The Apex - It's Here to Stay!

[wandshogun09]

2 hours ago, WeeAl said:

However if they were wanting to shift tickets, you can bet your ass the cards would look different.

Yep. You only have to look at the state of that Song vs Simon card at the Apex the other night, or the Pennington vs Aldana one coming up. Then look at the upcoming Rozenstruik vs Almeida card which will be in Charlotte in front of fans. It’s not loaded up but it’s noticeably better than the Apex ones. Nobody’s even saying they’re expecting stacked Fight Nights, and I get the reasons why they’re doing it. But like you say, why would you wanna put out a shitty product at all? They might be making money on those shows but are they doing more harm than good long term when it comes to fan interest?

Shit, just looking at examples I know about, my brother used to watch all the UFCs. PPVs, Fight Nights, TUF, the lot. Since the schedules went into overdrive he’s gradually lost interest and it’s not like he’s only skipping the Apex stuff, he’s got to the point now where it’s literally only certain PPVs he’ll dip in for. My sister’s the same. She was as big a fight nerd as me and something’s killed her love for it. Couple of mates who watched regularly and actually came to a few UFCs with me years ago have gone the same way. Granted we’ve all got older and got more responsibilities now but they were massive fans at one time. I’m not just talking casuals here. My sister used to always be chasing me up to see if I had the latest WEC or Strikeforce etc. Mates were always messaging fight news and rumours etc. Now it’s literally fuck all. And I still see them all the time. It’s almost like when everyone at school seemed to just stop watching WWF overnight in 1994/95. Except we can’t blame Mantaur and Duke The Dumpster for this. These days it’ll just be the occasional “any UFC on this week?” I’ll tell them and 9/10 times the conversation lasts 30 seconds. Last time I remember real enthusiasm from them was 285 in March with Jon Jones coming back. And the London card to a lesser extent. But not one of them took any notice of 287 and that was a really strong card. It’s like they’ve just had their love for this shit killed off. The thing I’ve noticed that all these have in common is they all started slowly losing interest around 2014/15 when they started putting on cards every week, then their interest really seemed to plummet after COVID when the Apex cards were introduced.

Long winded but I guess what I’m getting at is, if there are 4 or 5 examples just in my circle who have fallen out of love with MMA, and the UFC in particular, they’re not gonna be the only ones. Fuck, even I mostly skipped the Song vs Simon card and I’m so balls deep in this stuff I’m doing lengthy previews for Pennington vs Aldana headliners and all sorts 🤣

[Zebra Kid Mark]

6 hours ago, WeeAl said:

A big thing that is fairly recent is the site fees issue. The UFC don't just want to bring their show to town and make money off the gate by pricing it whatever way they need to in order for it to be profitable. They want a site fee from the city they are going to, so that the show is paid for before a ticket is sold. It's a large part of why from they have started touring again, they haven't actually went to a great variety of places even with the PPV's. It's been Houston, London, Vegas, Abu Dhabi etc. It's the exact reason why Dana doesn't have any interest in Hawaii - their tourism board essentially laughed them off the island for wanting site fee's.

What's a site fee? Who pays it and why? Who would have paid London's site fee? 

[WeeAl]

8 hours ago, Zebra Kid Mark said:

What's a site fee? Who pays it and why? Who would have paid London's site fee? 

It's when a council, state, government, tourism board, or maybe even the arena itself, pay a promotion to bring their show to their area in order for the local economy to benefit from the lift in income. Instead of the promotion having to rent the arena. It'll break a show even or profitable before a ticket is sold. 

[Egg Shen]

13 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

 I’m not just talking casuals here. My sister used to always be chasing me up to see if I had the latest WEC or Strikeforce etc. Mates were always messaging fight news and rumours etc. Now it’s literally fuck all. 

I think thats a case of people generally going through a UFC 'phase', especially before life's responsibilites get in the way. A large part of my friendship group was similar. I liken it to people who go through their metal phase in music or pro wrestling, I say that because i've seen that first hand too. People discover things as a teenager, get obsessed with it then get burnt out on it and move on. It's just a cycle. It's just the weird select few like ourselves that continue to like the same shit. I'm also still posting on  a wrestling forum I joined over 20 years ago for fuck sake😄

 

 

[Dai]

I guess the issue is that the UFC is making way more money now than what it was during the glory years. I doubt they are that bothered about a reduction in the amount of people watching these shows if they are still making millions more profit per year. 

Another thing to consider is that it's a different era now, where content (however average) is king. All of these average shows give Fight Pass and ESPN hundreds of hours of cheap sporting content, which is probably the most important factor these days. 

[David]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:49 PM, Egg Shen said:

Nah, not having that @David

You're admitting yourself here that you're not even watching these shows, why are you defending them 😄 The UFC have the strength of roster to be presenting good cards in front of crowds on a weekly/bi-weekly basis. Again, you just put the right fights in the right locations. 

