and/or KO. Of course Pacquiao has much more power, speed and sophistication of offense than Katsidis, but I think Marquez will use his great ability to ride the big punches and ride the ropes whilst round by round chipping away at Pacquiao's body, this will take its toll and by the last 4 rounds Marquez will smell blood and sense opportunity and he will begin to turn up the heat, which will lead the two fighters into some seriously heavy exchanges. My intstinct tells me that Marquez won't win....but my head KNOWS that he will certainly get his chance to. Ultimatley, I think it will be during one of those heavy exchanges that Pacquiao's extra power, greater variety and that inate "alley-cat-instinct" which he has in abundance, will all come together and result in a couple of heavy knockdowns on Marquez, this time, though, Pacquiao won't let him off the hook.

 

See, guys....Kept it short and sweet haha. Ah so what? I enjoy playing out fight scenarios in my head.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Taylorslade

[wandshogun09]

Also, I'm not sure you would class this next one as an HBO documentary, as it is quite stylistically different to what most people recognise as an "HBO documentary" (things done in the vein of 24/7, Legendary nights etc), but it is listed as HBO and I'm sure they own it also. One of my personal faves, 'The Thrilla in Manila'. I'm sure we've heard all the stories about this legendary contest before, but this is a well-made documentary with plenty of great moments and even uncovers some new, quite incredible tales. In my opinion it is better than the critically acclaimed 'When we were kings' movie/documentary.

 

 

That's just a few but I'll check my collection later and post anything good that I find, as I'm sure I've missed some out.

 

Yeah I really enjoyed the Thrilla in Manila doc too and I agree it was better than When We Were Kings. The only criticism I have of the Thrilla in Manila one was there was a bit too much anti-Ali propaganda. I know Ali did go way over the top in the run up to the fight but it's a very one sided look at the event and nearly all the talking heads are from Frazier's side (except Ferdie Pacheco who was Ali's doctor and comes across as a right grumpy, irritable cretin in the interviews imo). Would've been cool to hear a more balanced view from both sides.

 

I'd highy recommend it though it's a great watch, really interesting.

 

One thing I always remember from this doc is from one of the DVD extras where they talk about Rocky which I'm sure I read was based on Frazier's life story (even right down to the bit where he's punching the meat in the slaughterhouse ). They ask why is there a statue of Rocky in Philadelphia (a fictional fuckin character) when Smokin Joe came from, trained and still lives in Philly to this day and there's no statue of him? It's gotta feel like a slap in the face.

 

I did come out of the doc thinking it would be nice if they could bury the hatchet and put it all in the past before one of them dies. Ali seems to want to but Joe's still (understandably) bitter about it.

Edited May 25, 2011 by wandshogun09

[wandshogun09]

Agree with you on Pac/Marquez 3 too Taylorslade.

 

I've thought about the weight thing and I agree I don't think it's gonna be that much of a factor. When you think about it even when Marquez was fighting at 135 he'd come into the ring at about 142-144 so the only difference here will be he won't have to sweat off that last few pounds for the weigh in.

 

Marquez came in on fight night at 145 vs Katsidis and Pacquiao came in at 148 on fight night vs Margarito. So I don't think it will be a big influence on the outcome.

 

Still got Pacquiao to win though, either by decision or late stoppage. Just think his pace and power now will be too much for a 38 year old Marquez but I think JMM will put in a good showing as always and give Pac a tougher fight than people think.

 

Out of interest who did everyone have winning the first 2 fights?

 

I had Pacquiao winning the first (thought the 3 knockdowns in round 1 and the 10-6 score was too much to overcome) and I thought Marquez won the second but you can't argue the scores. Both were really great, close fights.

[David]

If you get some prices and available hotels lined up and want a pointer in terms of location and nightlife, feel free to drop me a PM.

Cheers mate, I certainly appreciate it. I'll be in touch.

