WWE to Netflix, Network presumably doomed

[FLips]

The matches you mentioned aren't even advertised yet either. You're essentially complaining that there aren't rumours about unnannounced matches yet. You're inventing a problem.

[Doog]

Come on, you can't think the titles are the main focus of the shows at the minute? Yeah tonight has two title but RAW isn't being built around Gunther and Cody only had the main slot on Smackdown this week because Roman wasn't there.

The two matches are as good as official and regardless of any title involvement on the Netflix RAW they will obviously take precedent. When Finn Balor and Damien Priest are the only ones interested in the World Title you know there's a problem.

Hopefully something happens tonight and Cody is put into a prominent role but all signs point towards him and especially Gunther being afterthought as they have been for weeks.

The real stars aren't holding or fighting for the belts at the minute.

[SuperBacon]

5 minutes ago, Doog said:

The real stars aren't holding or fighting for the belts at the minute.

And in my opinion that's absolutely fine by the way. Roman Reigns is the biggest star they have. He can't be the champion all the time.

[Doog]

I can't get on board with that. Not saying one person should be champion all the time, but wrestling shows in my opinion should revolve around the World Title. It should be the biggest thing in the industry and seen as the most important story going. If the World Titles are shown to mean nothing and your biggest stars aren't interested in it then what's the point?

Maybe it's outdated how I see wrestling and the World Title isn't the be all and end all anymore, if that's the case then it's not for me. But if it is, then it should be a focal point, not in the mid card, and it definitely should not be overshadowed by any other stories expect in exceptional circumstances. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

I suspect if you're a new or casual viewer, you'll probably not yet have got to the point where you're complaining about the lack of respect or prominence being given to the World Titles, and you'll be happy just to see the stars.

It's also worth saying, that WWE have 3 proper stars, and 2 floating stars. They have Roman, Punk and Cody, and then hovering about them you have The Rock and Cena when they're working.

If one of them is the Champion, but not in the big billed match on any given show I think that's fine as the others more than make up for it in terms of star power which is what really matters.

I think they've had the reverse issue in the past, and its proven to be worst than occasionally letting the title slip down the card; i.e arbitrarily giving the World Title prominence when it wasn't needed - like Triple H/Jericho hilariously headlining Wrestlemania 18. If you're going through a hot patch and have more big stars than you have world titles? That's a good headache to have.

I'd actually say the argument for moving the belt off Cody tonight is he seems to be Champion solely because he's a big star, and one of the faces of the company, despite not actually having much to do as Champion from a storyline perspective. Kevin Owens may be a step down in terms of profile, but at least the title would feel alive again on the show.

*edit* Also, it's not like any of this is new. They've had the World Title defended in the mid card before. Rey Mysterio was Champion twenty years ago and he was properly wedged in the middle of the show.

Wrestling isn't a real sport, what matters is stars. And they've got them coming out the wazoo. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by d-d-d-dAz

[Doog]

Just now, d-d-d-dAz said:

 

I'd actually say the argument for moving the belt off Cody tonight is he seems to be Champion solely because he's a big star, and one of the faces of the company, despite not actually having much to do as Champion from a storyline perspective. Kevin Owens may be a step down in terms of profile, but at least the title would feel alive again on the show.

But therein lies my point though, from a storyline perspective you're right, Cody doesn't have much to do as Champion but he should. His story should be the main story, they should make it so, he should be feuding with the big stars, presented as THE guy, he's the World Champion, it should be everything.

[SuperBacon]

3 minutes ago, Doog said:

in my opinion

And there you go, we all have different opinions, and that's good.

I'm not saying the titles should be relegated to nothing, but there is nothing wrong with other bigger storylines taking precedence sometimes even if they don't feature the current champs.

 

[d-d-d-dAz]

3 minutes ago, Doog said:

But therein lies my point though, from a storyline perspective you're right, Cody doesn't have much to do as Champion but he should. His story should be the main story, they should make it so, he should be feuding with the big stars, presented as THE guy, he's the World Champion, it should be everything.

But then the show would be the same every week as they've only got 3 regularly working stars of the same level. And they can't always face each other.

If Cody isn't feuding with Roman or Punk, they're all separately going to be feuding with people not on the same level; at which point why not give more prominence to whatevers popping?