Here's a Dana White quote from 2021:

“No,” White responded, when asked if the UFC was going to keep their Fight Night cards at the Apex permanently. “One of the reasons that I believe personally that this sport has grown as big and fast as it is, is because we take this thing all over the world. We go into Oklahoma and places where people usually don’t get fights. So the Fight Nights are a big part of our brand. We’ll continue to do it when the whole country opens up.”

and another...

“We should be in sold-out arenas, fans packed, going crazy,” White said. “And unfortunately, we’ll all have to start traveling to all these cities again. But that’s the right thing to do.

“This is the easy, lazy thing to do, and it’s nice, and it was awesome while it lasted. But hopefully, this is over.”

Yes, and technically Dana has been true to his word, hasn't he? This year alone we've had the Yan vs Merab fight night card at the Virgin hotel in Vegas, Vera vs Sandhagen card in Texas, the Holloway vs Allen card in Kansas City, and we've got the Rozenstruik vs Almeida card scheduled for Charlotte, Emmett vs Topuria pencilled in for Florida, along with a Fight Night scheduled for good ol' Blighty.

So we have seen a fair chunk of the non-numbered cards back in arenas, but the point I'm making is that there will be cards that are suited for the Apex. The events that are mostly loaded with up & comers who aren't an attraction as yet. 

The Apex has its place.

16 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Yep. You only have to look at the state of that Song vs Simon card at the Apex the other night, or the Pennington vs Aldana one coming up. Then look at the upcoming Rozenstruik vs Almeida card which will be in Charlotte in front of fans. It’s not loaded up but it’s noticeably better than the Apex ones. Nobody’s even saying they’re expecting stacked Fight Nights, and I get the reasons why they’re doing it. But like you say, why would you wanna put out a shitty product at all? They might be making money on those shows but are they doing more harm than good long term when it comes to fan interest?

Shit, just looking at examples I know about, my brother used to watch all the UFCs. PPVs, Fight Nights, TUF, the lot. Since the schedules went into overdrive he’s gradually lost interest and it’s not like he’s only skipping the Apex stuff, he’s got to the point now where it’s literally only certain PPVs he’ll dip in for. My sister’s the same. She was as big a fight nerd as me and something’s killed her love for it. Couple of mates who watched regularly and actually came to a few UFCs with me years ago have gone the same way. Granted we’ve all got older and got more responsibilities now but they were massive fans at one time. I’m not just talking casuals here. My sister used to always be chasing me up to see if I had the latest WEC or Strikeforce etc. Mates were always messaging fight news and rumours etc. Now it’s literally fuck all. And I still see them all the time. It’s almost like when everyone at school seemed to just stop watching WWF overnight in 1994/95. Except we can’t blame Mantaur and Duke The Dumpster for this. These days it’ll just be the occasional “any UFC on this week?” I’ll tell them and 9/10 times the conversation lasts 30 seconds. Last time I remember real enthusiasm from them was 285 in March with Jon Jones coming back. And the London card to a lesser extent. But not one of them took any notice of 287 and that was a really strong card. It’s like they’ve just had their love for this shit killed off. The thing I’ve noticed that all these have in common is they all started slowly losing interest around 2014/15 when they started putting on cards every week, then their interest really seemed to plummet after COVID when the Apex cards were introduced.

Long winded but I guess what I’m getting at is, if there are 4 or 5 examples just in my circle who have fallen out of love with MMA, and the UFC in particular, they’re not gonna be the only ones. Fuck, even I mostly skipped the Song vs Simon card and I’m so balls deep in this stuff I’m doing lengthy previews for Pennington vs Aldana headliners and all sorts 🤣

The thing is, the UFC doesn't need fans tuning in for every single event. They need fans tuning in for the PPV's and the big fight cards. As @Keith Houchen says, they can't be sounding the promotional bullhorn for every single card and painting it as a big deal, otherwise fans won't respond when it actually is a big deal.

As you've said, the events they can schedule that have the level of fighters who can draw a crowd they will go out into the live arenas with those, but they still need a place to keep the very bottom of the roster active and getting the rounds in. The newcomers need somewhere to put some wins together. Those wins in the Apex setting then become highlight reels for Anik to wank over when they get bumped up to fighting on a numbered card prelim or an arena Fight Night. 

It makes absolute financial sense, and the fact that some people aren't watching those shows matters not a jot. What matters is that when McGregor, Jones, Adesanya, Pimblett etc are scheduled they can get the promotional flywheel turning and it seems like a huge event.

[Egg Shen]

you make valid points regarding the strength of the shows, but it doesn't detract from the fact that staging a live sporting event on TV in front of next to no people translates terribly as a viewing experience, that's the main issue people have with the Apex.

