The Dragon Gate thread

[Spatular]

Just so you know, there's at least one guy posting on this thread who's avoiding spoilers for the the Brave Gate tourney show!

Oh yeah dude...I know most people love YASSHI, and I can see why- my dislike personal preference more than anything, can't really explain it. Might also be because his ringwork was 10x better as YASSINI (I think that was the result of his arm injury though).

I'd disagree that he was better as YASSINI. He was flashier, and he wrestled more, and was still bringing the llave to the table, but I don't think that that necessarily made him better. There aren't many guys who turn full-on rudo and have the guts to ditch EVERYTHING that was likeable about their previous ring-style. YASSHI changed his style so much that nobody was left with any possible reason to like him. The flashiest move I saw him do during his Aagan run was a German suplex hold, and that was after the victim had been quadruple-teamed for a minute or so - whoever it was could have been beaten with a finger-poke and a lateral press, but YASSHI used a German suplex hold purely for the sake of showing off and rubbing the fans' noses in it. Now that is a heel.

And thanks for the clarification on the title defenses -I just thought 1 every 2 months or so was the norm in DG - considering CIMA defended the belt at the Sept. and Nov. PPVs, and I remember Magnum having a bunch of defenses in fairly quick succession during his UDG reign (Milano, Araken, SUWA).

Actually, you're right - they were a bit more frequent than I though. Maybe they decided to defend it slightly less often so that they don't run out of challengers? Or maybe Mochi needs longer between big singles matches, being a bit older than the others. Maybe they just wanted to focus on the Brave Gate show for a while, and thought it was a big enough attraction that they didn't need to waste a title match during the first quarter of the year.As for challengers post-Fujii... They have to do something with Magu sooner or later. I doubt he'd win the belt but he'd make a good challenger. K-ness would have been good if it weren't for him also being in Final M2K. Genki or Anthony would work for me but would need a lot of rebuilding first.For Mochi's successor, they could do a lot worse than CIMA again, or even Dragon Kid. I'm not Kid's biggest fan but he's certainly popular enough. Shame he and Mochi just wrestled on the Jan TV...

[Guest JPaCyN]

Sorry again, previous post de-spoilerized, hope it didn't cause problems for that dude.

 

To add some more content and make this post worthwhile - here's a review I did of the finals of the Rey de Parejas, from DG #7 (NOTE: this was originally written for a US indy message board, which is why some things are related that way.)

 

Italian Connection (Milano Collection AT, Anthony W. Mori, YOSSINO) vs. Aagan Issou (Shuji Kondo,

[Carbomb]

Hey JPaCyN, you based in London? Cool. Maybe we should see how many other Dragon Gate fans there are in the area and arrange a big viewing, a bit like they do at Page's Bar for various clubs.jae - yes, I realised I'd made that mistake when I re-viewed that statement. All I can say in my defense is that it was quite late, and I was very tired - my uptake tends to go to shit, even in English, when this is the case.BLT, I've not really kept up with stuff to do with Touryuumon up until now, so I have to ask:Is it not Ultimo Dragon's promotion any more? And if not, who runs it? When did the transition occur? Why?

[JLM]

Courstesy of http://dragongate.puroresufan.com

From January 1999 until July 2004, the students of the Ultimo Dragon Gym competed under the banner of Toryumon Japan. Emerging from a small indie promotion to the fastest rising wrestling organization in Japan, they became known for the exciting high flying action, with intriguing storylines and a heavy emphasis on performance. Due to the young male stars, a large fan base of Teen to 20 something female (and male, both straight and not) became one of it's trademarks.For it's run as Toryumon, the company was lead by it's figurehead, Ultimo Dragon, who was responsible for training 95% of the performers, and handled all the front office relations. His reputation helped give the company legitimacy in it's early days. Upon his return to the ring from his retirement, his partner Takashi Okamura began to retain more control of the day to day operations, and assumed full control upon Ultimos' departure to WWE.Through it's 5 year run, 3 graduating classes were borne out of the training dojo. Toryumon Japan: The initial term students, that became the signature stars in the early years.Toryumon 2000 Project (T2P): A drastic contrast from the first term, this class made use of a Hexagon (6 sided) ring, and utilized a hypnotic submission based style known as Llave. After a head to head feud with Japan, T2P was dismissed, and most of it's wrestlers joined the Japan roster.Toryumon X: Becoming known as the lost class. Considered a failure in the Japanese market, X boasted to represent the future of Japanese lucha, but due to it's lack of a true ace, and it's use of many "mini" versions of existing Toryumon wrestlers, it never caught on. Many of it's initial members have disappeared, but new ones have begun to debut. Naoki Tanisaki is the only member to date to graduate to Japan, while it's other members have begun to appear for other companies in Japan. This class retained the Toryumon name after the change, so something positive may still be in store.So where did Dragon Gate come from?On July 5th, 2004, one day after the 5th anniversary show in Kobe World Hall, Ultimo Dragon left the company, taking along his name and his trademark influences. Reports conflict as to the exact reasoning, ranging from trademark issues with the Toryumon name, to rumours of an unmasking in the near future for Ultimo, so he was choosing to distance himself. Although this was a drastic change up front, in the end this proved to be a front end change only, as the in ring product stayed the same. The names of the various products and television shows also changed.Gaora Monthly TV show Vamonos Amigos became Dragon Gate~InfinitySkyPerfect TV Pay Per View series Revolucion is now Battle StationThe TNC TV show Uno Dos Tres Toryumon! became DRAGON GATE: Door to DragonThe Muy Bien! fan club became Happy Gate.Tour names have changed from Spanish names, to multiple GATE related terms.The titles used during the Toryumon era were all returned to their initial owners, and new belts were prepared. The main singles title is called the "Open the Dream Gate" (or DG) title. This was awarded to CIMA, who was the final UDG belt holder. The 6 person tag belts are called "Open the Triangle Gate", and were rewarded to the winners of the 2004 Rey de Parejas, the Italian Connection.