[Taylorslade]

Also, I'm not sure you would class this next one as an HBO documentary, as it is quite stylistically different to what most people recognise as an "HBO documentary" (things done in the vein of 24/7, Legendary nights etc), but it is listed as HBO and I'm sure they own it also. One of my personal faves, 'The Thrilla in Manila'. I'm sure we've heard all the stories about this legendary contest before, but this is a well-made documentary with plenty of great moments and even uncovers some new, quite incredible tales. In my opinion it is better than the critically acclaimed 'When we were kings' movie/documentary.

 

 

That's just a few but I'll check my collection later and post anything good that I find, as I'm sure I've missed some out.

 

Yeah I really enjoyed the Thrilla in Manila doc too and I agree it was better than When We Were Kings. The only criticism I have of the Thrilla in Manila one was there was a bit too much anti-Ali propaganda. I know Ali did go way over the top in the run up to the fight but it's a very one sided look at the event and nearly all the talking heads are from Frazier's side (except Ferdie Pacheco who was Ali's doctor and comes across as a right grumpy, irritable cretin in the interviews imo). Would've been cool to hear a more balanced view from both sides.

 

I'd highy recommend it though it's a great watch, really interesting.

 

One thing I always remember from this doc is from one of the DVD extras where they talk about Rocky which I'm sure I read was based on Frazier's life story (even right down to the bit where he's punching the meat in the slaughterhouse ). They ask why is there a statue of Rocky in Philadelphia (a fictional fuckin character) when Smokin Joe came from, trained and still lives in Philly to this day and there's no statue of him? It's gotta feel like a slap in the face.

 

I did come out of the doc thinking it would be nice if they could bury the hatchet and put it all in the past before one of them dies. Ali seems to want to but Joe's still (understandably) bitter about it.

 

Yeah, I think they made it with the idea of giving Frazier the limelight for a change as he seems to be treated as somewhat of an afterthought in most productions surrounding them. Myself, I don't really follow the opinion that Ali should be held up and heavily criticised for his conduct towards Frazier from 1971 onwards, but I do think that Joe was indeed very good to Ali, and Muhammad let smokin' Joe down, going beyond the borderline of promoting the fights between the two men. Looking at it from Frazier's point of view makes it easier to understand how he has became so bitter, I mean can you imagine, the biggest fight in boxing history (1971, MSG), and you won it convincingly, yet you are still treated as the b-side whenever mentioned, so much so that instead of pointing towards what was a masterful display of offensive boxing and a perfect strategy divised by Yancy Durham and Eddie Futch, instead people celebrate Ali's ability to get up from that booming left hook and subsequent knockdown in the 15th round, rather than Frazier's ability to land with that punch countless times during the fight prior to the last round. Ali is held up as some kind of demi-god, whereas Frazier is oft-forgotten. Not Ali's fault, but it's easier to understand when you think that Ali's face is nearly everywhere sometimes. The Rocky subject is another good example, the film has many things in it which were lifted right out of Frazier's life (The punching of the meat, running up the Art museum steps being the best examples), yet Joe gets no credit for it, yet Ali is often cited as the basis for the Apollo Creed character. I can certainly see why Ol' Smoke gets pissed.

 

Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali are permanently hyphenated with eachother, arguably the greatest sporting rivalry of all time. They elevated eachother to a level of greatness, the likes of which that were never seen before, and may not be seen again. Muhammad Ali meant many different things to many different people. The most famous and most instantly-recognisable man in the world, revered for his personality, charm, kindness and many other things. But to boxing fans he is beloved and enormously famous for his speed, of both hand and foot, bravery, punch-resistance, his fiercley competitive nature and in my opinion, often overlooked punching power. It was Frazier who brought all of this out of him. Frazier was a great fighter, one of the best heavyweights of all time and a man to be heavily respected for many things other than just being Ali's toughest opponent (with all respect to Ken Norton).

 

But the best tribute that I can pay to Frazier ; Muhammad Ali told the world that he is, was, and always will be "The greatest"....but Joe Frazier made him prove it.

[Taylorslade]

Agree with you on Pac/Marquez 3 too Taylorslade.