Roman/Solo is a bigger deal, too, perversely because of Roman's run with the belt. I don't think it's as easy as 'well Roman has dropped the title now so let's not bother with the years long Bloodline angle guys, let's shove that down the card and go with whatever Cody is up to'.

It's wrestling. It's about who's over and what angles are working. Providing the title isn't in the mid card temporarily because a sub par Champion has dragged it there, it's all good.

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by d-d-d-dAz

[RedTwoster]

15 minutes ago, Doog said:

But therein lies my point though, from a storyline perspective you're right, Cody doesn't have much to do as Champion but he should. His story should be the main story, they should make it so, he should be feuding with the big stars, presented as THE guy, he's the World Champion, it should be everything.

I mean, it kind of is. The biggest match they did in years - Roman/Cody - was all about the World title. People are enormously into the idea of Owens becoming World Champion, because the title means something to them. They felt similarly when Sami challenged Gunther for the belt, again because they care about the idea of the wrestler in question becoming World Champion. In addition to that, multiple storylines on both brands are or have been rooted in the idea that a wrestler wants to be Champion, or that it matters. Drew/Punk was based around Punk vowing to prevent McIntyre from becoming Champion. Rollins grew to hate Punk even more because he took away his shot at being World Champion. The Priest/Balor storyline is tied into both wrestlers aspiring to hold the World title. Solo Sikoa wanted to cement his status as Tribal Chief by becoming champion.

Basically everything on each show is linked to the idea being champion matters.

Edited December 14, 2024 by RedTwoster

[DavidB6937]

I wouldn't say the titles have been devalued or made "not important" or whatever this argument is.

They're lucky enough that they have a lot of really over guys at the moment where they can have important personal feuds that don't revolve around a title. That's a good thing. Not everything has to be over a belt.

Gunther isn't on the level of a Cody or Roman but he is a guy who has been banging on and on about everything being sacred and clearly cares a lot about whatever title he holds. So it's not like it's on a guy who doesn't give a shit.

And Cody's relentless pursuit of the belt was obvious. And now we're into a more personal feud with Owens. It's not like he's defending it against R Truth or something.

They have multiple ways to go with main events on both shows and it's a great place for them to be in. And they shouldn't just shift the belt to the most over guy just so it's the main event all the time. It doesn't have to be that way.

[Doog]

Like I say, and has been said, it's opinions and maybe my taste in how I like wrestling isn't the same as others and that's fine.

I'm not saying the belt should be on the most over guy either per se, and I agree that the Champions they have now cate about the belts and want to be Champion etc.

My gripe is that is not presented on the TV shows as the most important thing, its rarely the main event segment, rarely the main storyline on the show, and I get that's because they've got multiple stars who are over, but I'm just saying for me I prefer the main story to revolve around the World Title, nothing should be above it. At the minute multiple stories are taking precedence over what's happening with the World Title and i don't like that. It didn't use to be like that either, it's only really the last few years, aside from the odd month or so in the past, where the title isn't the main focal point.

[DavidB6937]

You could try watching the shows in a different order?

[Doog]

Or just not watching at all which is what will end up happening, which is annoying because I want to like it. 

Appreciate the sarcasm, but obviously its not just about it being in the main event, Rhea/Raquel was the main event on the last RAW for example and that means nothing, but it's the story.

To put a bow on it as it's going to have to be an agree to disagree, my point is, the World Title should be the most important thing in the company and on the shows, and currently it isnt being presented as such.

Edited December 14, 2024 by Doog

[SuperBacon]

I think it's important to remember just how much things have changed.

For example opening the show, or curtain jerking, used to be a death spot and no one wanted to do it.

Nowadays huge matches open huge shows. It's just something that naturally happened.

You're absolutely right that the world title did feature more (or more prominently) back in the day, but it's just that things evolve and they don't necessarily need the title to elevate people like they used to.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Doog said:

, Rhea/Raquel was the main event on the last RAW for example and that means nothing, but it's the story.

But hang on, Rhea vs Raquel is about Rhea taking out Liv's heater so that she can get straight back to the World Title. That's a perfect example of the Title meaning loads, isn't it?