Aside from this, Ultimo (these days wrestling as The Tiger to avoid the embarrassment of re-masking as Ultimo Dragon and because he appears to be a big-time Sayama mark) has been running odd shows using the X talent and various other workers. He's also run a couple of shows with Satoru Sayama (Tigermask) which also featured Toryumon X wrestlers. A lot of them have found work in Michinoku pro (Los Salseros, Los Carros Exoticos, Mini CMAX, some under new gimmicks), but there have recently been rumblings of an Ultimo-led Toryumon restart in the next couple of months.

[Carbomb]

I see. Well, to be honest, it seems to me to have been all for the best that Ultimo left. He did what quite a lot of leaders (and not just in wrestling) should have done - after having set up their concerns for the long haul, they should bow out gracefully with the times, and let someone better orientated for this era take over. (Examples: Fidel Castro, Vince McMahon, Hulk Hogan)Following Dragon's departure, Dragon Gate has become infinitely more marketable, and its sheer style is unbelievable. The contrast I could see between Touryuumon and Dragon Gate is very clear. I could have watched Touryuumon and enjoyed it, but I watch Dragon Gate, and I fucking love it.One thing I do think is definitely better is that they dispensed with all the Spanish and replaced it with English, Japanese-culture-related terms. Japanese language would have been fine as well, just as long as they had the Japanese flavour to it. The Spanish language stuff I saw was just too Mexican in its idiom. The whole "Gate" terminology is very Japanese, something you associate with Japanese palaces, temples, martial arts dojos, etc.On top of all that, as I and other people have said already, the Dragon Gate Prestige range is just utter genius. It not only innovates in terms of merchandising, it helps set the high class tone for the entire promotion. Thanks to this, and gimmicks like the Italian Connection, and the fact that it's well-marketed towards young, stylish people, girls in particular, you now have a promotion that any casual would be happy to support, and would forego the usual mockery that any casual directs at wrestling fans.Simply put - Dragon Gate makes you proud to be a wrestling fan.Tirade over.

[Spatular]

I see. Well, to be honest, it seems to me to have been all for the best that Ultimo left. He did what quite a lot of leaders (and not just in wrestling) should have done - after having set up their concerns for the long haul, they should bow out gracefully with the times, and let someone better orientated for this era take over. (Examples: Fidel Castro, Vince McMahon, Hulk Hogan)

I don't think that's quite how it went! When Ultimo left, the promotion lost its name, its top title (which bore Ultimo's name), its midcard titles (which I think physically belonged to Ultimo), and its next generation of debutantes. They no longer have these things either because Ultimo didn't want them to have them or because they wanted to purge any associations they had with Ultimo. Over the last nine months, they've lost SUWA, TARU, all five of Aagan Iisou (sacked my arse), and now Milano. That's not just attrition - these guys weren't happy about something. Although no-one seems to know for sure what happened, it's fairly safe to say that it wasn't an amicable separation.The closing segment of the 6th Anniverary show (Kobe World Hall, July 2004) might be very telling. Everyone currently associated with the promotion is in the ring for CIMA's closing speech, during which he thanks everyone for their efforts individually. Everyone except Aagan Iisou and Ultimo himself, that is (Ultimo wrestled Katsuhiko Nakajima - an outsider - on the show.) At the time, I assumed Aagan were told to stay backstage because they were heels, and were crying into their beers like the real men they are, but now I'm not so sure.It's certainly true to say that they've landed on their feet, though. Can't argue with that.

[Carbomb]

Milano's gone?! What the fuck for?! He's one of the best wrestlers in the promotion! Nay, in the business!Aww, that sucks. Well, at least there's still Saito, CIMA, Magu (I know he's not popular at the mo, but I've always liked him - he and CIMA were the only ones I'd really seen anything of before I started watching), Mochi, AraKen, Horiguchi and FloBro.All the other workers are decent too - they're all worth watching.

