Paid Members air_raid Posted April 19, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted April 19, 2021 Joes problem for me, which probably stems from him cutting his teeth in ROH in terms of widespread awareness, is that his style works best with guys he can bully/throw around, like 230lbs or smaller. He was only positioned as a real top guy in TNA when engaged in a World title feud with AJ and Chris Daniels, both X Division sized guys, and on SmackDown when he was chasing AJ again. Even in NXT where he was champion twice and there can be a broad range of shapes, about the biggest guy he did a program with was Nakamura, who’s hardly a giant. That’s not to say he didn’t have great matches with guys the dimensions of Kobashi or Lesnar, but for the week in week out stuff, he needs to be a tank in comparison to the rest of the talent pool to get the best out him, for me. His initial X Division rampage was fabulous, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted April 19, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted April 19, 2021 Someone coming across as a star is more about presentation than anything else. It's not about the size of the platform they have - it's how they perform on that platform. It can be about reach, but that's not entirely a fair metric either. As a quick wrestling example, Raven in ECW was a far bigger star than Raven in WWE (and arguably WCW). He was almost certainly earning more money and in front of more people in WWE, but he wasn't a star in the same way. He wasn't THE guy. In that way, I'd argue that Jon Moxley and Cody Rhodes are much bigger stars in AEW than they were in WWE. They were better known in WWE, and The Shield alone was bigger than AEW. But Ambrose was generally the third guy in The Shield, and less able to show what made him a star there. In AEW, he has far more star quality (especially in a sustained way). Guys that should have been bigger - I'd honestly say Bray Wyatt. I think if they'd gone down more of the cult leader/True Detective route rather than the Undertaker route, he could have been a genuine star. Big E should be a much bigger deal than he is. It's absolutely baffling. One that I think is equal-parts the wrestler and the promotion is Shinsuke Nakamura - he seems to perform to the level he's booked, for the most part. Put him in the midcard and he'll half-arse it. But when he first came out of NXT and into WWE, I think he could have been huge. As crazy as it might sound, he'd have been the guy to dethrone Lesnar for me. Whether them not pushing him like that proved them right or created the Nakamura we then got... I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted April 19, 2021 Author Share Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chris B said: One that I think is equal-parts the wrestler and the promotion is Shinsuke Nakamura - he seems to perform to the level he's booked, for the most part. Put him in the midcard and he'll half-arse it. But when he first came out of NXT and into WWE, I think he could have been huge. As crazy as it might sound, he'd have been the guy to dethrone Lesnar for me. Whether them not pushing him like that proved them right or created the Nakamura we then got... I don't know. I can only go by his WWE/NXT run, but I’m not sure I agree with your theory here. Outside of the fantastic Sami Zayn match, I can’t think of a match he’s had for the company that has been anything better than average. Even when he was NXT champion his matches for me were among the weakest on the card. I think he’s been the architect of his own downfall in WWE. He’s been given chances, but even when he won the Rumble he failed to impress, with a very disappointing series of matches against AJ Styles. I’d love to know how his run would have panned out had he made more of an effort, particularly in the matches against AJ. Edited April 19, 2021 by RedRooster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Jazzy G Posted April 19, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted April 19, 2021 I think it's the WWE style. He had amazing matches in New Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 8 hours ago, jazzygeofferz said: I think it's the WWE style. He had amazing matches in New Japan. He also didn't have to have year round singles matches in New Japan. Most of the time he could half arse his way through 8 man tags but stay over as the matches were still decent, he wouldn't get pinned and would often get the pin. He really only had to out effort in during the G1 and the odd main show he would do a singles match in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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