The Dragon Gate thread

[Spatular]

,Apr 27 2005, 19:42] Looks like the main body will be made of of T2P graduates, with some X and the new class. This already has many fans calling it more interesting than current DG.

Yeah, those fans who never saw Toryumon X and haven't followed Dragon Gate since the relaunch, maybe. :DThey could have picked a much better date to launch, if you ask me. With free tickets likely to be available for Kawada vs Misawa and Kobashi vs Sasaki the night before and also in Tokyo, I can't see anyone but diehards showing up. And as for star power, no-one bought Ishimori as the golden boy the last time around, and Kondo's a heel. :(Thanks for the heads-up, though. I'll probably get more excited about it nearer the time.

[JLM]

If they sign up Sugawara and Owashi then I'll herald it as one of the best things ever. Also, [NOTHING] odering DG shows is good news, one of my favourite posters of recent weeks, keep it up sir.

[Guest JPaCyN]

Eh, Toryumon-X was a disaster mainly because of the super-lame gimmicks, with 60% of the roster being "minis" of the Toryumon Japan guys- and who's gonna come to a show to see "ripoffs"? Also for whatever reason, these guys weren't nearly as good as the previous two waves - Los Carros Exoticos and the Sato brothers stunk out loud, and as said already Ishimori for whatever reason didn't click with fans (he obviously wasn't ready, talent-wise, to carry the ball for a whole promotion either). These guys COULD work the second time around, as I've heard under new gimmicks the minis are ripping shit up in MPro -(Shanaou/"mini CIMA" is already being compared to Hayabusa on some forums, and Los Salseros Japoneses are highly praised.) Anything that gets Sugawara back in a promotion is A-OK by me, I'll def. buy this debut show.

[jae]

Hmm, English speaking fans really underestimate the attachment to T2P that a lot of Japanese fans had. The connection to T2P that d2p will have is enough to get a sell out crowd.Most of the DG fanbase came in during the T2P vs. Japan era. That is considered the peak of the Toryumon age, and while they did Korakuen sell outs and decent attendance before it, they exploded when Milano and Co. hit. Even if Milano doesn't participate there is enough power in Kondo/ex-Aagan, Ishimori, and the Toryumon nameI have to say I agree that I am more excited about this than I am anything in Dragon Gate at the moment. SUWA, TARU, and Milano are question marks. I expect Milano to arrive eventually, same for TARU. SUWA I'm not sure. With the 2-3 show per month concept, there is room for them to fulfill AJPW/NOAH/MPro obligations and still compete.Current DG is not interesting or at all progressive. d2p could be, which is why it is more compelling.

[Spatular]

Hmm, maybe I was too negative last night. I've got to admit that the prospect of Takuya Sugawara dicking it up again is very appealing, if only because I'm envious of his trousers. In fact, if they set him on Ishimori, I'd be very happy indeed. Owashi I can take or leave.

Current DG is not interesting or at all progressive.

That's harsh. There were several really great angles and matches in November and December, and since then they've been forced to concentrate on rebuilding and debuting new guys. It's definitely not as good as it was, but under the circumstances, I think they're doing OK. They'll get back up there soon. Have faith, man. :(Anyway, back to ranting about the shows. I'm currently halfway through the TV block before the Brave Gate show. The 2/3 falls OTG match in that show was excellent, but it's out on it's on as the best thing this year up to that point. The highlight of February was Michael Iwasa doing a comedy Milano impression.BxB Hulk's a bit of a disappointment after the awesomeness that is Shingo Takagi. He's graceful without being fluid and he's more determined to impress than he is to win. I think he'll fit in eventually but he has some way to go yet.

[Carbomb]

Nah. They lost to BloodGen as Iwasa Gundam, and basically said "screw it, we're the Florida Brothers."

Confused by this statement.I thought the FloBro were already in existence by the time CIMA had unveiled BloodGen?

[Spatular]

Nah. They lost to BloodGen as Iwasa Gundam, and basically said "screw it, we're the Florida Brothers."

Confused by this statement.I thought the FloBro were already in existence by the time CIMA had unveiled BloodGen?

Yeah, they were - but since the new year they've toyed with the idea of going serious again, so they had a straight match with their old gimmicks as a one-night-only 'attraction'. They lost, so they've decided to stick to comedy.

[JLM]

Owashi has landed! He invaded at an Osaka Pro show and unleashed chokeslam hell.I always find these bits of news pleasing, good to see the Aagan guys landing on their feet in various promotions. Now someone, PLEASE bring in Sugawara.

