" They just need..."

[SwayWays]

Reading a wrestling news site earlier, regarding Dutch mantel's comments regarding his stance on Bron Breakker being a poor man's Goldberg. 

Someone made the point that even the spear has become an over used and devalued move for the most part, when someone raised the point that as a former football player, it makes sense for bron over most. But perhaps he could find a way to make it his own. 

 

I like breakker and think he's got time to find or make up for those missing pieces cited by martel. 

It got me thinking people currently over contact who lack momentum or  reinvention, any ideas of what they could be. 

For me I look at corbin, he's not everyones cup of tea, but a new look, and character direction could make a go, although I'm not sure what else they haven't tried for him. 

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

The spear really is the most over used and unoriginal move of all time. It's especially bad when multiple people use it as a match ender on the same show.

And why is it when they have a guy strong enough to do a power move on 95% of the roster, you give them a charging move? 

BRING BACK THE MILITARY PRESS SLAM BRON!

Edited April 30 by andrew "the ref" coyne

[air_raid]

5 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

The spear really is the most over used and unoriginal move of all time. It's especially bad when multiple people use it as a match ender on the same show.

Because Goldberg and Rhino got it over in WCW and ECW respectively, they like to keep using it. Of course, the two things lost in the mists of time is that it was only ever a setup originally for the Jackhammer or Rhino’s piledriver in those places. Blame Edge spearing Jeff Hardy from the heavens at Mania 17 for them thinking it should end a match, probably, around the same time they hired Rhino and he started winning with the Gore because piledrivers were out. Somewhere they forgot they realized the explosive impact move worked great for Goldberg and Rhino because it fit to their intense, explosive personality. There have been plenty of crap ones - Edge AND Christian both using them usually looked rubbish, my personal strongest distaste was Batista doing it when he already had a fine repertoire of signature power moves, but there’s been loads. Charlotte always looks awful doing it, especially. Nobody else should do it while Reigns isn’t retired, he’s been the closest to a good one this century.

You’re not wrong on power moves - we need more press slams, powerbombs and stuff Sid would do. Bring back the whirlybird!

Leave the memories alone.

Edited April 30 by air_raid
Put an arrow through my heart and twist it all around

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

2 hours ago, air_raid said:

Because Goldberg and Rhino got it over in WCW and ECW respectively, they like to keep using it. Of course, the two things lost in the mists of time is that it was only ever a setup originally for the Jackhammer or Rhino’s piledriver in those places. Blame Edge spearing Jeff Hardy from the heavens at Mania 17 for them thinking it should end a match, probably, around the same time they hired Rhino and he started winning with the Gore because piledrivers were out. Somewhere they forgot they realized the explosive impact move worked great for Goldberg and Rhino because it fit to their intense, explosive personality. There have been plenty of crap ones - Edge AND Christian both using them usually looked rubbish, my personal strongest distaste was Batista doing it when he already had a fine repertoire of signature power moves, but there’s been loads. Charlotte always looks awful doing it, especially. Nobody else should do it while Reigns isn’t retired, he’s been the closest to a good one this century.

You’re not wrong on power moves - we need more press slams, powerbombs and stuff Sid would do. Bring back the whirlybird!

Leave the memories alone.

Look at those god damn beautiful spears. Gorgeous.

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

Tbf i think this is one of the problems with wrestling. 

Matches used to be all about  the wrestler hitting his 'finishing' move  and the build up to that added to the match.

And when it was hit and the rarest of rarest occasions it was a kick not it was an "OMG" moment

Now everything has been watered down to the point why would you buy a DDT as a finisher in match when 2 matches earlier it was used 57x on a chair and  only got a 2 count.

 

 

 

[DavidB6937]

I love Bron's spear. Feels like the complete opposite of the weak Edge one. Bron has a ridiculous speed and intensity. As long as they play into that I think it's a great move for him, even if it can be overused. At least it's not a superkick.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

I love Bron's spear. Feels like the complete opposite of the weak Edge one. Bron has a ridiculous speed and intensity. As long as they play into that I think it's a great move for him, even if it can be overused. At least it's not a superkick.