 

I've thought about the weight thing and I agree I don't think it's gonna be that much of a factor. When you think about it even when Marquez was fighting at 135 he'd come into the ring at about 142-144 so the only difference here will be he won't have to sweat off that last few pounds for the weigh in.

 

Marquez came in on fight night at 145 vs Katsidis and Pacquiao came in at 148 on fight night vs Margarito. So I don't think it will be a big influence on the outcome.

 

Still got Pacquiao to win though, either by decision or late stoppage. Just think his pace and power now will be too much for a 38 year old Marquez but I think JMM will put in a good showing as always and give Pac a tougher fight than people think.

 

Out of interest who did everyone have winning the first 2 fights?

 

I had Pacquiao winning the first (thought the 3 knockdowns in round 1 and the 10-6 score was too much to overcome) and I thought Marquez won the second but you can't argue the scores. Both were really great, close fights.

 

Yeah that's my point exactly about the weight mate. That is also the main thing which I get pissed off with when people bring up the whole Pacquiao and PED's bollocks, and one of the things they point to is how can Manny put on as much weight, effortlessly jumping through the weight divisions. They either don't know, understand or completely disregard the fact that Pacquiao was practically a Jr. Welterweight since 2005/2006, weighing in for Featherweight and Super-Featherweight fights under or on the limit, looking quite drawn in the face and pale, however on fight night his weights consistently shot up to roughly the same each time.

 

Concentrating on Pacquiao/Marquez fights....in their first fight in 2004 at featherweight, they both weighed in right on 125, however, on fight night they were a significant amount more, within 1lb of eachother ; Marquez at 136, Pacquiao at 137.

 

Fast forward four years to 2008, this time in a Super-Featherweight contest, Marquez came in at 130, Pacquiao 1lb lighter at 129, however on fight night Marquez elevated to 141, Pacquiao going up further at 145. When you look at it like this, then it's easy to see that Manny's been a Jr Welter for a few years now, and the "dramatic, in-human size and weight gain" doesn't seem so super-human at all. I really, really don't want to go into the PED debate, it's old, boring bollocks, but I just needed to get this part in.

 

And to answer your question, I had the first fight a draw, and the second fight going to Marquez. Watching the footage of the verdict being read out, it's clear to see that Pacquiao felt he lost also.

 

Good reason to have a third fight and settle it in the ring. I'm really looking forward to this fight and I think that while everyone is entitled to an opinion, I feel that those who are slating this fight as a mis-match are way off the mark and either selling Marquez far short, or just looking for something to complain about. Pacquiao won't be around for much longer, Marquez won't either, so let's just enjoy it.

 

And let's face it, great fights between great fighters are so scarce and I'm really scratching my head as to why quite a few people are so down on a fight which is reminiscent of the golden age of boxing, and it's also a fight which adds a new chapter on those featherweight glory days which had it's genesis in 2001 when Marco Antonio Barerra ended the prince's domination of the 9st division and took the baton and the grand stage which Hamed practically created for the lower weights, Barrera took the baton and for the better part of the next decade it was shared amongst Pacquiao, Morales, Marquez and Barrera, resulting in a featherweight golden age.

 

This fight will rekindle that flame, and even if it is only for 12 rounds, I cannot wait.

[wandshogun09]

Agreed on Frazier. I can deffo understand why he'd be bitter about it. Especially with the Uncle Tom/Gorilla comments and the death threats on his family. Ali certainly crossed the line there imo.

 

I remember I first saw the first Ali/Frazier fight not long before I saw the Thrilla in Manila doc and I was surprised that Ali/Dundee were acting like they got robbed. I know this goes on a lot in combat sports but I thought Frazier won that fight so convincingly that it was a ridiculous claim to make.

 

Barrera took the baton and for the better part of the next decade it was shared amongst Pacquiao, Morales, Marquez and Barrera, resulting in a featherweight golden age.

 

This fight will rekindle that flame, and even if it is only for 12 rounds, I cannot wait.

 

Yeah I've always wanted to see Marquez vs Morales just to complete that 4 way. Could rival if not be better than the Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran series of fights imo.

Edited May 26, 2011 by wandshogun09