[jae]

There were several really great angles and matches in November and December, and since then they've been forced to concentrate on rebuilding and debuting new guys. etc etc

Disagree on all fronts.Great angles in late 2004? The Mori-Sugawara debacle? The Italian Revolution that ended as fast as it appeared? Owashi vs. HenoHeno Mask?After a promising start with the BloodGen formation, the booking is again regressive and counter-productive. Aside from the Brave Gate show and a few 2/3 fall 6 man tags, nothing has been terribly good.What happened to the Naoki vs. Shingo generation war? Naoki continues to be buried, has the already forgotten resignation angle, now is hurt again. Raimu Mishima 2K5.No credible title contenders. Why the sudden decision to book K-ness for the Brave Gate? Obviously he isn't winning since Doi has the match with the K-Dojo guys coming up. That could have been a good match for World if anything.PSH for the Triangle Gate so soon? Why? At least make it interesting by .. you know... NOT announcing an event featuring "Triangle Gate champion team Do FIXER" for 5/14 until they win the match. Total hot shot that will bury PSH as credible.Don't get me started on the Dream Gate after Fujii.Araken was such a huge threat to the Dream Gate and Fujii that he has lost every single match since 4/8. Was there any reason for him to pin CIMA when he was just there to give Fujii a #1 contender opponent? Useless.I understand Danny is not going to be the same after the injury , but the serious mode Florida angle ended way too abruptly, then he was buried by Doi in a match that probably won't even make TV. Christ. They could have run that match again in Nagoya for huge heat after the way the Brave Gate match ended.Magnum is a pile of shit. The bully angle where he randomly attacks Dragon Kid or Genki or whoever during tag matches is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. It gets no reaction, isn't at all funny. It's just stupid. He has to be my least favourite wrestler on Earth besides Murehama and Nakajima.Hulk, Shingo, Tozawa, and Naoki all give good promise to future things (before completely hating on Hulk, remember he has been active for less than 2 months), but not if booked in traditional DG/Toryumon ways, which is the usually the worst way, which has happened to Naoki.The list goes on and on. It's infuriating.

[masstransit]

Hmm, maybe I was too negative last night. I've got to admit that the prospect of Takuya Sugawara dicking it up again is very appealing, if only because I'm envious of his trousers.

Im as straight as they come me but theres something about the sight of Sugawara's rear end in those tight trousers and when coupled with the young looks of a certain Mr Mori and I come over all queer.Still not recieved Novembers TV and PPV so had to console myself with ENO 2003. Come on Dave hurry up with the D.G

[Pickers]

Few interesting developments:

 

5/8

[Guest JPaCyN]

Few interesting developments:5/8

[JFFC]

Few interesting developments:5/8 – Arena Coliseo de Coacalco1. Milanito Collection AT & Hajime Ohara vs. Canjuro & Kameta2. Caudillo/Storm/Tormenta Tropical vs. Benny Black/Los Traumas I y II3. Gold Star/Kraven/Perro de Guerra vs. Alarido Nocturno/Fuego Sagrado/Heavy Boy4. Black Jaguar/Frisbee/Rey de Corazones vs. Los Oficiales (Guardia/Oficial/Xibalba)5. Fuerza Guerrera/Jaque Mate/Magnifico vs. Black Terry/Negro Navarro/El Signo

Very interesting about Milano- moreso because his partner, Hajime Ohara, is a newer Toryumon student. I always thought it was kinda odd that these guys seemingly still have some loyalty to Ultimo, because I was always assumed Ultimo was the dick in the situation re: the DG split.

Tis Milanito in that match, hes the Toryumon X mini version of Milano.As for the X'ers not making the switch to DG, I can only assume that back then it was to do with the roster size (must have been double the size it is now - Aagan, SUWA, TARU) and the fact that none of them were really ready to be on the main stage. There must be a certain loyalty to Ultimo and their trainers in their as well though. Off the top of my head, the only X'er who made the transition was Naoki.

[Spatular]

There were several really great angles and matches in November and December, and since then they've been forced to concentrate on rebuilding and debuting new guys. etc etc

Disagree on all fronts.

Well, I disagree right back at you.

Great angles in late 2004? The Mori-Sugawara debacle?