The superkick officially died at WrestleMania by the Usos. 

[air_raid]

1 minute ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

The superkick officially died at WrestleMania by the Usos. 

The Ballad Of Never Watched The Bucks?

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

10 minutes ago, air_raid said:

The Ballad Of Never Watched The Bucks?

Did you SEE that Usos match? Fuck me. I refuse to believe the Bucks, as bad as they are with the superkick, have ever produced anything THAT dire.

[DavidB6937]

The weird thing about that Usos stuff is they blamed it on time or something. They didn't need more time. No one needed another 100 super kicks.

[LaGoosh]

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

Matches used to be all about  the wrestler hitting his 'finishing' move  and the build up to that added to the match.

On the other hand, this has been a detriment to a large portion of mainstream US wrestling for the past few decades as matches have been entirely focused on the build to the "finishing move" so that matches don't tell any other story other than that and audience have been conditioned to believe that barely anything in a match matters except for the finishing moves. That's why we have the main event style of wrestlers kicking out at 2 and doing the shocked face...by focusing matches entirely on that finishing stretch of hitting trademark finishers as the standard there's basically now no other story the wrestlers can tell.

[BomberPat]

Yep. "Everything builds to the one move this wrestler does that can finish the match" is also exactly why we ended up with finisher spams for near falls, because no audience believes that any match is ending until they see the finishers, so the only way to get then to react to a kick-out is to have someone kick-out of the moves that five years later we'll be complaining aren't protected any more.

The concept of "everyone has a unique finisher and that's the only way they ever win" is a relatively new idea (I think mostly informed by video games), and even a cursory look at most of wrestling history shows that it's neither the default or best option in terms of how to approach wrestling psychology.

[air_raid]

14 hours ago, BomberPat said:

The concept of "everyone has a unique finisher and that's the only way they ever win" is a relatively new idea (I think mostly informed by video games), and even a cursory look at most of wrestling history shows that it's neither the default or best option in terms of how to approach wrestling psychology.

I think those of us raised on a stream of late 80s/early 90s WWF tapes were conditioned to it, a finisher always ended the match, unless you were doing it to Hogan, Warrior or later, The Undertaker. The only times “mortal men” got to kick out of finishers were where the other guy was on the way out like Perfect letting Bret kick out of the PerfectPlex at SummerSlam 91… although that same show had the frankly unbelievable sight of The Mountie surviving the Boss Man Slam, though he still lost. Few and far between. But it’s a thin line between utilising a finisher kick out sensibly, and Roman Reigns kicking out of four F5s to the point of boring then still losing to a fifth, making both him AND the move look weaker in one calamitous match.

It’s part of the reason I got so heavily into New Japan, where hitting your finisher wasn’t always decisive but how and when e.g after a good flurry or in a particularly effective counter. The Rainmaker was very well protected in a different way, even though people were permitted to kick out of it, for over six years Okada never went on to lose a match in which he hit it - so it was still pretty lethal even if the first didn’t always win the match and you always had doubt someone could break that record - which Omega finally did, in the famed 7* match in Osaka. Or prior to that, the old All Japan approach to how matches could end. Take our old friend Musawa - right when I started following closely, his given finisher for singles matches was usually the Emerald Frozien, but on occasion any combination of “boxing” elbows, a rolling one or just one good running smash (like the one that beat Vader for the Triple Crown) could see him home, or on special occasions, he could reach deep into the bag of tricks and pull out the Tiger Driver 91.

Edited May 1 by air_raid
You hit me, sunshine a liking to our evil evening.... heartbreak, I'm not holding your hand anymore

[Devon Malcolm]

9 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

Did you SEE that Usos match? Fuck me. I refuse to believe the Bucks, as bad as they are with the superkick, have ever produced anything THAT dire.

If you've ever seen a Young Bucks match, you've seen something that dire.