[David]

1 minute ago, Egg Shen said:

you make valid points regarding the strength of the shows, but it doesn't detract from the fact that staging a live sporting event on TV in front of next to no people translates terribly as a viewing experience, that's the main issue people have with the Apex.

Yeah, but the UFC doesn't really care about that. How many people are tuning in to watch that card at the weekend? Crowd or no crowd? They can't put that into an arena with the associated costs and expect to make any money. Fans, especially in the US, aren't buying that kind of card. 

For me, they've got their scheduling bang on for the rest of the year so far.

[Egg Shen]

Again, the fans issue with the events is that it translates poorly on TV and comes off as a watered down version of what they enjoy watching. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Egg Shen

[David]

14 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Again, the fans issue with the events is that it translates poorly on TV and comes off as a watered down version of what they enjoy watching. 

But when you see the actual fighters on the card, it is a watered down version of what they enjoy watching. It isn't going to improve Song Yadong vs Ricky Simon as a main event and Caio Borralho vs Michal Oleksiejczuk as a co-main by putting it in front of a crowd. 

No one is caring about that card, regardless of where it takes place. But the truth is, guys like them and the other fighters on the card need to get fights in somewhere.

[wandshogun09]

That’s all well and good but at the end of the day if they’re putting it on TV it should be of a certain quality surely. Again, nobody’s expecting PPV quality cards but they can do better than some of the shite they’ve been putting out. Regardless of how much money they’re making, why would any company knowingly put out a shite version product? I hate that phrase everyone bums when they’re talking about Paul Heyman and ECW - “accentuate the positives, hide the negatives” - but surely that’s the aim of anyone selling any product? Especially in television/entertainment. 

Also, nobody’s arguing that the company doesn’t care and that the company makes money. But that’s nothing to do with us as spectators. We’re not sitting in on board meetings or gaining or losing a single penny from their decisions either way so why give a fuck about the financials? Seriously, that talk is even more dull than the Apex cards themselves. We can understand why they do these cards and still call a weak card a weak card when it’s a weak card. MMA is a spectator sport and a crowd can add to even a nothing fight. MMA with no fans is just jarring and joyless. I got it during the lockdown days because it’s the only way they could run shows. Now it’s just greed and laziness.

This is your worst look yet David. It was bad enough when you were saying positive things about Colby Covington. But this is the worst, this Apex shit. 

 

[David]

All I'm saying is that the Apex cards make perfect sense. The UFC roster is so fucking bloated now that they need to give fights to these guys (and girls) who, in my opinion, simply aren't up to what I'd term UFC level quality. 

But, rather than have up & comers fight in smaller organisations in shitty towns throughout America the UFC seems happier having them under contract and throwing them into the Apex cards. It's basically Contender shows with a somewhat known name or two in the main event, isn't it? 

It is a spectator sport. But that doesn't mean we need to watch every single punch thrown in every single fight. If you don't like the Apex cards, don't watch. I've missed my fair share of them. I'll watch them if I'm at a loose end on a Sunday, or will check out the main event if it's something worth seeing.

But yeah, the current state of said bloated roster means that weak cards are going to happen. There isn't enough top talent fighting frequently enough to make every card a decent watch. As I mentioned in my post above, they're putting those decent cards into arenas, so not every Fight Night is Apex fodder. But some cards will be. Just accept it and cherry pick what you want to see, or don't watch at all.

But no one is actually buying tickets to see the bottom 10-15% of the UFC roster. It's not worth the companies while carrying out the task of putting those guys in front of a crowd.

[wandshogun09]

18 minutes ago, David said:

If you don't like the Apex cards, don't watch. 

Just accept it and cherry pick what you want to see, or don't watch at all.

That’s what I did on Saturday. Literally just watched the main event and skimmed the rest. There’s almost always certain fights a skip on cards. But we’re still gonna call a shite card shite. I don’t know why that’s an issue. The good cards get the praise they deserve, the Apex gets the scorn it deserves. The Apex is here to stay, and so is the apathy towards it. If you don’t like it, don’t read the threads. Just accept it and cherry pick. 

[David]

2 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

But we’re still gonna call a shite card shite. I don’t know why that’s an issue.

Who said there was an issue with calling it a shite card? I literally said that I didn't watch it. Not only that, but I'm saying that because there's a lot of fighters on the roster who aren't anywhere near the level of what we'd expect from the UFC shite cards are going to happen.

What I'm saying is that it makes absolutely zero sense to put said shite cards and shite fighters into an arena show where no one really wants to see them fight. That's what the Apex is for? Would you want to see Contender fights in an arena? Because that's what these cards are, for the most part.

Am I not explaining it right?

[Egg Shen]

you are, im just finding it hard to believe that you think the UFC is in the right for putting on cards so bad that they don't justify a live audience.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Egg Shen