I didn't like it at first (Mori's mid-match catatonia was... different ) but once they abandoned the psychological nonsense and just booked it just as a traditional wrestling angle (X is evil so he doesn't like Y, X beats up Y a lot, Y gets final revenge on X) it became my absolute favourite thing they did all year. The OTG tourney final was a fantastic culmination to both this and the Milano/YOSSINO vs Kondo/YASSHI split, and it was probably my overall favourite Toryu / DG match of 2004. :thumbsup:I thought JLM's comment earlier in the thread on the tangibility of Sugawara's anger was spot on, but I suppose this could be the language barrier working in our favour. What I saw was this awful sneering lunatic screaming torrents of hate at poor wronged Anthony, but what you heard might not have been quite as convincing...

The Italian Revolution that ended as fast as it appeared?

That was a shame, but you can't book a wrestling promotion around a guy who's about to leave the company! It was bad that it had to end so soon, but can you really hold it against them?

Owashi vs. HenoHeno Mask?

Yeah, that was lame, but it was just filler. It's not like it was the main focus of the promotion...

After a promising start with the BloodGen formation, the booking is again regressive and counter-productive. Aside from the Brave Gate show and a few 2/3 fall 6 man tags, nothing has been terribly good.

This, and most of the rest of your post, I agree with completely. But now we're on to 2005, not 2004.The bits I don't agree with are:

Magnum is a pile of shit.

I like the guy! He's fun. Fun is good. I don't like the sound of the random attacks on his own guys but then I haven't seen any of it yet either.

He has to be my least favourite wrestler on Earth besides Murehama and Nakajima.

'Team 1000 Middle Kick' - I laughed out loud at that. I actually quite like both guys, in small doses.

Hulk, Shingo, Tozawa, and Naoki all give good promise to future things (before completely hating on Hulk, remember he has been active for less than 2 months), but not if booked in traditional DG/Toryumon ways, which is the usually the worst way, which has happened to Naoki.

I've now seen the Brave Gate show, and I liked Hulk much better on that show - he seemed much more fluid and less eager to impress. What I said before about him not comparing well to Shingo is more a comment on how good Shingo is than how good Hulk is. Shingo was awesome right from his first TV match.I like Naoki but somebody's got to be at the bottom of the pile and he's as good a candidate for the job as anyone else. I haven't seen Tozawa wrestle yet.

[jae]

Replying across the board.RE: The Toryumon X guysIt was a stipulation of the take over. Details sketchy. Later classes are more loyal to Asai, so were more likely not to side with Magnum and Okamura. SUWA was very close and loyal to Asai, as was TARU, hence both of them leaving pretty quickly. TARU planned on leaving originally in September, but stayed after SUWA left to keep things afloat. Odaiba and Fuji TV are the main cause of a lot of problems.re: Italian RevolutionMilano wasn't leaving at that time. Late November-mid December was the time frame for the Italian Revolution tour. Milano was buried long before he decided to leave. If anything it was more impetus.re: Mori vs. SugawaraNever at any time was that storyline coherent. The sad thing is you hit it right in that it was such a simple wrestling story to book. Instead it dragged on, with 2 non payoff hair matches? Yeah, let's shave Okamuras' head after Anthony finally gets the singles win (in an awful match). Sugawara always seemed to lack something. His promos were awkward, definitely. I liked him more as a Royal Brother. Similar situation as YASSHI. Both of them were more interesting as T2P heels than typical heels, simply because of their training. YASSHI was a great character/persona/atitude, but his actual work was fucking terrible once Hagure Gundam started. You can argue that it's logical progression of character, but taking away what made them compelling to begin with is a detriment. Sugawara is a good example. Mori on the other hand suffers from just having the worst offense ever. His rush offense is a missile kick and that damn Diving Cross. Ikimasyou~ my ass.re: MagnumFor a guy who has a ladies man gimmick, you would think he would work out enough to where he didn't have to wear a t-shirt. He doesn't do anything crisply anymore,, considering he has wrestled essentially the same match for the last 4 years, he has had enough practice. The cigarette thing, too. Just obnoxious. Hate hate hate.re: RookiesAgreed on Shingo and Hulk. Hulk has some disturbing Sato-isms, though. Anytime you are being compared to the Sato twins, you need work.Pecking order should go Shingo = Naoki > Hulk > Tozawa, not Shingo >> Hulk > Naoki > Tozawa. It took 2 years of comedy for Iwasa and Mishima to be taken seriously when serious time came around again. Naoki is hitting that point of where if he gets damaged much more, they wasted the best non-Salsero from the X class.re: Lineups:Milanito =/= Milano