[jae]

Asai was forced out. Doing some simple match can make by who pretty obvious. Not saying more. Toryumon will be rebranded in the coming time, with the current Mexico kids coming to Japan. While DG having it's Mexico pipeline cut off looked disastrous at first, the DG dojo has churned out 3 very good trainees, so it's all good.Aagan, were not part of the DG switch in the grand scheme. From the inception, you can see how they were downplayed from the moment the company became DG. They were rarely in Odaiba, Mochizuki was hastily pulled from the group to put him with FM2K, so there would be a friendly, marketable unit with Mochi at the lead. I thikn it was a little of both, where they weren't happy with their new position, which lead to displeasure, which lead to apathy, which lead to their outright dismissal.Kondo, meh. I'm happy for his current position, but in DG, Shingo does the power thing, and has a better personality. He rules, despite his hair. He makes me not miss Shuji in the least.The Dream Gate field is very weak. Very very weak. Barring a Milano return (he's gone...gone gone gone), they have no credible challengers. That is the one big question mark left right now. The Brave Gate field is great, and the Triangle Gate has produced 2 amazing matches in recent months.

[Carbomb]

Are there no normal tag belts? Just the three-man team belts?

[Guest JPaCyN]

Yes - I'm guessing this is so because Toryumon since basically the beginning was built upon stable warfare, and sixman belts are more conducive to that than tag belts.Heck, they didn't have an official main singles title until 2003...just the random NWA/UWA belts Ultimo owned.They did do the "Rey de Parejas" (meaning "king of couples") tourney in 2003, that was won by Kondo and YASSHI over K-ness and Yokosuka in the final...but that got changed to 3-man teams in 2004 (negating the name, lol) to determine the first OTG champs.

[Carbomb]

Thanks. This thread is proving to be very informative.On with the questions:Are the Italian Connection meant to be heels? I sometimes get that impression from Milano Collection AT, but then they don't cheat or cheap shot. Same with C-Max, Blood Generation and DoFIXER - I was always under the impression that CIMA was a heel, as well as the rest, but then he talks to crowd like a face, and sometimes, does face-like stuff. Same with Magnum TOKYO.Or am I missing the point? Is it just between factions, with no delineated face or heels (except, of course, for FloBro and Aagan)? If so, good - I prefer that to the usual face/heel divide.

[jae]

Thanks. This thread is proving to be very informative.On with the questions:Are the Italian Connection meant to be heels? I sometimes get that impression from Milano Collection AT, but then they don't cheat or cheap shot. Same with C-Max, Blood Generation and DoFIXER - I was always under the impression that CIMA was a heel, as well as the rest, but then he talks to crowd like a face, and sometimes, does face-like stuff. Same with Magnum TOKYO.Or am I missing the point? Is it just between factions, with no delineated face or heels (except, of course, for FloBro and Aagan)? If so, good - I prefer that to the usual face/heel divide.

Originally the ItaCon were heels. Once Shuji, Yasshi, et al split, they became super face. Clean fight, very popular.BG are supposed to be heels, but Yoshino is trying to get them to fight clean in matches, I don't think this will sit well with them.DF are face, FM2K are face. Pos.HEARTS are super face.CIMA technically is a heel now, but that is his biggest pratfall as a wrestler, he is a great physical heel, but he only knows how to do one sort of promo, which is the funny/face type. Magnum at this point is a face who is a dick to his friends....bully character maybe. The line really, aside from Aagan and earlier, Original M2K, there are never really typical evil heels. More punk heel that are still very popular. Magnum for example, when he turned heel and joined M2K, he was more popular than he had ever been.With the ItaCon dead and Milano gone, I guess you could put it this way, from most face to most heelPos.HEARTS ->FM2K -> DF ->BG.Frolida really doesn't count, since they are comedy, and acknowledge that.

[JPC]

Got my DVD today. Just got the last match of the first disk to watch.

 

So far i find it very entertaining. I love comedy matches........ and well........ The Florida Brothers~~~~~~

 

I love the gimmicks and the fast pace of everything cos they do it fast yet dont fuck up like in US indy companys.

 

Will post a much more detailed post tommorrow.

 

Meanwhile may i push you in the direction of x2videos

Awesome

[masstransit]

Took the advice offered in a previous post and have coming in in the next few days the November DG Infinity TV and the November "Battle Junction" PPV. Expect my review of Novembers DG soon. Though it wont be at the level of the previous reviews im afraid.Just to echo Carbomb's sentiments, This thread IS very informative. If I enjoyed the little Toryumon/Dragon Gate I'd already seen without much of a clue what was going on Im now going to enjoy it better thanks to the oodles of info herein.Last thing, Thanks Guys.

[Guest TimStrange]

I just finished watching The Opening of the gates and the BOT Florida Brothers I must say It was the first independent promotion in a long time that I could sit down and honestly say I enjoyed Every match...Florida Brothers~~~~~~~~~~Magnum Tokyo~~~~~~~~~I need Dragon Gate Dvds anyone got any info add me to msn at grandmastersmokey@hotmail.comTS